F55: Would You Buy A used F55

Yikes ..sorry ok with the premium license .. I thought even with was only 100.. Ive only used the standard obviously .. but at $45,000 you would want higher ! even the F5 can go to 160 fps for half the price, same read out as normal HD/2K but over 60 its not 4K.. well 3200K even.. same as the F5..

Actually both the F5 and F55 could do 240 fps with the R5 Raw recorder .. from the get go.. there is new lower data rate "raw" now with the R7.. but the 240fps has been round for years..
 
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morgan_moore said:
Playback?

A big thing on that amera job (and a recent red shoot I was on) was the ability to play back lots of times to the director between IO points (not staring at 30seconds of board in HFR)

The arri seemed to have that nailed, I thinking on the red shoot they used some fancy box - maybe the arri too.

But on set playback, (watching the drink splash again and again) was very big. Also I dont know how they didd it but the shot was sent to london for approval before moving on to the next setup ('the lime at the left is too big") can the 5/5 do this stuff?

Whatever the Arri delivered a good director experience for the young DOP

S
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Play back is the same on the F5/55.. no cache .. just straight play back
 
Donny 123 said:
Amira.. great camera.. no great advantages over the F55 re HFR ..
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Well FS7 (my experience ) v Amera you have sharp 60P vs sharp 200p.. if you consider the >72fps 'not serious' (which I dont - the codec is way too thin) and want an 'easy' codec - seems like the young DOP is not muppet - the 5/55 may be a bit better than the 7, even before you go raw.

S
 
Are you shooting crop or full frame on your Fs7 when you go to HFR mode.. ?.. yes Im sure the DOP wasn't a muppet.. but depending on the frame rate needed the Amira with premium license would be a big rental compared to a Sony F5 for example..
 
F55 actually does up to 180fps in HD/2K internally(XAVC). Slap on the new R7 RAW recorder and you can do 240fps 2K RAW and 120fps 4K RAW. It also does Sony's new X-OCN format that is supposed to basically be like shooting RAW, but much smaller data rates. I know guys that make their bread and butter on F5/55's shooting a ton of high speed(probably well over 50% of their footage) and no complaints.

Card prices shouldn't be a problem. Sony says their XQD cards in their SxS adapters are approved for everything the 5/55 can do. Even my sales rep talked me into going that route instead of SxS cards. A 128 GB Sony XQD is $159(US/B&H), $340 for 256 GB and an adapter maybe $25. It's actually very un-Sony to offer a fully approved and functioning, less expensive alternative...
 
The above 60p on the sonys are BAD. Like shooting on a 5D mk2 basically. And 4k RAW is not fun. Even 4k XAVC in 60p is huge compared to the quality you get. The amira is as sharp in 1080p as the sonys in 4k with smaller files in better quality (prores), nicer image and NO fuss at all just change the frame rate. Very expensive and heavy though. If they made a smaller version in plastic it would be nice :)
 
If we're comparing apples to apples, here, ProRes is not smaller than XAVC. When I'm asked to shoot ProRes on my 55 instead of XAVC, I lose probably 1/4 of the record time on any given card. And I don't see any visual advantage of ProRes over XAVC, in my experience with the camera. I have the internal ProRes/Avid board.

What's the fuss in changing frame rates on the 55? I tap the AUX button on my 17-120 and the camera jumps to slo-mo in a second(literally), maybe two... And I have the major slo-mo frame rates you'd shoot programmed in to the side panel dial. Just push it in and crank up and down for your frame rate. You never even have to take the camera off of your shoulder or look at a menu page.
 
I think what Im seeing here is.

a) the camera is basically wonderful

b) it seems highly mis understood, mis marketed and unfashionable - probably in the main in producers heads (and those who do post)

I googled F55 raw and hit a newsshooter review by matt allard..

1) just the home page image (a sunset) says to me.. the camera can do all I want - it is the real deal - (I also saw this simple 'real deal' thing when I saw Ali Chimpunk demo the camera).

2) the confusing description of raw, sony software, post, ISO, relearning exposure would make many DPs and certainly all producers run a mile
 
stokstad said:
The above 60p on the sonys are BAD. Like shooting on a 5D mk2 basically. And 4k RAW is not fun. Even 4k XAVC in 60p is huge compared to the quality you get. The amira is as sharp in 1080p as the sonys in 4k with smaller files in better quality (prores), nicer image and NO fuss at all just change the frame rate. Very expensive and heavy though. If they made a smaller version in plastic it would be nice :)
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Sorry but this is nonsense sir.. I also shoot alot of HFR on a Sony f5.. .. it is nothing like a 5D..?? where do you get that from.. you must be doing something wrong I think... thousands of other people are having no problems.. I have S&Q as assign button.. and have set the menu scroll wheel to any preset speeds I want... as R & G has done.. just press the wheel and turn one click.. it literally takes 2 seconds at most..even on your shoulder.. Pro res is much bigger files than XAVC I with no visible quality difference .. fair enough its an older less efficient codec .. I think the difference is actually owning the camera and learning to use it properly to get the best from it maybe..
 
