C100: XC10 or C100, advice needed.

N

Networker

Well-known member
Need some advice as to which camera to get.

June 1st this year will be my first day as a retired person. As a thank you to myself for years of ensuring that our IT systems keep running as best they can, I will get myself a new camera.

And I was all set on the (fairly) new Canon XC10. I've watched the footage, read the specs and for the most part found solutions - I think - to the most glaring shortcomings it has.

One great advantage it has is that it looks like a normal still camera. You can walk around and nobody cares. You're just taking pictures. This is important if you want to pass youself off as a tourist at DisneyWorld.

I'm a hobbyist. One man band. What I do is mostly family stuff. Today I taped a little league game, and I'm in pre-production on a documentary about a relative and his Viet Nam experience. Next up is a documentary about a friend who shows dogs. I cut in Premiere Pro 5.5. (Got the suite on a half-off sale they had a few years back. I don't think I can ever justify signing up for their $50.- a month deal, so I'll keep my PP 5.5 until I'm forced to do something else.)

So, looking at prices and stuff at B&H I see to my surprise that if I add $500.- to my budget I can get a C100. ($500.- more will get me the upgrade to Dual Pixel AF.) So now I'm seriously in doubt about what to do. 4k 8 bit 4.2.2 with a 1" sensor vs 1080 4.2.0 Super35 sensor. Apparently there is no upgrade path to 4k for the C100 but yet another $500.- will get me an external recorder that will allow 10 bit 4.2.2 recordings. (I'm not sure if the C100 can deliver 10 bit color.)

I don't know how much 4k really means at this time, but I'm planing on keeping this camera for a good while and I don't want to lock myself into HD if the world is moving to 4k.

Sound is another issue. With the XC10 it'll be dual sound, and my bright blue Porta-Brace with the wireless reciever, Mix-Pre D, Fostex FR2-LE and assorted wires carried around my waist pretty much blows my "Tourist in DisneyWorld" cover to bits.

The C100 has EF mounts and I already have a couple of cheap lenses that will do to start with. Interchangeable lenses is a pretty substantial advantage.

So, which one to get? I think I'm still leaning towards the XC10, but I'm not at all sure.

Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated.
 
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First off, congrats on the retirement... As far as discrete cameras have you considered the Blackmagic Pocket? They can be had for 600-700 used ($999 new) and they shoot ProRes/DNxHD 4:2:2 to SD cards AS WELL as compressed RAW. 13 stops of DR... In any case, as someone here mentioned to me, I would wait out NAB this week and see what drops there (and what price drops may come)...
 
I have both, C100 is my main cam and XC10 is B-cam. While I like the XC10 sometimes I really wish I had gotten another C100 instead. I get frustrated trying to manually focus with the XC10, feels like the focus ring is super slow even on the fastest speed (it has 3 speed settings for focus) so I end up using push AF a lot where it takes me no time to grab focus on the C100. Then there is a lack of programmable buttons which are abundant on the C100. I'm not sure if you will be able to edit the XC10 4K footage in Premiere Pro 5.5, many complaints early on centered around lack of support with older versions of NLEs.
 
... Same with me, one C100 Mk II and the "old" C100 with DPAF-Upgrade - and XC10 as a B-Cam.

XC10 sits on a Ronin-M during jobs all day (eventfilms / Weddings) and is great for that purpose.

While I like the C100s for jobs for all the reasons you mentioned, I decided to take only the XC10 to a Winter-holiday in Switzerland for a Test-run.

For private / Tourist purpose the XC10 has a lot of advantages: Small, VERY good stabilizer built in, 4K and timelapse for landscapes, Great codec an a handy Lens with a Big reach. Downside: Not so good Lowlight and Audio Preamps... Both for me not a big concern when I am a Tourist. Just a small Sennheiser Micro on the hotshoe an I'm ready to go.

I would never take a big C100 (with several lenses....) with me, if I'm somewhere crawling on a mountain as a Tourist...

I suggest: Go to a store an get your hands on both cams ...

@homerc67: You're right, manual focussing is a pain, but I rely on focussing just by tapping on the screen... Works well (as Long as you don't use the loupe... ;)
 
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Yes you need to double check your post workflow as you may have issues with Premiere Pro 5.5. Does Adobe offer a senior discount? Thought about signing up for a class at your local university to qualify for a student discount? I have a 70+ year old friend doing just that.

Good luck!

Dave
 
Why not download and learn DaVinci Resolve? The Lite version is free and supports UHD. Editing is similar to PPro and there is plenty of training around. You'll get up to speed in no time.

The XC10 gets a new firmware in June that gives a 2x AF speed boost with maintained precision (according to Canon).

I think the C100s are great cameras, but the way you describe your needs, I'd also say XC10 seems to be a closer fit. It's also cheap enough that your can try it and sell it again if you grow out of it.
 
maybe the sony rx10 mk2 or the newer rx10mk3 should also be included in the mix?

that said, waiting for nab seems like the most prudent immediate action.

ymmv

be well.

rob
smalltalk.productions
 
Ok, lots of great advice here, so first of all: Thank you all for helping out a semi-lost soul.

I have looked at the BMD Pocet Camera. I may end up with one eventually, but I much prefer the Canon colors and skin-tones. However; one of the things I'm planning on learning once retirement kicks in is color grading/correcting. And the RAW format is definetly a help here.

Also, since it will be June before I do anything, NAB will be well and truly over and we should know all about what's available and at what prices. We should also have a date on the XC10 upgrade. I'm assuming this is a firmware upgrade and not a new model.

I believe the 4k workflow problems are resolved. There are at least two different programs that will transcode the 4k files into something PP can handle. Even the CS5.5 version. I haven't tried this myself yet.

