FS7: Would You Buy A Panasonic AU-EVA1?

Donny 123 said:
haha here we go again.. :)... if its there sure why not.. but yes i wouldn't ever expect it on a pro camera or lens either.. Im not saying the square wheel was better than these new round ones.. auto focus ,if it works well.. will of course have its time in the sun.. gimbal on failry wide lens etc.. but it will never be able to decide where in the frame you want the focus.. unless there really is telepathic support.. its a machine it doesnt think .. there will always be some parameters it has to work by.. the worst of course being centre frame only.. are you really going to be pushing a monitor with your finger the whole time.. instead of being a cameraman/women .. sorry but I really do rally against the whole thing these days of people excepting auto everything .. shooting off screens they cant see properly and every hand held shot is at waist height.. preferably from a skate board.. really the Pana video has a hipster guy shooting from a skate board ..Santa Monica beach yet again.. really its there.. and the C200 promo video is yes !! a skate board park.. I kid you not.. you couldn't make this up.. there will be a generation of not only, poorly paid.. but really unskilled DP,s coming along.. who have never put a camera on their shoulder.. never looked through an view finder.. never set exposure, or focus or learnt to operate without needing electronic stabilization .. maybe that makes me an old fart.. ? but I dont see that as a good thing.. Canon has this auto focus one trick pony as they are about 4 years late for the rodeo.. no I dont need it.. and plenty of "pro" dp, s dont either.. and I dont need stabilization for my hand held.. I dont need monitors sprouting from every SDI on my camera.. I have a EVF.. it lets you frame a shot with dark around the edges .. and you can see focus.. it might crush your beard or get your man bun caught up .. and its not great for shooting from skate boards.. :)
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I can understand you don't like auto focus, often times in my day job I resist innovation only to find myself giving into it later ..... change is painful, I'm a traditionalist and I resist change as much as possible. Sometimes change means sacrificing and saving up money to buy a new camera, every 3 or 4 years.... that can be a drag. Many photographer friends of mine also like film cameras and prefer dark rooms. Most have embraced technology and now see the light. I'm not a professional so I don't mean to try and educate those with more experience than me. I have a C100 and last year got the DPAF upgrade, and it changed everything. I do some instructional videos and can't be behind a camera and in front of it at the same time to pull focus on a non existent person in the frame. This really helps!

I don't know if you have heard yet that Canons auto focus is no longer a square in the center of the frame. Yes the square can now be moved at the touch of a fingertip, the same way your fingertips move a mechanical focus wheel on the side of your camera. In both cases actual humans are in charge. The people who buy Canons C-Series cameras are not all making motion pictures. If you do interviews, instructional videos, run and gun, etc. having auto focus is a good friend. Yea, if you like to film flowers going in and out of focus all day long just because you had bought a 5D2 a number of years ago, and could post endless videos on Vimeo to let the world know how talented you are then yes who needs auto-focus. From my limited experience I can say there are times when I turn off AF and focus manually, and there are times when AF is extremely helpful. For me it's not an either or thing, but just another helpful tool in in your toolbox for when you need it. I like shots where it's out of focus then you pull focus too, but it's annoying if it's over done.

Point taken ......you don't need IS or AF cause you developed your intuition ...yes, there is something to be said about that, and a skill that you can always rely on regardless of what camera you have. When I was young I learned to tune a guitar with my ear, now a days young guitarists studying at world famous conservatories all clip guitar tuners to the head of their guitars, at first protested this barbaric practice, only to give into it and accept it as the new normal.

I've never used a camera that has in camera IS. I'm assuming the reason for that is because the adopters don't allow different brand lens to communicate IS to the camera? I'm pretty good at hand held stabilization too! If I want I can pan hand held and make it look like it's on a tripod. I don't think it's rocket science, and I would never buy an expensive lens without IS.
 
Michael Thames said:
I can understand you don't like auto focus, often times in my day job I resist innovation only to find myself giving into it later ..... change is painful, I'm a traditionalist and I resist change as much as possible. Sometimes change means sacrificing and saving up money to buy a new camera, every 3 or 4 years.... that can be a drag. Many photographer friends of mine also like film cameras and prefer dark rooms. Most have embraced technology and now see the light. I'm not a professional so I don't mean to try and educate those with more experience than me. I have a C100 and last year got the DPAF upgrade, and it changed everything. I do some instructional videos and can't be behind a camera and in front of it at the same time to pull focus on a non existent person in the frame. This really helps!

