X70 4k: an insult!

AtticusLake

AtticusLake

Well-known member
NewsShooter has reported on the announcement of the X70's 4k update:

http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/02/...ce-new-upcoming-firmware-release-for-the-fs7/

The 2.0 firmware release looks to have some interesting features, but as far as the 4k part goes, this looks like a complete fiasco to me. 4:2:0, 8-bit, and 60 Mb/s???? That's just exactly what the AX100 had at launch! So we pay more, for a "pro" camera, and our reward is having to wait until June to get the EXACT SAME 4k mode???

Where it becomes a total insult is where we have to PAY TO GET IT.

So we buy a more expensive camera, and then have to pay AGAIN to get the SAME 4k mode.

Come on, Sony, this is pathetic.

I'm still glad I bought the X70. I bought it as an HD camera -- basically for what it was at the time -- and as an HD camera, I still believe it's great. It make beautiful pictures (I have to say way better than my previous cam, the FS700, though of course that camera is a lot more versatile), and it has a lot of capability in a small, pretty cheap package.

But I chose the X70 over the AX100 because I thought it was going to be a step up. For HD, I think that's true, but 4k was an advertised feature of the X70 from the get-go. To wit this long for it, and then be told that it's just what the AX100 already has but will cost extra, is pretty shameful.

Their little note that "we are looking to support a higher bit-rate ... in the future" is just like another slap in the face. What the hell is "looking to"? When is "the future"? Are they going to do it or not? Are supposed to just hang on to find out?
 
Could not agree more. This is why I WAITED until I knew what Sony was going to announce before seriously considering buying it - which I no longer am. NAB in couple of months so I'll just play a waiting game again! (Secretely wanting a 4K capable C300 MkII to be affordable - I might be disappointed in that desire too!)
 
Wow - a year and a half after the introduction of the AX100, and Sony can't give us better 4K. I had just assumed all along I'd do the 4K upgrade, but now I'm probably not. The other features beyond the 4K are of no interest to me.

I love the camera, and it's still better in several ways than my previous cam, but I'm glad I only put $2300 into it. That gives me the option of using it for a while to see what comes out that's new and better. My converter tells me that 485 euros is $672 US dollars. I'll put that toward a better 4K camera later on.
 
I can't help but think Sony's financial problems is seriously impacting their firmware development.
After selling my EX1 I held off on the X70 (I really need a smaller ENG camera) hoping to have a viable professional 4K camera. On top of that it's been months and still no FCPX plugin for XAVC-L (which impacts FS7 users as well).

I'm sure NAB will have more options from other manufacturers at this point.

Sony has to be seriously hurting with internal resources.
 
Damn I just bought one new from B&H and this makes my heart sink a little bit. Sony's just got too much invested in too many cameras, it's a nightmare trying to figure out which one will be a good investment and not have a replacement less than a year from now. Also why no freaking standardization among formats? SD cards, SxS cards, XQD cards, A mount, E mount, full frame E mount, XAVC S, XAVC L, XAVC I, etc etc... Really missing my GH4 about now. Sorry for the rant, I still like the X70.
 
Osslund said:
That's what I said all along. AX100 is better considering 4k and image quality.
Click to expand...

But not good when working. At all!

The menu is so consumerish and functions are reduced to the bare minimum.
Access to functions is cumbersome when your using the evf.
It doesn't have sdi and I wouldn't use that thin hdmi port other than to break it during a shoot.
Recording audio means that you have to buy the external XLR accessory from sony.
It doesn't have two sdhc slots.
It doesn't have an handle.
Oh....it doesn't even have histograms, not to mention other exposure tools.

That being said, I bought it because I found it used on amazon months ago for such a price that it was too tempting. At that time 4k on the X70 was too far.
Do I regret? No, because it's nice to have it in the bag especially on a trip.
Would I use it on a paid gig? Not at all! It's barely ok for stock videos if your patient enough with its annoying and uncostumizable menu https://vimeo.com/118552757

If at the time I bought the AX100 the X70 had 4k already, I would have bought the X70 with no doubts.
 
homerc67 said:
Sony's just got too much invested in too many cameras, ...
Click to expand...