I am aware of the single app subscription from Adobe, but I kind of resent the concept even though I fully understand why Adobe did this. Twenty years in IT teaches you a thing or two about software and licenses and upgrades.

I have already tried out Resolve, got it on my computer right now and I have been looking at training materials for it. I mentioned above that I wanted to learn color grading/correction so learning to edit with Resolve could potentially save a bit of time. A small problem might be the rest of the CS5.5 suite. I've never used AE, Mocha, or Photoshop, but they are all programs I'd like to learn once I have some more time. I don't know how well they play with Resolve.

As for the RX10... I swore off anything from Sony when they saw fit to put a root-kit on my computer. Haven't owned anything with a Sony label since. (And since my wife is the only one who is allowed to tell me what to do; I don't own anything with an Apple label either.)

All in all, for now I'm strongly favoring the XC10. As Der Filmer pointed out; "Small, VERY good stabilizer built in, 4K and timelapse for landscapes, Great codec an a handy Lens with a Big reach." I do dual sound anyway, and if I really need to be stealthy I can use my Zoom H2 as a digital recorder with my Mix-Pre D and get very good results. Then I use the built in sound for synchonizing and I'm good to go. The low-light perfomance - or lack of same - I think I can work around.

So unless something happens a NAB that either forces the C100 price downwards, or some other XC10-like camera is introduced, it looks like I'll get an XC10 this June.

Thank you all for your help, it is much appreciated. And if you find I've skipped something important, or failed to look at something, please let me know. (Or if you just know a great joke you haven't had the opportunity to tell it yet; go for it :)
 
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I have a 5D3 and a C100. I recently got back from Thailand where I brought the 5D3 to do some basic home video stuff along with photos. It's really not a good camera for that stuff if you are run and gunning.... should have just brought my HV-40..... ha!

The XC10 looks like a nightmare. I can't imagine menu diving every time I need to change the ISO or aperture, on the 5D3 it takes seconds, and I do it constantly. The C100 is even friendlier in that regard. Also, if you are run and gunning it, you really need auto focus, otherwise everything is out of focus unless you set up each shot with a tripod or monopod and a well thought out strategy for each take. The C100 is almost as small as the 5D3 if you take off the top handle. Get the C100, you will be so much happier in the end. The C100 is a camera you can grow into and not be disappointed, as much as you grow it will grow.
 
No shortage of resentment towards Adobe for forcing the subscription model down our throats. Had to give in because FCP7 is end of life, and I hate AVID and X...
 
Beware that the C100 with various lenses can weigh quite a bit. I have one and I really like it but at times I wish for a smaller run and gun camera like the XC10. If the joystick and menu system is like the C100's then I can't see that it would be a problem using it. I use it more than the buttons on the body.
 
thpriest said:
Beware that the C100 with various lenses can weigh quite a bit. I have one and I really like it but at times I wish for a smaller run and gun camera like the XC10. If the joystick and menu system is like the C100's then I can't see that it would be a problem using it. I use it more than the buttons on the body.
Click to expand...

It seems like about every other review talks about how difficult the XC10 is to use, how you can't do this and you can't do that, and then the other half keeps saying it's easy to do, program the buttons to your liking, put the iso adjustment on the wheel and off you go.

Of course then there is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGA3CgNk1sY

I think that pretty much disproves the negative reviews quite eloquently. But I'm a pilot so maybe I'm just taken by the subject :)
 
i wish the XC10's lens was parfocal.

i keep leaning towards the sony rx10mk2 or newer mk3.

then again, the 1" chip look is different than the super35.

be well.

rob
 
Well it sounds like you already made up you mind. I'm just coming from the perspective of starting off with a XH-A1, 5D3 and the C100. On the 5D3 I screwed up a bunch of shots because of going back and forth between photos and video an forgot to go change all the setting in the menu. The C100 is much easier to use as far as programmable buttons etc. so, forgive me if I appear somewhat partial to the ease of use features vs a small 4K camera, it's just been my jaded experience. Actually for run and gun I like my HV-40 super light and fool proof fantastic image as good as the XH-A1, but no 4K. Personally I have no use for 4K but you may.

I think the XC10 would be a great camera to add to your arsenal if you already had a C100. I just think starting off with the XC10 you will out grow the limitations as your skill in the art of film making progresses. Of course I'm projecting my own experience on to you, I don't do much run and gunning, but when I do my footage is shaken.

You mentioned both run and gun type stuff as well as Documentary work. For simple run and gun the XC10 makes sense, but when you mention documentary work magically the C100 popped into my mind........ I don't know why.
 
Nope, not at all. My mind will not be made up until much closer to June. I am still waiting for any news out of NAB that might sway my thinking, or that will make prices drop on either of these two cameras.

The lack of 4k is a concern for me. I don't need it now, but I still have my DVX100B because I didn't think I'd need HD either. It's a lovely camera, a joy to work with, and with the Pelican case it is worth about two hundred bucks if the buyer has a use for the Pelican. I'm not making that mistake again.

When I bought it I promised myself that I would not upgrade it until my skills were such that the camera held me back. I don't think my skills are there yet, but looking at my capture files for the last year I noticed that about 70% of them were shot on my Canon HV-20. It's time to stop being stupid and upgrade.

Now, if something happens at NAB that makes the C100 come down in price a couple of hundred bucks or so...

I need to find a store that has them both so I can see them. Any Canon dealers in Tampa/Orlando/Jacksonville area?
 
scorsesefan said:
No shortage of resentment towards Adobe for forcing the subscription model down our throats. Had to give in because FCP7 is end of life, and I hate AVID and X...
Click to expand...

You and me both. Try DaVinci Resolve. It's free for the light version. Worth looking at.
 
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