ZazaJib - It's a slider, it's a jib...It's both at the same time!

ZazaCast

ZazaCast

Major Contributor
So, ever since building my very first ZazaSlider, I wanted to be able to use it as a mini-jib too. We all tried using two heads (one for the rail and one on the carriage), but this was just not practical and really didn't work like a jib should. I began my quest for a full-functioning solution that would allow me to ADD-ON to the ZazaSlider turning it into a mini-jib, use the fewest parts as possible, keep it light weight, support any camera to about 5-7lbs., set-up quick and easy...and still allow me to slide from the tripod or be able to pop it off quick for low sliding shots. It will work with ANY igus-based slider that uses the 16-60mm rail (old Kessler, Glidetrack and any of the other hundreds out there).

After about 7 prototypes and some pretty heavy stress tests, I'm impressed with this rig so far!

Best,
-Zaza :happy:
 
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Zaza, that is a pretty neat slider/jib. Right now I am using both and they are a pain to carry in the woods. I can see how a combined unit might work. One suggestion and this might not work due to cost, but I think you could really cut down on the weight by cutting out dead weight in the Igus rail. We all know the rail is strong and probably overkill for most cameras. Didn't Igus have a lightweight rail with cutouts in the Europe catalog?
 
Mark Williams said:
Zaza, that is a pretty neat slider/jib. Right now I am using both and they are a pain to carry in the woods. I can see how a combined unit might work. One suggestion and this might not work due to cost, but I think you could really cut down on the weight by cutting out dead weight in the Igus rail. We all know the rail is strong and probably overkill for most cameras. Didn't Igus have a lightweight rail with cutouts in the Europe catalog?
Click to expand...

Yes, thanks Mark, I have to check again, but right now igus US doesn't offer that cut-out rail... great idea. There are only 3 add-on parts that turn the ZazaSlider into a ZazaJib & they are light (but strong).
I would want this all to fit in a single bag for transport. I'm putting a 1000mm rail in for more tests now...
 
Zaza, have you thought about having the pivot point connection to the rail attach to the bottom of the rail instead of top & bottom to allow a full slide along the entire length of the rail?
 
Edit based on newly added video: Meandering around the room type of shots are done with a Steadicam rig in my world, which gives you more freedom of camera placement as it is not constrained to one circle of movement. A jib is severely limited in such situations.

My comments are based on boom movements, the traditional use of jibs. I've never used a jib where a Steadicam could do the shot. To each their own.

Original post:

What advantages do you see to a jib/boom as opposed to a vertical slide? For the size of moves that you are doing, I think a counterbalanced vertical slide would be able to accomplish the same shots much easier.
 
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Mark Williams said:
Zaza, have you thought about having the pivot point connection to the rail attach to the bottom of the rail instead of top & bottom to allow a full slide along the entire length of the rail?
Click to expand...
I did, but with the clamp I have, you can adjust the jib to be almost any length you want and nothing ever touches the round of the rail, so there's no chance of banging it up. If you attached directly to the rail, you would have to have set points for length.
 
nothing said:
What advantages do you see to a jib/boom as opposed to a vertical slide? For the size of moves that you are doing, I think a counterbalanced vertical slide would be able to accomplish the same shots much easier.
Click to expand...

A sliding shot and a jib or crane shot at two completely different movements. You can already do a vertical slide with the ZazaSlider either on the ground, on a table or on a tripod.
Think of a rising, panning shot...or you want to get a shot over a crowd and need to get the camera up over 6' and control the tilt...shots like that can't be done on a slider alone.
 
ZazaCast said:
A sliding shot and a jib or crane shot at two completely different movements. You can already do a vertical slide with the ZazaSlider either on the ground, on a table or on a tripod.
Think of a rising, panning shot...or you want to get a shot over a crowd and need to get the camera up over 6' and control the tilt...shots like that can't be done on a slider alone.
Click to expand...

Disagree completely, but new toys are fun anyway, huh?

I work with big cranes, dollies and sliders every day. I can tell you that a crane/jib is only necessary when the height reaches higher than the Fisher or Chapman dolly's arm (the equivalent of an indy's vertical slider) can reach. Anything under that and the camera is better served just booming with the dolly's arm - easier, faster, less labor intensive and with a smaller footprint. But if you are on a crane that big and want to operate the shot, you better have a remote head.

Put a fluid head on a vertical slider and you can achieve 99.9% of the shots that a small jib can do, with half the effort and half the manpower.

I'd love to see what shots you are talking about, because I can't picture anything that a jib that small can do that a vertical slider can't do easier except maybe looking straight down at the ground.
 
nothing said:
Disagree completely, but new toys are fun anyway, huh?

I work with big cranes, dollies and sliders every day. I can tell you that a crane/jib is only necessary when the height reaches higher than the Fisher or Chapman dolly's arm (the equivalent of an indy's vertical slider) can reach. Anything under that and the camera is better served just booming with the dolly's arm - easier, faster, less labor intensive and with a smaller footprint. But if you are on a crane that big and want to operate the shot, you better have a remote head.

