F55: Would You Buy A used F55

Good way to grab a good camera. I bought mine used a few years ago. Body and OLED VF that had almost a year left on the extended, transferable warranty, all for $20K. Hell, I saw a used R5 in mint condition a few days ago for like $1,800. If I did more than one RAW job a year and the media wasn't stupidly priced, I would have grabbed it.
 
I picked up a full F55 kit just under a year ago in LA, used.

Its an early serial F55 but i probably saved around 15k by going with a used kit, got the OLED, 2x 128 cards, 4x Sony batts w charger, AXS Recorder and arri support for 25k. Same price as a new body.
 
The price new seems to have really gone up.

If I remember right the f5 was about $12k when I didn't buy it.

Yep I'd buy one for $6k - maybe - but the c200 might be better for $6k

..so $4K?
 
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morgan_moore said:
The price new seems to have really gone up.

If I remember right the f5 was about $12k when I didn't buy it.

Yep I'd buy one for $6k - maybe - but the c200 might be better for $6k

..so $4K?
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Your comparing the F55 to the C200..even an F5 for that matter ??? you read the specs of these cameras right .. :)
 
4k raw, 2kg (C200)
4k raw 4kg (F55)

modern media (c200)
odd obsolete media (f55)
af (c200)
no af (f55)

XLR placed ok
XLR sticks out the side

HFjack - placed OK
HF jack - jabs you in the neck

18-80 $7k (C200)
18-120 $23k? (f55)

Yep I know the specs

..And obviously I 'get' that global, TC in and other things are awesome
 
The F55 is an economic oddball and IMO not likely to command a good return. This does not mean that I do not think it is a brilliant image making machine.

NOW.. Im am on the edges on pre-pro of a small budget feature (4kRaw -> HDR) .. they want to shoot on 2 USRA minis and a BM_4k (gimbal).. I think I could construct an argument that F55 and the fancy new codec (that even a nerd like me cannot remember the name of) would be a better choice mainly on data/dit savings

But also global shutter and certain other elements of the camera (like it will work!) make it better than the URSA, maybe.

The camera is awesome but not on the radar of the folk who are not on the edge of the pre-pro but at the centre of it.

Point me to one video about that codec that will wow the folk at the centre of pre-pro - sony marketing is utter death

And show me a video on playback.. convince me that the Ursa or canon with thier grown up app interafce is not going to be awesome.. how does the scripty grab a still, what gubbins do we need to turn when the thing is on a jib?

S
 
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morgan_moore said:
4k raw, 2kg (C200)
4k raw 4kg (F55)

modern media (c200)
odd obsolete media (f55)
af (c200)
no af (f55)

XLR placed ok
XLR sticks out the side

HFjack - placed OK
HF jack - jabs you in the neck

18-80 $7k (C200)
18-120 $23k? (f55)

Yep I know the specs

..And obviously I 'get' that global, TC in and other things are awesome
Click to expand...

Well theres a bit more that that spec wise..F55 has 16 bit RAW.. internal XAVC 10 bit 422,C200 what is it 8bit 35mbps.. Log ?,ergonomic,s ?.. colour array filter..? XLR placement not really alot better.. anyone with F5/55 has 90 degree XLR by now...

SxS is not old media ?.. its the most stable recoding card in the universe thats what Arri chose it for Alexa.. really come on.. f55 v,s C200.. you think they are roughly the same camera .. thats a bit of a stretch sir
 
I don't think they are the same camera of course. The 55 is probably way under appreciated.

I dont know enough of the foibles (or not) of the camera to really know if it works 'on set'.. and Sony dont really tell me. ( I guess luts are a complete arse like the FS7????) I guess its app is crud like the FS7 (C200 and Ursa have apps)

Im just not sure what hole it fits into.

Low budget feature? These people are in the market for a used cinema camera.
4k sport broadcast? These people have tooled up.
Netflix show? Varicam has cache
High end HD doc? Amera has cache (and proper slo-mo beyond 60p)
Corporate? Producers know and trust the FS7 and rely on 24-105/booster for affordable reach.
Fools that plough their own furrow (me)? Yep it is interesting :)
The Red brigade? Well they want 'Shot on Red'

A lot of producers are obsessed with 4kProRes which pushes one in other directions and will melt if you suggest a codec that even I cant remember the name of.
The 'sony look' does not have a good reputation

You may remember that I shot a big FS7 doco and due to the need for TC and some other stuff I wanted to switch to F5 which was on the shelf unused in the rental house.. the producers thought I was somehow short of the full mental package 'like the 5 is worse than the 7 right?'

Its a hard sell is what I am saying.

S
 
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Just FYI sir.. the Amira is the same as the F55 only 60 fps in 4K.. but the F55/5 will go to 160 fps in 2K/HD .. the mighty Amira only 100 fps in HD/2k.. its actually no where near as good for HFR.. F5/55 also has cache

Re the F55 to C200..Your basically comparing a second hand, high level Merc to a new Toyota Corolla .. :)
 
morgan_moore said:
and the fancy new codec (that even a nerd like me cannot remember the name of)
Click to expand...

XAVC 4K Class480.

