CAMCORDERS: Z200 Surfing Footage

Doug Jensen

Doug Jensen

Carbonite Member
I went out to a beach last month to test some AF settings on birds in flight. When I didn't see any birds, I shot some surfers instead to pass the time.

 
NorBro said:
good stuff, how many ollies @2 minutes did you see that day? 🏄‍♂️🏄‍♀️
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I saw a few ollies, but I think that's the only one that made the cut. I have so much footage I could have put together a 30 minute video if I thought people would watch it. I didn't talk to any of the surfers, so the odds that they find this video and watch themeselves is pretty small. If I had spoken to them I would have posted everything that looked good. I recorded some pretty good rides, but in slow-mo they take sooooooo long to happen. I just mostly went for the wipe outs, which I find most interesting. :)
 
You're welcome. Got a couple of other videos in the wings, if I can find time to finish them. One is mostly birds in flight. Amazing how well the camera is suited for that subject matter. The AI focusing is truly amazing.
 
I noticed your "Liam" video on YouTube today. Really nice looking colors, skin tones and highlights. I would like to ask how much you needed to play with the contrast curve in Resolve to get the look you wanted? Did you have to pull the highlights down or do very much to get the skin tones to pop? When I had the camera is seemed S-Cinetone had brighter highlights than the rec709 setting as well as having the knee setting disabled. Your videos have such nice controlled highlights yet the camera did not have much in the menu choices for tone curve adjustment. In filming white objects outdoors I found I wanted to stop down to expose for the highlights which created challenges on the low end. Without much to change in the menu it was up to post corrections.

For some reason I am having a difficult time pulling the trigger on the purchase :(
 
Thanks for the comments. To be honest, I can't remember how much grading I did to the Liam footage. I shot it clear back the day after Thanksgiving, and then I did the grading and editing in about two hours that same evening so that I could send it to family. It was really just intended to be "home movies". It wasn't until only a couple of days ago that I decided to go ahead and post it publicly. I'd have to open the Resolve project file to refresh my memory as to how much, and what changes, I made to each shot.

If I'm going to do that, here's a better idea: If you want to pick a couple of shots from the video, I will upload ungraded and graded versions of both clips to a dropbox. You pick the two shots you want to examine. Of course, even the ungraded version isn't pure S-Cinetone. My DOUG#4 scene file is based on S-Cinetone, but it's not S-Cinetone anymore when I'm shooting. So, go ahead choose a couple of shots and I'll send you a link.

 
Hey Doug,

Thank you very much for your kind offer. Sounds great. How about 1:03 by the tipped bucket, 1:05 running towards the camera and 1:57 standing in front of the dune. Thanks!
 
Thanks Doug! This really helps. When I had the NX800 I was primarily focusing on out of the camera images as I will be using the cameras in a live stream situation some of the time.

The files have a lot of headroom. In a shoot & edit situation the images are easy to work with and get a great look straight away. I am intrigued with the LUT approach though as I would like to have the cake and eat it too. :) The SOOC images do need some help with the tone curve imho. Color control is great in-camera as the menu options are excellent. But I would like to dial out some of the black crush and reign in highlights in real time. Could be tweaker's paradise or a mess! The way I see it, the LUT scene file is a chance to execute some post work on-the-job. Which might be quite an edge if it performs well. Thanks again!
 
Bassman2003 said:
The SOOC images do need some help with the tone curve imho.
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Yeah, unfortunately Sony's philosophy today (and they aren't the only ones) with all their new cameras is to provide fewer and fewer paint menus. We live in world where people don't want to be bothered with details anymore. They want fast and simple. So,because our paint menus have been taken away, it has become impossible to get a look straight out of any camera that looks good enough for my taste. I've always said that everything can be improved upon in post, but that is never more true than it is today. Grading used to be an option, but now it is a requirement for anyone who really wants to squeeze as much as they can out of their footage. Thank god we have Resolve and that it is fast, affordable, and easy to use, or we'd be up a creek.

As for your dream to find a LUT that will give you the final look you want right onboard the camera, I won't say it is impossible, but I have yet to see it.
 
My thought was to generate a custom LUT that only had tone curve adjustments. Nothing crazy, just some low end lifting and high end lowering in key places. I could look at the curve used for grading as starting place. Make a bunch of variations and load them all in the camera and see which ones I like. Narrow it down and make one that I like that is an improvement over just straight 709 or S-Cinetone. Once it is done, it is done. Maybe it would be useful to have a bright sun LUT and in indoor LUT but either way, not too difficult to make if it improves your SOOC image.

