GH4 XLR audio solution for the GH4

Michael Erlewine

Michael Erlewine

Well-known member
I am not going for the YAGH interface for the GH4, so that I can have XLR inputs. Too much money.

I imagine the audio for the GH4 must be similar to that needed for the GH3. Correct? I don't know, because I have not had a GH? until now.

Please suggest what would be a usable, but not too costly, way to add XLR inputs for the GH4 audio, if there is one.
 
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Michael Erlewine said:
I am not going for the YAGH interface for the GH4, so that I can have XLR inputs. Too much money.

I imagine the audio for the GH4 must be similar to that needed for the GH3. Correct? I don't know, because I have not had a GH? until now.

Please suggest what would be a usable, but not too costly, way to add XLR inputs for the GH4 audio, if there is one.
Click to expand...

The YAGH to my understanding has its own built-in preamps that bypass the regular preamps on the camera, hopefully in the process providing higher audio quality. That being the case, any third party portable recorder that accepts XLR inputs and has an output to camera will work but without providing the higher quality. There is also the Tascam DR-60D which has a lot of functionality but be careful of battery usage if you need phantom power.
 
The GH3 has pretty good preamps but really depends how crucial audio is for the project you are working on. I've had goos success with Sennheiser wireless systems as well as the Rode VideoMic Pro recording internal. I shot this with just the Rode VideoMic Pro on a GH3

https://vimeo.com/54756641

The same audio devices with XLR preamps like the Juicedlink and Beachtek that have been used for other DSLR's or the GH line will work for the GH4 too.
 
I use the Zoom H4n with my GH2. I imagine it'd be just as effective on the GH4.

I record 24/48 to the internal card, as well as send it out to the camera, giving me two copies of the soundtrack.
 
Erik Naso said:
The GH3 has pretty good preamps but really depends how crucial audio is for the project you are working on. I've had goos success with Sennheiser wireless systems as well as the Rode VideoMic Pro recording internal. I shot this with just the Rode VideoMic Pro on a GH3


The same audio devices with XLR preamps like the Juicedlink and Beachtek that have been used for other DSLR's or the GH line will work for the GH4 too.
Click to expand...

The GH4 also has very decent in-camera preamps. And Juicedlink stuff is excellent.
 
This might work: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...tiveASIN=B007534LFK&linkCode=as2&tag=dfn0c-20 for <$40.
Article re hack here: http://www.dslrfilmnoob.com/2012/11/22/irig-pre-dslr-audio-hack/



Michael Erlewine said:
I am not going for the YAGH interface for the GH4, so that I can have XLR inputs. Too much money.

I imagine the audio for the GH4 must be similar to that needed for the GH3. Correct? I don't know, because I have not had a GH? until now.

Please suggest what would be a usable, but not too costly, way to add XLR inputs for the GH4 audio, if there is one.
Click to expand...
 
My question about the YAGH has to do with preamps. It is not good enough for me to hope that the YAGH contains its own preamps that are better than those in the camera. For all we know, it keys off the existing preamps just like Beachtek and JuicedLink units do. If in fact there are new and superior preamps in the YAGH, i would think about purchasing one. However, I just plugged in a JuicedLink unit I have around here and it seems to work well enough.

Does anyone know or plan to find out if there are superior preamps in the YAGH?
 
Michael Erlewine said:
Does anyone know or plan to find out if there are superior preamps in the YAGH?
Click to expand...

You'll have to wait until it ships. But in all honesty, if the preamps are much better (which I am willing to bet on) and the audio is sent directly to the video file (which I am willing to bet on), getting the box just for that would not make a lot of sense. You're better off doing dual audio with a good external recorder.

Just my $0.02
 
Don't the JuicedLink boxes have pre-amps that are supposed to be superior to those built-in on most cameras and external recorders? I seem to recall that the idea there was that you turn the levels up on the JuicedLink and down to a minimum on the camera itself to reduce the noise generated by the camera.

If you just need one XLR input and don't mind the camera's pre-amp, then check out this recent thread: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?323064-Hosa-XVM-101F-amp-Audio-Technica-AT875R-working!
 
Shenan said:
Don't the JuicedLink boxes have pre-amps that are supposed to be superior to those built-in on most cameras and external recorders?
Click to expand...

They do have quiet preamps, but when plugging into the mic in jack, the signal is still passing through the internal camera's preamp.
 
stoneinapond said:
They do have quiet preamps, but when plugging into the mic in jack, the signal is still passing through the internal camera's preamp.
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Sure, but wouldn't the idea of turning the audio level down on the camera and up on the pre-amp improve the noise to a certain extent because then the level of the clean input relative to the level of the noise is greater?
 
