chappelldigital
Well-known member
Although I'm sure Canon's new "light raw" doesn't come close to RED's.... I don't think anyone waiting in the RED camp even seriously look at what Canon is doing (never mind jumping ship)
FS7: Would You Buy A Canon C200
- Thread starter Liam Hall
- Start date
I've been scratching my head about the C200 ever since the NDA press briefing last week. 5:1 RAW Lite???? With 1 CFast 2.0 slot???? I can shoot 3:1 RAW or even 1:1 RAW with my Blackmagic Ursa Mini. With 2 CFast slots. At the press briefing, Canon folks were uncertain whether that RAW could be output to external recording device (Atomos or Odyssey) but I can't imagine that it cannot.
I've had no advance briefing on the Panasonic camera (but several colleagues will be speaking with Panasonic at CineGear under strict NDA). I have the feeling the Panasonic will be the camera to challenge the FS7 rather than the C200.
There is also a certain distrust in the market of Canon which seems to introduce cameras at a given price point only to reduce the price in a matter of months.
I think it was Dennis in an earlier post in the thread who said this is too little too late. I agree.
I should have my hands on one for review this summer and I'll withhold any real judgment until I can conduct some objective testing.
Ned Soltz
I've had no advance briefing on the Panasonic camera (but several colleagues will be speaking with Panasonic at CineGear under strict NDA). I have the feeling the Panasonic will be the camera to challenge the FS7 rather than the C200.
There is also a certain distrust in the market of Canon which seems to introduce cameras at a given price point only to reduce the price in a matter of months.
I think it was Dennis in an earlier post in the thread who said this is too little too late. I agree.
I should have my hands on one for review this summer and I'll withhold any real judgment until I can conduct some objective testing.
Ned Soltz
deltoidjohn
Veteran
You may be right with reference to the Red fanboys, but this camera will still win over the much smarter folks (tongue in cheek) who are less brand agnostic.
I think Canon and Red share more similarities than you might think in terms of the types of people using them - there's a lot of folk who grew up or learned with DSLR's and to them, a DSLR/DSMC style camera is all they've ever used. Cx00 series and the Red's both appeal to that market because of that familiar layout.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Ned
I get your comfusion. It seems unclear if the c200 is a c700 crash cam / drone cam or a fs5 competitior.
As the first it makes a lot of sense maybe?
I get your comfusion. It seems unclear if the c200 is a c700 crash cam / drone cam or a fs5 competitior.
As the first it makes a lot of sense maybe?
Nirv
Carbonite Member
Finally someone who does not run H.264 into the ground on this forum and claim that ProRes is the only true faith!
It's important to remain pragmatic.
I'm pretty sure 90% of C200 owners would choose 10bit 422 XAVC like codec 90% of the time. I think the codec choices Canon has made for the C200 are puzzling, I mean, who is interested in 8 bits at this level and the only option for better IQ is to shoot compressed RAW at a fairly heavy bitrate?
How heavy will the RAW Light feel to edit? I never gave a second thought to throwing several streams of XAVC-I into my timeline because it was so damn easy to edit.
FrameFarmMedia
Veteran
This is my sense also. I'm excited to see what Pana brings as I have been a fan before I was a Sony owner and I really like what the Varicam LT has done. If they keep the same sensor. Dual ISO and competative frame rates it will be a winner.
Nothing about the C200 interests me. Internal 10bit 422 XAVC-I codec is my business sweet spot. That is the reason I jumped and pre-ordered the FS7 years ago. If I'm honest with myself there is really nothing I'm coming across now that my FS7 can't accomodate and its more than paid itself off. The thought of dropping a bundle again that I have to earn back in a few years doesn't appeal to me. It feels nice to not feel the need to jump on anything new and add debt to my business. It almost feels like we are returning to a sense of normal like the odl days where the upgrade cycle was much much slower.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
While I find the FS7 is a solid performer and offers a great image per GB shot (with resultant fast = cheap workflow) do you guys seriously not want a slightly deeper file (on occasion)
S
S
Yes thats true.. things seem to have calmed down a bit.. basically now if you have a s35m sensor camera.. can provide 10bit 422 HD or 4K readily editable files.. some productions might want specific lenses .. or at least something fast enough to get an out of focus background in all but the tiniest of rooms.. your off to the races.
Gone at last the days of every request being a C300.. and at last most production people being a bit more educated .. ie knowing there are other s35 cameras besides the C300..
I dont know what canon are thinking with this camera.. Raw that no one can edit.. 15 mins on a 128GB card.. and only one card slot !! .. or 35Mbps 420 8 bit.. its almost the worst combination you could think of.. and lets retain the kettle cam design.. there is a Sony mole in their camera design dept for sure..