I don't know if you have heard yet that Canons auto focus is no longer a square in the center of the frame. Yes the square can now be moved at the touch of a fingertip, the same way your fingertips move a mechanical focus wheel on the side of your camera. In both cases actual humans are in charge. The people who buy Canons C-Series cameras are not all making motion pictures. If you do interviews, instructional videos, run and gun, etc. having auto focus is a good friend. Yea, if you like to film flowers going in and out of focus all day long just because you had bought a 5D2 a number of years ago, and could post endless videos on Vimeo to let the world know how talented you are then yes who needs auto-focus. From my limited experience I can say there are times when I turn off AF and focus manually, and there are times when AF is extremely helpful. For me it's not an either or thing, but just another helpful tool in in your toolbox for when you need it. I like shots where it's out of focus then you pull focus too, but it's annoying if it's over done.

Point taken ......you don't need IS or AF cause you developed your intuition ...yes, there is something to be said about that, and a skill that you can always rely on regardless of what camera you have. When I was young I learned to tune a guitar with my ear, now a days young guitarists studying at world famous conservatories all clip guitar tuners to the head of their guitars, at first protested this barbaric practice, only to give into it and accept it as the new normal.

I've never used a camera that has in camera IS. I'm assuming the reason for that is because the adopters don't allow different brand lens to communicate IS to the camera? I'm pretty good at hand held stabilization too! If I want I can pan hand held and make it look like it's on a tripod. I don't think it's rocket science, and I would never buy an expensive lens without IS.
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Ok got it.. yes well if your not actually a professional and have a day job.. then yes I can see AF can be helpful.. i.e. shooting an interview where your not actually operating the camera.. no offense but this wouldn't ever happen in a professional situation.. and sorry but tapping a screen for focus is not really the same as turning a physical focus barrel on a lens while you are actually looking through a EVF or even a monitor for that matter.. that will never fly in any run and gun situation Im afraid.. its not to do with shooting flowers on you tube.. its basic pro work.. interviews.. B roll anything really.. it becomes second nature.. you shouldn't really have to think about it.. there is no way you can operate a camera and tap a screen to keep focus where you want.. but anyway apologies I was wrong to presume you were an actual jobbing camera OP.. and yes I agree and think i did say.. in the amateur world.. yes great .. why not ..have auto everything..
 
There are very few situations in which AF can be useful: holding focus on a predefined object or person as it moves towards or away from the camera plane. These are maybe one or two shots in a production day, the rest needs split second reaction to a visual storytelling idea. You notice the girl daydreaming in the crowd you pull focus to her at the speed and with the landing you feel is right. And you will never develop that skill if you rely on AF. That moment can make or brake a scene that intro shot of the protagonist walking towards camera on. 200 st f2.8 is not going to deliver the magic it's just crap you can post on Vimeo.
 
Once I realized how useful face tracking is I would really like that in all my cameras. Not that I would use AF all the time but when I need it, it would make things much easier, and I like easy.
 
i use manual all the time... but having AF can save time when needed.
ive done a dolly out shot from close up of the eyes to a medium shot. it would have been a freaking hard time focus pulling that manually. oh its possible manually but oh the time and effort.
AF is like a gimbal. you dont use gimbals on everything. :)
 
wschmid said:
To my opinion, the Pany could be the more intersting camera compared to the C200 or even FS7.

Interesting to see that Mitch has resigned with CD.
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While numbers alone don't tell the whole story, EVA will be using a more compressed CODEC than the FS7, so we'll need to wait to see how the footage compares.
 
icarusfilm said:
There are very few situations in which AF can be useful: holding focus on a predefined object or person as it moves towards or away from the camera plane. These are maybe one or two shots in a production day, the rest needs split second reaction to a visual storytelling idea. You notice the girl daydreaming in the crowd you pull focus to her at the speed and with the landing you feel is right. And you will never develop that skill if you rely on AF. That moment can make or brake a scene that intro shot of the protagonist walking towards camera on. 200 st f2.8 is not going to deliver the magic it's just crap you can post on Vimeo.
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+100...pulling good focus and making a choice...in an instant because something is happening now...and never will again...even in narrative, a machine can and never will replace...a bird walking or flying into a shot...an aircraft in the sky...only the human eye catches these moments...and of course a good tape measure helps...to some this may be old fashioned, but every film one sits down to enjoy...be it in the theatre, or a series like Breaking Bad on your television...or a commercial set for that matter...it's how it's done.
 