Shenan said:
Sure, but wouldn't the idea of turning the audio level down on the camera and up on the pre-amp improve the noise to a certain extent because then the level of the clean input relative to the level of the noise is greater?
Click to expand...

Yes, you are correct - didn't mean to discount that part.
 
Erik Naso said:
The GH3 has pretty good preamps but really depends how crucial audio is for the project you are working on. I've had goos success with Sennheiser wireless systems as well as the Rode VideoMic Pro recording internal. I shot this with just the Rode VideoMic Pro on a GH3

https://vimeo.com/54756641

The same audio devices with XLR preamps like the Juicedlink and Beachtek that have been used for other DSLR's or the GH line will work for the GH4 too.
Click to expand...

Did you use a dead cat on your Rode? I just got that mic and it seemed to be picking up a lot of wind noise even it was not what I'd call windy outside. Any other tips for how to set up that mic and it's use? I think your audio sounds pretty good.
 
Michael Erlewine said:
Does anyone know or plan to find out if there are superior preamps in the YAGH?
Click to expand...

The YAGH might have better preamps than the camera, but I don't believe for a minute that they are as good as what you'll find in a decent field mixer like the SD MixPre-D, for half the price. And you can find MixPre-Ds on the used market for even less. That mixer is just my favorite, but there are other good mixers out there for considerably less. And there are specialty mixer/recorders like the TasCam DR-60D that are much, much better than the in-camera audio and cost 10% of the YAGH.

Even if the preamps are as good, which is highly doubtful, the YAGH still won't give you the flexibility, excellent metering, excellent limiters, or ease of use with your camera that a MixPre-D does. On top of all that, the MixPre-D will let you send a scratch track to the camera at mic level, and send balanced line level out to a recorder of your choice. Even a Tascam DR-40 recorder will sound better than the camera.

Audio is an afterthought in nearly every camera out there. It exists solely to help sell a stills camera that can also do video. If they spend $3 on the audio circuits, I'll be amazed. The vast majority of the R&D has to go into the imaging chip, the processing, the viewfinder, flip out screen, ergonomics, and all the support stuff. Audio is nothing in comparison.

Is the audio from the camera good enough for what you want? IDK, try it and see. But if it's not, it's easy enough to run a separate audio system and feed a scratch track to the camera to make syncing easy. For much, much less than the cost of the YAGH.

Now, there are some good reasons to go with the YAGH. But if all you want is XLR inputs, there are many better and certainly much cheaper ways to get that, and get superior audio performance in the bargain.
 
Like most here, I'd say just get a good quality Beachtek or Juiced Link and record audio in camera. The H4n is good if you need to record more than two channels of audio but if not, you will get better audio out of a standard Beachtek or similar.
 
I purchased a used Sound Devices MixPre off Ebay for $500 and got a -25dB Pad Attenuator cable ( http://amzn.com/B004UTQUBA ) to connect its line level Tape Out output to the Mic Input on my GH3 (and now my GH4) and I've had really great results. The MixPre has super clean pre-amps, limiters, and can phantom power my Rode NTG-3 shotgun mic for a few hours on its two AA batteries. I can also mix two channels (1. a shotgun 2. a wireless lav) into stereo. And the best part is no more dual audio post syncing.
 
Working with some audio test files that Benjobe gave me access to, it appears that the GH4 likes an audio signal closer to a true MIC level -50 dB. ( the GH3 works best with a stronger -20 dB audio signal )

Measuring the noise-floor the GH4 scored the same as the GH3 and my HMC-150 camera, which is -63 dB RMS. This is good for a DSLR camera, but recorders like the Sony PCM-M10 or Tascam DR-40 show a noise floor of -75 dB RMS under the same conditions.

Also, it appears that the dang AGC demon can be killed off in the GH4 by turning off the audio limiter in your camera settings.

So it definitely looks like Panasonic has spent some time revamping the audio in the GH4 ( i.e. stronger preamps, ability to turn off AGC and the limiter ), which is a big plus in my books.

I am curious if recording audio through the YAGH interface will improve the noise-floor compared to feeding a good mic level audio to the camera directly. It would be easier to justify the YAGH if the audio noise-floor was 10 - 15 dB quieter, which would make fixing weak audio much easier without having to deal with the self-noise of the camera. I am hoping I can rent one of these beasts to try it out.
 
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