over 60p you have the option of 2K OLPF for only the F5/F55 not the FS7… I think lots of people might see binning issues with > 60p on FS7 then assume all sony's the same. No they are not… and as mentioned with the R7 you can do 4K on 120fps and therefore don't need the 2K OLPF at all.
 
starcentral said:
over 60p you have the option of 2K OLPF for only the F5/F55 not the FS7… I think lots of people might see binning issues with > 60p on FS7 then assume all sony's the same. No they are not… and as mentioned with the R7 you can do 4K on 120fps and therefore don't need the 2K OLPF at all.
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But the fs7 has crop mode now doesnt it.. they can go to this setting also to get around the OLPF .. TBH I only ever find a problem with Full Scan with stuff like brick wall.tight repeat pattern surfaces .. but maybe the processing is different between fs7 and f5.. but the thread is about f55 anyway..
 
Full scan has lots of alaising and moire and you lose 2 stops in the shadows. Crop mode is soft and you lose 2 stops in the shadows. That is bad. You also lose LUT-support which is bad. And do you really want to put on a new OLPF when shooting hfr?

My point is not that these are bad cameras I really like them. But they are among the ones with compromises above 60p which the amira has none. That camera goes up to 200fps with same quality and LUTs. Prores hq is much better quality than XAVC-I in my experiemce, holds grain for example.
 
stokstad said:
Full scan has lots of alaising and moire and you lose 2 stops in the shadows. Crop mode is soft and you lose 2 stops in the shadows. That is bad. You also lose LUT-support which is bad. And do you really want to put on a new OLPF when shooting hfr?

My point is not that these are bad cameras I really like them. But they are among the ones with compromises above 60p which the amira has none. That camera goes up to 200fps with same quality and LUTs. Prores hq is much better quality than XAVC-I in my experiemce, holds grain for example.
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Yes sure fair enough.. Ive never had problems shooting HFR with the F5 or F55.. but I have never used the Fs7.. (I dont change over the OLPF to 2K one).. Im only ever shooting for TV and never has there been any complaint from post about HFR.. are you shooting with Fs7.. otherwise its funny that you have these problems but I never read about them on the Sony forums ... if it was the case all the F55 owners for sure would have been up in arms years ago..

The Amira is shooting only HD/2K at 200 fps.. same as the 180 fps on the F5/55.. .. the UHD (up res at that).. is only up to 60.. again the same as the F5/55..but the F5/55 is a full 4K sensor 4096..

We could go on and on and yes basically both are very good high end cameras.. but to argue the the Amira is better for HFR I think its very questionable .. but to compare it to the C200 is just pain nuts.. :)
 
C200 will/may/should offer a 1gbs codec in an exceptionally small package. That is appealing to some, especially if you add world beating AF.

They are all tools, and finding the right one for the job is the thing.

It happens that I think raw, small package, canon colour AF are very strong in some sectors and you would rent that more than a 55/raw package..
 
Doug's HFR examples from his F55 always looks sweet and a match for any Amira/Alexa HFR I've seen and better than HFR from the FS7. I shot a lot of HFR stuff on the FS7 and mixed it with UHD in projects and no one ever said anything about it, not a whimper. Full frame HFR you have to pick your battles and not have a load of regular patterns but in crop mode the footage is clean if a tiny but soft but with a touch of sharpening in post it's great.

The F55 is still an excellent camera for a certain segment of users but for the jobbing video producer/small outfit there's better ways of spending money as the real world difference between an FS7 and F55 at this level is mostly moot and a second hand FS7 mkI and a load of support gear could be had for the same cash.

Personally, I would be waiting for the FS7 MkIII that's the size and weight of the current FS5 which could be easily thrown around on your favourite gimbal. Smaller high quality cameras that are good enough make more sense to me than a bargain priced excellent large camera.
 
Nirv said:
Doug's HFR examples from his F55 always looks sweet and a match for any Amira/Alexa HFR I've seen and better than HFR from the FS7. I shot a lot of HFR stuff on the FS7 and mixed it with UHD in projects and no one ever said anything about it, not a whimper. Full frame HFR you have to pick your battles and not have a load of regular patterns but in crop mode the footage is clean if a tiny but soft but with a touch of sharpening in post it's great.

The F55 is still an excellent camera for a certain segment of users but for the jobbing video producer/small outfit there's better ways of spending money as the real world difference between an FS7 and F55 at this level is mostly moot and a second hand FS7 mkI and a load of support gear could be had for the same cash.

Personally, I would be waiting for the FS7 MkIII that's the size and weight of the current FS5 which could be easily thrown around on your favourite gimbal. Smaller high quality cameras that are good enough make more sense to me than a bargain priced excellent large camera.
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But when did the F55 become a large camera.. its a tiny box.. with a prime lens and V mount battery.. the thing is small small small.. I,d rather have some weight at least to put on my shoulder than an Fs5 C200 et el.. prosumer design cams.. held out in front on my body.. put a different camera on your gimbal not your A cam..
 
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