Bern Caughey said:
While numbers alone don't tell the whole story, EVA will be using a more compressed CODEC than the FS7, so we'll need to wait to see how the footage compares.
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^ This and what the actual iso's will be are huge factors to me. I like Panny... but would never pre-order based on the info thus far.
 
fboonzaier said:
+100...pulling good focus and making a choice...in an instant because something is happening now...and never will again...even in narrative, a machine can and never will replace...a bird walking or flying into a shot...an aircraft in the sky...only the human eye catches these moments...and of course a good tape measure helps...to some this may be old fashioned, but every film one sits down to enjoy...be it in the theatre, or a series like Breaking Bad on your television...or a commercial set for that matter...it's how it's done.
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Well it may be how it's done, but things are changing. In 5 years I predict tripods and gimbals will go extinct and all films will be shot with silent anti-gravity drones with guys in a control room pulling focus.
 
Donny 123 said:
Ok got it.. yes well if your not actually a professional and have a day job.. then yes I can see AF can be helpful.. i.e. shooting an interview where your not actually operating the camera.. no offense but this wouldn't ever happen in a professional situation.. and sorry but tapping a screen for focus is not really the same as turning a physical focus barrel on a lens while you are actually looking through a EVF or even a monitor for that matter.. that will never fly in any run and gun situation Im afraid.. its not to do with shooting flowers on you tube.. its basic pro work.. interviews.. B roll anything really.. it becomes second nature.. you shouldn't really have to think about it.. there is no way you can operate a camera and tap a screen to keep focus where you want.. but anyway apologies I was wrong to presume you were an actual jobbing camera OP.. and yes I agree and think i did say.. in the amateur world.. yes great .. why not ..have auto everything..
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What makes me laugh is somehow you equate turning a follow focus as the deterring factor in what separates the men from the boys. I have a follow focus too. Does the ability for me to focus on a bird in the frame or pick out an interesting person in a crowd and make a split second decision to focus there make me a pro? Cause I can do that too. I guess I'm a pro, I feel much better about myself now.

BTW, I really like how you can use the AF button to turn AF on and off while shifting focus, I might even go so far as to call that technique an art form in itself.
 
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Michael Thames said:
Well it may be how it's done, but things are changing. In 5 years I predict tripods and gimbals will go extinct and all films will be shot with silent anti-gravity drones with guys in a control room pulling focus.
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OK...perhaps another analogy...I moved to Quito recently...my wife's cousin is a focus puller...period...that's what she's hired for on local productions...or perhaps more relatable to you...your beautiful guitars you make by hand...yes I looked at the YouTube video you posted...compared to how Taylor guitars are made...or a waiter in Montreal...not an actor working as a waiter, but someone who's job is being a waiter...pulling focus by hand is an art...as are your guitars...when machines produce "art", we need to find a different word for it...
 
The same way you can't win a war with remote controlled drones you can't make film either.

Michael Thames said:
Well it may be how it's done, but things are changing. In 5 years I predict tripods and gimbals will go extinct and all films will be shot with silent anti-gravity drones with guys in a control room pulling focus.
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fboonzaier said:
OK...perhaps another analogy...I moved to Quito recently...my wife's cousin is a focus puller...period...that's what she's hired for on local productions...or perhaps more relatable to you...your beautiful guitars you make by hand...yes I looked at the YouTube video you posted...compared to how Taylor guitars are made...or a waiter in Montreal...not an actor working as a waiter, but someone who's job is being a waiter...pulling focus by hand is an art...as are your guitars...when machines produce "art", we need to find a different word for it...
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That is an excellent anology. However I would liken my craft to more like a Factory worker. I live in a city where everyone is an artist, in my younger days I've hung out in covofefe houses and discussed art with many artists, I've played guitar for Georgia Okeffee, a hung out with Larry Bell as he talked about commissioning guitars for his Beverly Hills Gallery. Point is, when I hear people saying something is an art form I tend to try and change the subject to something like car mechanics.... something you can sink your teeth into.

I don't consider video production an art form. I know they are, but having a bunch of people on set performing different tasks to create a whole isn't the same as Van Gogh painting a Van Gogh. I can certainly enjoy a good movie, or photograph, but does it translate to high art? Hum....... for the sake of argument maybe 3% of films might reach into that realm. Guitars at best are functional useful things much like a camera, but I hesitate to call Canon executives artists. If I called myself an artist all day long, I don't know if I could live with myself . If you study the evolution of art during the Renaissance, that is when artists began separating themselves from the masses and were elevated from others. Michaelangelo, and Francesco da Milano, were the first to be given the title iL Divino by the Pope.