This gives a bit rate of 480Mb/s at 24/25/30fps. At 50 and 60fps it is 960Mb/s, which is the top limit for XAVC recording. Previously the F5 and F55 could record XAVC Class 300 which is up to 300Mb/s at 24/25/30fps or 600Mb/s at 50/60p.

C200 RAW lite is interesting however. 10bit (60fps) or 12bit (30fps) 4K DCI recording at a data rate of 1Gbps.


Now if you're embarking on "features", those initial dialogues with the director using the S word are going to take some further talks, perhaps tests, and likely mentioning every hollywood feature film and Netflix shot with them. People shooting indie features are going to want RED, Blackmagic, Canon, then Sony in that order. (They all want Alexa but can't afford it)
 
Donny 123 said:
Just FYI sir.. the Amira is the same as the F55 only 60 fps in 4K.. but the F55/5 will go to 160 fps in 2K/HD .. the mighty Amira only 100 fps in HD/2k.. its actually no where near as good for HFR.. F5/55 also has cache

Re the F55 to C200..Your basically comparing a second hand, high level Merc to a new Toyota Corolla .. :)
Click to expand...


Put right :) But the >60FPS in the 7/5/55 is a joke really - I use it all the time but would not consider it a serious solution.

A story (from a job that I gripped - fizzy drinks company that you know) .. young DP goes to rental house to test all the cameras for a HFR shoot - selects Amira.

Why? I have no idea!
Rental house doesnt stock 5/55?
Want Arri logos on his instagram feed?
Client demands proRes?
All the 55s out on a long term grown up shoot?
Discount on the Ameria because no grown up can be bothered to carry it?

No idea but that cam that came from the rental house was Amira


Donny 123 said:
Re the F55 to C200..Your basically comparing a second hand, high level Merc to a new Toyota Corolla .. :)
Click to expand...

Yep and as someone who owned a BMW 750iL I can tell you that for cheap service, low running costs, the ability to keep up with the traffic flow just fine a tidy Toyota is just the thing - that why the 750 was 20% of the sticker price when I got it. No one wanted it apart from one freak.. a long legged camera guy, who always bills miles, with a desire for a rock solid trunk for his kit.

S
 
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Re Indie features ..I dont know why they dont buy the old Alexa Classic,s that are for sale these days.. then sell after production.. they can always put a skull and cross bones sticker on to right.. and a whole bunch of monitors..
 
morgan_moore said:
Put right :) But the >60FPS in the 7/5/55 is a joke really - I use it all the time but would not consider it a serious solution.

A story (from a job that I gripped) .. young DP goes to rental house to test all the cameras for a HFR shoot - selects Amira.

Why? I have no idea!
Rental house doesnt stock 5/55?
Want Arri logos on his instagram feed?
Client demands proRes?

No idea but that cam that came from the rental house was Amira




Yep and as someone who owned a BMW 750iL I can tell you that for cheap service, low running costs, the ability to keep up with the traffic flow a tidy Toyota is just the thing - that why the 750 was 20% of the shelf price when I got it.

S
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Young DOP.. rental house .. leaves with Amira for HFR.. he's been had !.. basically means no one has been rented the Amira for a while..even premium license max 100 fps.. unless as you say the Arri badge would look good on set .. then fair enough.. but I dont know anyone that would run to an Amira for HFR.. the Mini maybe..

Ive never had any problems with the F5 at 100-120 fps..
 
starcentral said:
XAVC 4K Class480
Click to expand...

Den - I know all about the codec - it sounds to be the perfect upgrade from 300 which is just not quite there for 'serious' work

But the producers who pick the cameras from rental or hire the owner ops.. they don't know it.. are not sold it.. and it has no vibe
 
Amira goes right up to 200fps in prores hq 422 in 2k or HD. Same quality read out as normal speed. Really butchers the fs7/f5/f55 save the 4k 120p RAW that the f55 can do with new recorder but those data-rates...
 
morgan_moore said:
Educate me - is this different from the >72 FPS on the FS7, which is er.. wooly

--

I have a feeling that 5/55 firmware took it away from the FS7 but no-one (producers) knows this

S
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No idea sorry Sir.. I presumed it would be the same.. fs7/f5 HFR.. same sensor they say.. are you shooting in Full frame or Crop mode.. full frame can give you some aliasing as the OLPF is 4K..so a miss match .. because your not shooting with a 4K sensor in HFR mode/Full frame/scan.. the F5/55 you can change the OLPF.. though i dont think many people do.. to avoid shoot in centre crop mode.. but its usually only things like brick walls etc that will give you problems in Full Frame.. so maybe there is different processing going on.. and one of the price difference reason.. that Sony dont want to shout out about ..
 
Playback?

A big thing on that amera job (and a recent red shoot I was on) was the ability to play back lots of times to the director between IO points (not staring at 30seconds of board in HFR)

The arri seemed to have that nailed, I thinking on the red shoot they used some fancy box - maybe the arri too.

But on set playback, (watching the drink splash again and again) was very big. Also I dont know how they didd it but the shot was sent to london for approval before moving on to the next setup ('the lime at the left is too big") can the 5/5 do this stuff?

Whatever the Arri delivered a good director experience for the young DOP

S
 
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