Put a fluid head on a vertical slider and you can achieve 99.9% of the shots that a small jib can do, with half the effort and half the manpower.

I'd love to see what shots you are talking about, because I can't picture anything that a jib that small can do that a vertical slider can't do easier except maybe looking straight down at the ground.
Click to expand...


Having tried to do that with a vertical slider myself I don't get where you find it easier? With a balanced small arm like this, given the weights at the end, you are able to perform a smooth transition between heights given the inertia of the system. With a slider in the vertical position, what is keeping the fluid head at a specific height? Then if you want to movie it, you've got the weight of the camera always working against you. This system would be very balanced.

Now, I personally prefer my 15 foot crane as the minimum I would use as I really want to get the camera up higher myself, that said, I can certainly see the benefit in this system for very small crane like shots. It just makes the shot easier and the movements much smoother in the vertical position.
 
Rick Burnett said:
With a slider in the vertical position, what is keeping the fluid head at a specific height?
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Vertical sliders can, and should, use counterweights as well. A pulley or two, some rope, and ballast of your choice and the camera will stay whereever you put it and move smoothly to any height. Smaller footprint, easier setup, and one man operation including tilts and pans.
 
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nothing said:
Vertical sliders can, and should, use counterweights as well.
Click to expand...

This particular slider is designed to be very cost friendly and most of the sliders I've seen with counterbalance are not very cost friendly. For vertical movements I would much rather use this solution than try and figure out how to add counterbalance to the Igus slider.
 
Video?
popcorn.gif
 
Hmmm. Nice job Z. This gives me an idea... I remember when i ordered my Igus rail they told me they came in lengths up to 3 meters! now THAT would be a heck of a slider-jib combo.
Back to your construction- Looks nicely made.
I have the kessler 6', or is it 8'? I don't know, but I don't find that I use it that often because the arc is so tight and the range is so small. I prefer my 19' crane much more.
Although, having something that kills two birds with one stone and reduces the gear by a little bit is appealing, I don't think I would buy one, even if it was really cheap. Like $50. I bet some people would, for the right $$.
I have had a mind to build something like the chapman dolly boom arm and similar rigs that move the camera straight up and down, but that's a tricky one!
Good job.

EDIT- Ok looking closer I do have a suggestion. Being the sound guy I am, this will ultimately, some day, produce squeaks and sounds from the pivot points. You either need nylon bushings or bearings in those spots. Bearings are the best but most expensive.
 
nothing said:
Disagree completely, but new toys are fun anyway, huh?

I work with big cranes, dollies and sliders every day. I can tell you that a crane/jib is only necessary when the height reaches higher than the Fisher or Chapman dolly's arm (the equivalent of an indy's vertical slider) can reach. Anything under that and the camera is better served just booming with the dolly's arm - easier, faster, less labor intensive and with a smaller footprint. But if you are on a crane that big and want to operate the shot, you better have a remote head.

Put a fluid head on a vertical slider and you can achieve 99.9% of the shots that a small jib can do, with half the effort and half the manpower.

I'd love to see what shots you are talking about, because I can't picture anything that a jib that small can do that a vertical slider can't do easier except maybe looking straight down at the ground.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine a Chapman dollying, booming, panning, and tilting being a one man job...
 
Kholi said:
I can't imagine a Chapman dollying, booming, panning, and tilting being a one man job...
Click to expand...

Never said it was.

What I did say was that doing a shot with a dolly is less labor intensive than a crane.
 
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nothing said:
Vertical sliders can, and should, use counterweights as well. A pulley or two, some rope, and ballast of your choice and the camera will stay whereever you put it and move smoothly to any height. Smaller footprint, easier setup, and one man operation including tilts and pans.
Click to expand...

Misread what you were responding to here, then.
The statement that doing a dolly shot is less intensive than a crane is kind of a given...?
 
I'm new to this forum I admit, but it seems to me we're comparing apples and oranges here. As an independent (read broke) film maker, I can't afford Chapman dollies... not even if I rent them. It may be easier to use the best equipment money can buy to get things done, but I thought this was a DIY forum??? It seems to me Zaza's solution might be a good idea for someone who works by themselves and doesn't have a crew, or an unlimited budget. I would think that people like me who are already using sliders instead of full dolly systems might be able to do some creative things with a jib. Let's not forget a jib isn't a crane. It's meant for much tighter quarters. That's why they exist in the first place. I'm happy for the people out there that have the opportunity to work with Chapman Dollies and 15ft and 18ft cranes, but I don't have that kind of money. I'd be very interested in something like this, and I won't insult Zaza with a ridiculous number like $50... the rail alone is worth 3 times that. I would like to know what something like this might cost. I've seen Jr. Jibs for as much as $1000 and you can't slide with them.
 
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