I think your wife's cousin has a high degree of skill and experience, that is certain, but equating money making, which is the very definition of a profesional or pro, as the equivalent or the defining factor of an artist is sketchy. Who is to say the way I use the AF button isn't art too? Because I don't make money doing it? When the world of technology and art collide things get murky.
 
icarusfilm said:
Step 1: put the camera on your shoulder make sure its balanced - boom no need for IS.
Step 2: Put a lens that has been designed for motion picture be it a zoom or a prime pul focus- boom no need for auto focus.
Step 3: make sure you have a reliable EVF or monitor to see what you are doing- done.
And if you can't hold a 200mm shot steady thats OK because you are not supposed to thats what tripods are for.
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Thanks. You just convinced me to not buy any of these expensive new cameras.
 
Michael Thames said:
What makes me laugh is somehow you equate turning a follow focus as the deterring factor in what separates the men from the boys. I have a follow focus too. Does the ability for me to focus on a bird in the frame or pick out an interesting person in a crowd and make a split second decision to focus there make me a pro? Cause I can do that too. I guess I'm a pro, I feel much better about myself now.

BTW, I really like how you can use the AF button to turn AF on and off while shifting focus, I might even go so far as to call that technique an art form in itself.
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You referred to the fact that Canon has a touch screen focus system.. and thats its not just centre screen .. I said ok but you cant work professionally with that system.. which I stand by totally.. sorry pointless argument as you are not a working/jobbing DP you dont really know what Im talking about.. had I known that in the first place I wouldn't have started the discussion TBH.. wasting both our time.. all good.. no problem.. peace and love..
 
Why do people insist on lecturing other professionals about how to work on this forum. Happens all the time and its a waste of time, space and lowers the quality of the discussion? Ok you don't like AF - fine. I understand why, but Don't tell me I can't or somehow that I'm a lower level professional level than you are because I'm not.

One of my best friends is a wonderful 40+ year DP who keeps his FS700 because he loves having the option of AF - WHEN APPROPRIATE. I wish I had it on the FS7.
 
Donny 123 said:
You referred to the fact that Canon has a touch screen focus system.. and thats its not just centre screen .. I said ok but you cant work professionally with that system.. which I stand by totally.. sorry pointless argument as you are not a working/jobbing DP you dont really know what Im talking about.. had I known that in the first place I wouldn't have started the discussion TBH.. wasting both our time.. all good.. no problem.. peace and love..
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You are gonna make me say it again. There are many levels of professionals with many different needs. I sure as hell can work professionally with Canons AF and many people do! Ive made a **** load of money from my videos, therefore I am a professional am I not? If I were to make a video with a drone and without certification I would subject to fines and or imprisionment under the current laws.... because I'm using footage to promote my business and sell my product.

I can guarantee you I could walk around like you, with a C200 or whatever camera you have on your shoulder, looking through a viewfinder, and pull focus on a damn bird. I can do that, and most anyone with basic camera skills can do that. Actually most people can do far more than that. So, I'm wasting your time because you wasted my time with your self-righteous artistic bullshit, and derogatory remarks about those of us who like Canons new AF and find it very useful.
 
Sorry seem to have struck a nerve.. you yourself said you have a day job.. clearly implying you are not someone who makes there living from camera work..?? there is more to focus than birds BTW ..:).. you said you shoot interviews without being able to operate the camera.. sorry that doesnt sound pro to me..
Our work is clearly totally different .. all Im say is I work as DP for a living.. no other work.. I have cine style gear.. non of it has auto anything.. and thats the same as all the other pro DP,s I know.. you made a point of the touch screen focus ..I made the point that no you cant work in a run and gun situation with this.. I assure Im right there.. any other jobbing DP on this forum will concur .. and yes as a point of discussion I do worry that the job/skill of DP is being denigrated with Auto functions being seen as must have on professional gear.. besides the fact that you just cant work in a professional and artistic way with these functions.. but for non pro yes I,,m all in favor of it... and if it helps you ..also great.. and handy for gimbals as i have said.. but Canon /Pana trying to push these camera functions as pro features I believe to be BS.. on Cine cameras is laughable ..

PS I didnt say you were wasting my time ..and I dont think that.. I said we were wasting each others time.. based on the fact that our work is very different .. no doubt you make alot more money that me.. but you are not a jobbing freelance DP ..which Iam .. so our needs are very different .. I cannot turn up for work to shoot a doc or a corp video with stills lenses, if the director sees Im shooting auto focus, auto iris.. auto anything ..I,ll be sacked on the spot.. and I should be too..

PPS Making alot of money from a video doesnt make you a professional Cameraman.. people are making alot of money from animal porn .. but wouldn't class themselves as professional DP,s.. or seen as such..
 
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