Other: ZEISS LWZ.3 21-100mm/T.2.9-3.9 T Announced

I think to keep it par focal adds another dimension into the mix.. also not an engineer.. but really I think if it could be done it would have for sure.. Sony have no high end zoom to protect .. and unless all the other companies are paying them not to make it.. Im sure they would have.. but maybe they are still having meetings about it.. :)
 
Maybe the "answer" is in the digital realm and not the optical realm. A camera that can zoom from full scan to center scan in-shot and at a rate controllable by the camera operator. Similar to what is now done in post when people "cut" into a 4K image to create a tighter framing.

A 6K camera that can actively zoom into the 6K image to produce varying framing in 2K. The zooming is par focal because it is a digital zoom.

Essentially what consumer cameras with a digital zoom do now, but maintaining high image quality since the image being zoomed is high resolution.


How far ( what percentage ) can you zoom into an 8K image on a 1080p timeline and still maintain 1080p quality? Obviously the answer to that question is a function of the quality of the lens being used. But let's assume the lens is the 50mm Otus.
 
I absolutely hate digital zoom and it should be consigned to the history books in my opinion.

If centre scan already looks noticeably softer I hate to think what it'll be like pushing in.

Compare it to the downsampled image from 4k/6k to 1080p and it looks like mush.

Optics are the new frontier and the new barrier to be overcome.

By the end of this year we'll have several different makers producing good quality cine lenses at accessible price points for the owner/operator which would have been unheard of a few years ago.

We have Zeiss testing the waters with a cheap Cine zoom.

All the other makers will respond to this and improve on it. At which point Zeiss will drop a mk2 which is wider and with constant aperture.

Everyone will be happy.

Lots of sentences with no proper paragraphs.

I'll stop now.
 
The trouble is you cant really develop optics much because light travels in a straight line

You can only make design choices size/range/cost

S
 
Very true.

But advances in manufacturing techniques are increasing exponentially, PLUS manufacturers have finally seen the market demand that maybe wasn't there 10 years ago. Enter the Schneider FF cine primes and Xeens and Celeres etc. And Cooke Mini S4s suddenly having e mount options. The zoom space has a lot of wiggle room to get prices down before we hit the limits of optics.
 
I'm looking forward to the fresnel tech that Nikon has been investigating to make it's way to cine glass. Cuts a vast amount of weight out of a lens.
 
Surprised we've not seen a range of glass with a built in focal reducer to hit the faster numbers. Surely it's coming.
 
Ben Scott said:
Surprised we've not seen a range of glass with a built in focal reducer to hit the faster numbers. Surely it's coming.
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If Sony keep up the smart moves they've been making lately, I think we'll see a camera out in the not-too-distant future that keeps the FZ-mount, but provides a little extra depth in the throat of the mount to allow for a speedbooster to be shimmied in there without bashing into protective glass.

Either that, of they give us a 135/Vistavision sensor, and I can finally use these bloody CZ.2s the way I wanted to from the start!
 
Ben Scott said:
Surprised we've not seen a range of glass with a built in focal reducer to hit the faster numbers. Surely it's coming.
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We have.. or kind of its called budget APSC/S35 glass.

APS 17-55 2.8 canon vs FF 24-105 canon for example

Both 77mm at the front to catch light but the one with smaller coverage has a stop more light.

Some interesting new primes with APS/S35 coverage.. mainly Samyang is jumping on that bandwagon (16/2.0) is a bargain compared to a 20/2.8 FF glass, also voigtlander does some fast glass with a small image circle that wont cover full frame

CaNikon have mainy used small chip to cut cost of glass not up its spec though eg nikkor 35 1.8 vs FF50 1.8

What we dont have is a focal reducer or doubler that swings in/out like ENG lenses.

S
 
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Ben Scott said:
Surprised we've not seen a range of glass with a built in focal reducer to hit the faster numbers. Surely it's coming.
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A lens should incorporate the "speed boosting" into its design. I completely agree with your comments about new, fast cine lenses coming, as well as your take on the market getting bigger-- thus enabling the economies of scale to price them lower. It's strange that Sony, Canon and Zeiss have all offered something new and sort of compelling, but no one wants to jump in with two feet. It might take a manufacturer like Sigma that doesn't have such a suffocatingly hierarchical culture to actually break new ground.

An 18-80mm f/2.8 for S35 would be essentially the same size as Sony's current 28-135mm. That's the lens I think most of us want. Canon's 18-80mm T4.4 lens has a great focal range, but, in my opinion, what's the point of shooting on an S35 sensor just to put a T4.4 zoom on it? You don't see many T6.0 zooms made for FF for FF cameras? I really believe Canon could have made it a T3 lens, but just like with camera tech, they're so terrified of cutting into a higher end segment that they panicked and choked the thing they loved.

What we probably won't see is an 18-80mm f/2 zoom-- for the same reason full frame zooms have been limited to 24-70 f/2.8 for ages. That's a true optical barrier in terms of acceptable size there. Sigma showed what is optically capable with an f/2 S35 zoom, but I have to admit I didn't think that was possible until they did it.

The hard part is waiting for the glass, since I need to buy something soon. (Always the story though.)
 
Ben Scott said:
I absolutely hate digital zoom and it should be consigned to the history books in my opinion.
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I don't want digital zoom to be the future, I just think it will be the future. Name the area of the craft where digital isn't becoming the future. ( tripods, maybe? ).

Possibly the future is "multi-aperture computational cameras". Or multi-lens computational zoom. Numerous tiny lenses of which the camera samples a composite. When the camera zooms in or zooms out it is actually seamlessly switching from the various focal length lenses. Sorta like what is done with "Silverlight" and the "xrez" camera system. Only in real time video instead of stills. Imagine if you had the images from 10 high resolution prime cinema lenses of varying focal lengths all aligned and shooting the same scene, all being fed to one camera and you could then computationally "zoom" in and out of the composite image. It wouldn't be digitally zooming into one organically produced image but instead digitally transitioning from multiple organic images. All the physical mechanics of a zoom lens are removed from the process.

Something along the lines of the "Light L16":

http://www.wired.com/2015/10/light-l16-camera/
 
So Sony are about to announce a G Series 18-110 f4. Likely expensive for what it is and will make the Zeiss look much better value for money.

Sony-E-mount-18-110mm-G-lens.jpg
 
great range, stabilisation, AF.. if it has semi responsive manual focussing (like the 28-135) and is about £2k this is a total winner to be honest.. even if it falls apart after three years like most plastic AF lenses do.

If they come in under £3g it is a total kick up the ar$e to Canon

in HD it is probably corrected too in the right profiles/firmware and will work with future sony AF which will only improve.

Probably also talks to the FS7/5 handles too (if you still have them)

S
 
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I hope it has the Sony GM characteristics and not the current 28-135. I thought that lens looked meh and clinical compared to the GM zooms that they just released.
 
Chris Langer said:
I hope it has the Sony GM characteristics and not the current 28-135. I thought that lens looked meh and clinical compared to the GM zooms that they just released.
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Despite the bashing in this thread I thought the Zeiss lens looked fantastic in this piece below and the FS7 was not embarrassed by loftier company either. I rather doubt the Sony 18-100 will look anything like as good and probably not much better than the 18-200 PZ all said and done.

https://vimeo.com/157162352

 
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