*** for the post before Morgans
Gone at last the days of every request being a C300.. and at last most production people being a bit more educated .. ie knowing there are other s35 cameras besides the C300..
I dont know what canon are thinking with this camera.. Raw that no one can edit.. 15 mins on a 128GB card.. and only one card slot !! .. or 35Mbps 420 8 bit.. its almost the worst combination you could think of.. and lets retain the kettle cam design.. there is a Sony mole in their camera design dept for sure..
*** for the post before Morgans
Nirv
Carbonite Member
Not if having it meant I'd have to be lumbered with 8 bit 4k.
If the C200 had XAVC-I like 4k 10bit 422 AND RAW Light then it would be a much better mix. I suspect 95% of the time I would've shot XAVC and the 5% made up of green screen or 'challenging' scenes I would've shot RAW Light. That seems a much better camera than the one Canon think people need.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I didnt mention any camera bar the FS7 - the question was - do users not find the file a bit thin?
And of course the logical follow up could be to move to a 1GBs codec.
I dont think the proxy mode on the C200 should be considered to be anything but that.
And of course the logical follow up could be to move to a 1GBs codec.
I dont think the proxy mode on the C200 should be considered to be anything but that.
Run&Gun
Veteran
I'm not in the market for this camera, but the ONE CFast slot does baffle me, since it seems that, at least right now, that the primary intended codec for this camera is the RAW Light. I want at least two slots, like my 300 or 55, so that you can roll right over into a second card if the first runs out. What I REALLY like is the five slots in my P2 Vari, though...
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Indeed you are not in the market. If you put the camera on a drone the batts only last 15 mins so one card is enough and you praise the low mass that only having one card gives... and if you crash the thing you praise that it is only $6g and get out your spare
Michael Thames
Carbonite Member
I don't think thats what he's talking about. Morgan_moore if I may translate his comment is asking, do you not want 12 bit 422 4K raw with 15 stops (on occasion)? Just get a 512 GB C-fast card and be done with it! Not everyone who has a C100 is into making corporate docs, and broadcast news. If there are those most likely they already have a Blade laying around!
I've tried to shoot raw on my 5D3 with ML but Resolve does not play well on my Macbook Pro so its never been possible. The exciting thing for many of us is the new Raw-lite codec. As thing progress this will be more the standard. Remember how everyone freaked out about 4K file size a few years ago. Now I don't hear anyone complaining.
imagine being able to edit video like you edit photos in Lightroom without the crazy freaking workflow of dealing with raw DNG files! Yea, not having 10 bit is a drag, but on the other hand does your FS7 shoot 12 bit 4K raw-lite that are manageable and editable, does the FS7 have the best auto -focus, and work well with Canon lenses?
The price of the C300 MKII will surely drop or they will add a raw-lite codec in a future firmware. If the price drops, then you will have a choice between an FS7 or a C300 MKII. I know which one I would buy.
Michael Thames
Carbonite Member
There was a poster here who already jumped-ship from Red to the C200. BTW, have you had the opportunity to compare Canon's raw-lite with Reds?
Nirv
Carbonite Member
Indeed you are not in the market. If you put the camera on a drone the batts only last 15 mins so one card is enough and you praise the low mass that only having one card gives... and if you crash the thing you praise that it is only $6g and get out your spare
Why risk your own production camera and pay for extra insurance when drone ops with decent cams are dirt cheap?
Why break down your camera rig for a drone when you could be setting up ready to record once drone op has finished filming?
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
'I' have a C700 which is on my Ronford slider- my drone op has a C200 and it matches quite well
Probably 'I' own none of this stuff I just specced it out.
-
Im just making the point that this camera seems perfect lil sister to a C700, and a total fail, as everyone else suggests, as a 'new fs7'
But not every camera has to be the new FS7
S
Probably 'I' own none of this stuff I just specced it out.
-
Im just making the point that this camera seems perfect lil sister to a C700, and a total fail, as everyone else suggests, as a 'new fs7'
But not every camera has to be the new FS7
S
Nirv
Carbonite Member
What evidence do you have that 4k RAW light is indeed manageable and editable? It might be a complete dog to work with. You're talking to the wrong person if you think you'll get anywhere wrt Canon DSLR lenses. Not my bag.
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Ever wonder why ARRI, RED, & even BM, offer ProRes as well as Raw?
Nirv
Carbonite Member
'I' have a C700 which is on my Ronford slider- my drone op has a C200 and it matches quite well
Probably 'I' own none of this stuff I just specced it out.
-
Im just making the point that this camera seems perfect lil sister to a C700, and a total fail, as everyone else suggests, as a 'new fs7'
S
Always a lot of fun your invented scenarios.
FrameFarmMedia
Veteran
Have fun shooting off speed with 8bit mp4 and 10 bit raw.