Then you have the option to go with your your LUT scene file or a 709 scene file if grading is part of the process. I can't say how great it is before knowing how the footage looks and holds up, but it is revolutionary.
 
Bassman2003 said:
Thanks Doug! This really helps. When I had the NX800 I was primarily focusing on out of the camera images as I will be using the cameras in a live stream situation some of the time.

The files have a lot of headroom. In a shoot & edit situation the images are easy to work with and get a great look straight away. I am intrigued with the LUT approach though as I would like to have the cake and eat it too. :) The SOOC images do need some help with the tone curve imho. Color control is great in-camera as the menu options are excellent. But I would like to dial out some of the black crush and reign in highlights in real time. Could be tweaker's paradise or a mess! The way I see it, the LUT scene file is a chance to execute some post work on-the-job. Which might be quite an edge if it performs well. Thanks again!
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It is for the reasons you mentioned that I have brewed my own 3D LUT to use in the unusual '"Custom LUT Mode" that Sony is including in a number of its newer cameras. Including the Z200.

A lot of clients are used to the traditional "ARRI look" and still want something that looks similar to that traditional ARRI 709 "Look". What I have attempted to conjure up here is a similar to ARRI 709 look. But in a LUT that can be used successfully in the Sony cameras offering this "Custom LUT Mode" capability.

Below is a video with three sample ungraded clips, followed by the same three clips but with Resolve's CST (Color Space Transform) applied to them. The final three clips are again the same clips, but they now have my new "FX6: CYVFX6_Custom_SLog-3_Arrilike_709" LUT applied. Obviously the color tonality is quite different, but that is a subjective decision based on my interpretation of ARRI's LOG to 709 "look". Importantly, should be watched on a known 709 calibrated monitor, screen or whatever!

Some may like, some may hate, looks are such a subjective topic, but all comments welcome. :)

Chris Young

https://sonycine.com/articles/painting-the-fx6-s-output-in-custom-mode-using-luts/

 
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Thanks for the links and video Chris! While the color might be a little different between the two picnic scenes, the overall look and gamma is pretty similar. For this application with the Z200 camera, that would be my main goal. Establish a baseline corrected look with raised shadows and controlled highlights even in bright sun then deal with color through the matrix and multi-matrix. I would guess that the core 709 or S-Cinetone colors would not be too difficult to find or build in a LUT.

I am still confused about where the camera will sit with regards to base ISO/gain in custom mode? In Alister's video it seems to be at the low base ISO but I thought using LUTs brought the camera up to ISO 1600?
 
Bassman2003 said:
Thanks for the links and video Chris! While the color might be a little different between the two picnic scenes, the overall look and gamma is pretty similar. For this application with the Z200 camera, that would be my main goal. Establish a baseline corrected look with raised shadows and controlled highlights even in bright sun then deal with color through the matrix and multi-matrix. I would guess that the core 709 or S-Cinetone colors would not be too difficult to find or build in a LUT.

I am still confused about where the camera will sit with regards to base ISO/gain in custom mode? In Alister's video it seems to be at the low base ISO but I thought using LUTs brought the camera up to ISO 1600?
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I would imagine that the Z200 would work in much the same way as the FX6. Doug J should be able to confirm if this is correct or not.

Under the "User Base Look" the Custom LUT setting should work with the following ISO settings according to the manual. If I've interpreted the manual correctly.

You import your LUTs for use under the "User Base Look" setting in the Paint menu. These imported LUTs will become additions in that menu, added to the list of the Preset Base Looks which are already baked into the camera. And being S-LOG LUTs they will use the High Base settings. Which as you said is 1600.

High Base [SDR(BT.709)] and [HDR(HLG)] (This includes S-LOG3 imported LUTs.)
1600
3200
6400

If you want to build a LUT off the core of the S-Cinetone or Sony 709 'look' that should be easy enough. I would just shoot some scenes typical of what you want to cover. Shoot in S-Log3. Import the clips into Resolve. Then I would apply the correct S-Log3 CST to a node and then grade to taste and then export your final graded LUT for use in the camera.

Chris Young
 
cyvideo said:
Doug J should be able to confirm if this is correct or not.
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I've already posted on this topic several times in other threads. I've lost interest in discussing it further since it is not a way of using the camera I use myself or endorse. If someone wants to know my thoughts, checkout the other threads. :)
 
Doug Jensen said:
I've already posted on this topic several times in other threads. I've lost interest in discussing it further since it is not a way of using the camera I use myself or endorse. If someone wants to know my thoughts, checkout the other threads. :)
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Fair enough.

Chis Young
 
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