I think you're right on the mark. Sony make great cameras, and I think you're going to love the X70 as long as you're shooting HD. I love the fact that Sony cameras are really complete -- you get a real working product, with serious codecs that give you an excellent picture without using up many TB of disk space.

But they've really screwed up on 4k for the X70. If they couldn't deliver anything better than the AX100's 4k, well that's bad enough, but then they have no right to charge us for it -- not after buying the more expensive camera!

It really look like just what you said -- their development effort is spread too thin. I'd like to see them focus on a smaller product set, because I think they could be killer. And Sony Creative (i.e. Vegas) really ought to be supporting Sony cameras.
 
That Sony is looking at a June 2015 4k upgrade with only 4:2:0 at 60mbps for about $550 US for a camera that, at that point, will have been out about 8 months, is disappointing. Couple that with the inability to use XAVC-L in FCPX makes the camera a non starter for me despite its other assets. Note that other Sony camera upgrades are coming sooner. The cost for a "consumer" standard 4K codec is too high. Their development is most certainly spread too thin.

It's almost as if they're throwing out camera variations at the market to see what becomes popular. The less expensive the camera, the more the firmware seems to be either an afterthought or revenue stream padding. If they aren't capable of supporting one camera comparable to their other cameras they should contract their model releases.

In fact the very nature of the June release probably is going to limit sales because, if one hasn't purchased the X70 at this point, it makes more sense to wait to see the NAB announcements.
 
For those of us that are X70 and FCPX users, the one consolation is that they will almost certainly bring out native import, either through a plugin or through an Apple update, because (thankfully) the fs7 includes this same codec.
 
The 4k upgrade should have been free, period! That little camera, at that price, with 4k capabilities and a few firmware tweaks here and there would have been a game-changer.
I'v used it quite extensively this week on important paid projects and it is EXTREMELY versatile. The 1in sensor and the fairly good low light capabilities make it a very enjoyable run and gun cam that matches really well with GH4 and higher end super35 sensor format.

They are simply idiots to make people pay for this. I certainly wont ...
 
I know I have been burned in the past by being an early adopter of cameras. My approach now is to ONLY buy a a piece of tech for what it does at the time you buy it, not for promised feature updates even if they say it will only be a few months out. This approach has stood me well.

I hope everyone here feels they will get their money's worth out of the camera. It sure has a lot of fairly innovative tech in it, like the touch screen rack focusing. I presume you can use Catalyst Prepare to re-wrap the files. They ought to provide a free licence of this app to all registered X70 owners at the very least.

If you are going to vent, may I suggest heading over to the Sony run forum. At least there you have a chance of having your voice heard. You could make a plea to the Sony people at NAB but I have found in the past, that doesn't work.

Good luck.
 
So has everyone here seen the other thread today on this? It quotes someone from Sony's booth at BVE clarifying that the 4K upgrade is FREE, and that the only charge would be to enable 4K 25p on the camera. That cost would be approx. 450 euros. So...

Does that mean in the States 4K 24p would be not free?
Does that mean the original info was incorrect?
Or is this incorrect?
Or did Sony realize a mutiny was brewing and change their mind?

I hope the 4K is free, although I still can't believe it's 60mps when the AX100 is getting 100mps (and has had 120fps @ 720p for over a year).

http://www.hdwarrior.co.uk/2015/02/25/bve-2015-day-two/ and scroll down a bit to the X70 news
 
Ibrahim, could you clarify your post? Are you saying the person I linked to earlier was told incorrect information at the Sony booth at BVE on Thursday, and that the 4K upgrade is NOT free? If that's what you mean, how do you know?


The Sony people told him that 4K was free unless you wanted 25p.
 
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