icarusfilm
Veteran
What you actually want is and external recorder recording Log and burnt in LUT on the xqd cards.
FS7: Would You Buy A Canon C200
- Thread starter Liam Hall
- Start date
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
..apart from I dont want some block of sh_it dangling off my camera with the important data going through some sketchy cable. Much better Cfast/XQD catching the good stuff while a SD card gets lutted thin stuff... exactly as per the C200 and every stills camera since 2003.
Nirv
Carbonite Member
My former colleagues have 2x256GB XQD cards in the FS7 shoot everything that moves (twice!) (obscene shooting ratio!) and carve up everything in post and make no distinction between good stuff and FB quality stuff. FCPX is so fast for organisation they pick out the wheat from the chaff and apply LUTs in RT there is no need for LUTted proxy workflow.
1 CFast slot would be more limiting to the above yoof's shoot first think later approach. This seems to be the way kiddos want to work.
icarusfilm
Veteran
Everyone has a pet cause. I wish I could use Chanel 3 and 4 without the Xda and the shitty Sony interface. Probably every user here will have a valid idea. I've used editready to produce online clips you can add a lut, resize change codec and it's very fast.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
4 chan audio.. YES yes.
--
IMO canon are a little ahead when it comes to questions like these..
Sony..
Weve got this lot.. LUTs, HFR, 4 Chan audio, cache record.. awesome
When actually it is
LUTs.. in one mode and not during playback or HFR
2 chan audio? but not during HFR
4chan audio? but not without a handle and our lavs
cache record? it get forgotten when you disengage HFR
--
IMO canon are a little ahead when it comes to questions like these..
Sony..
Weve got this lot.. LUTs, HFR, 4 Chan audio, cache record.. awesome
When actually it is
LUTs.. in one mode and not during playback or HFR
2 chan audio? but not during HFR
4chan audio? but not without a handle and our lavs
cache record? it get forgotten when you disengage HFR
Yes - agree with this. And even if we don't like working this way, it seems lots of clients do. Don't adapt at your own peril.
jasonbrooks
Well-known member
Sam, I think you would get great eventual rewards by putting a half-hour at some point into creating some 'All Files'. When I've had requirements like these in past jobs I've always setup two different All Files, one for HFR-1080, and another for 4k-50 (in fact those are the exact names I gave them!). You can also add the All File menu item into your user menu shortcuts. This way it's only two or three menu presses to switch modes. Not sure if this fixes the cache bug you mentioned, as I've never used it (maybe I should try it!).
The only delay then is the now relatively insignificant 'changing modes' delay, rather than the (I agree, nauseating) menu-mining.
Hope that helps,
jason
icarusfilm
Veteran
there will be a C200B a body only version without viewfinder, monitor etc. for $6K.
That can be an attractive solution as a raw only dedicated cam.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...expansion-of-cinema-eos-system-300466188.html
That can be an attractive solution as a raw only dedicated cam.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...expansion-of-cinema-eos-system-300466188.html
jasonbrooks
Well-known member
You can, you need to buy an XLR-KM1 or 2. One (1) can only connect directly onto the MI-shoe, and the other (2) come with the MI-interface on a 6" dongle (oh er missus). I was using my KM2 last week to record 3x lavs + shotgun into the FS7. Ever-so-slightly raised noise floor compared to the internals, but it's definitely useable for 99% of OMB stuff.
jason
Cary Knoop
Veteran
Finally someone who does not run H.264 into the ground on this forum and claim that ProRes is the only true faith!
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
XAVC-I is the codec to have or any similar one. I bet we'll see it in the new FS5 mkII this fall.
Michael Thames
Carbonite Member
Does a bear Shite in the woods?
Joshua Milligan
Well-known member
Man, I'll admit it. I'm considering the C200.
I'll start by saying that I love my FS7. 10-bit 4:2:2 in both HD up to 180 fps and 4K up to 60 fps is awesome. The color may not be quite as sexy as Canon's, but you can make it look good. The high bitrates and solid codec makes it have a great IQ. It's good in low light and works great in both Cine EI and Custom modes. 4 channels of audio is awesome (or 3 if you use Sony wireless mics and the SMAD-P3 adapter). The camera feels good on the shoulder and is relatively easy to operate. I love XQD cards and having two slots is great.
There's a ton more I like about the FS7, but this new Canon camera is appealing. It's smaller, lighter and has an awesome autofocus. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I wished I had autofocus. When filming in the mountains or trying to stay on fast moving wildlife, it's tough. Heck, even fast paced event shooting can be a pain without it. I think combining its weight and size with its amazing autofocus will make filming so much easier.
Those features alone make it tempting to me. That and the fact that I use Canon lenses already. I think that if Canon can quit fooling around and give it a solid medium codec at the beginning of 2018, I might jump on it. I just really want them to make it 10-bit 4:2:2 internal up to 4K 60p with decent bitrates. I know they said it'll likely be 8-bit 4:2:2, but maybe they will end up giving it what I want. If they can't make that happen, then I don't know.
I'll start by saying that I love my FS7. 10-bit 4:2:2 in both HD up to 180 fps and 4K up to 60 fps is awesome. The color may not be quite as sexy as Canon's, but you can make it look good. The high bitrates and solid codec makes it have a great IQ. It's good in low light and works great in both Cine EI and Custom modes. 4 channels of audio is awesome (or 3 if you use Sony wireless mics and the SMAD-P3 adapter). The camera feels good on the shoulder and is relatively easy to operate. I love XQD cards and having two slots is great.
There's a ton more I like about the FS7, but this new Canon camera is appealing. It's smaller, lighter and has an awesome autofocus. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I wished I had autofocus. When filming in the mountains or trying to stay on fast moving wildlife, it's tough. Heck, even fast paced event shooting can be a pain without it. I think combining its weight and size with its amazing autofocus will make filming so much easier.
Those features alone make it tempting to me. That and the fact that I use Canon lenses already. I think that if Canon can quit fooling around and give it a solid medium codec at the beginning of 2018, I might jump on it. I just really want them to make it 10-bit 4:2:2 internal up to 4K 60p with decent bitrates. I know they said it'll likely be 8-bit 4:2:2, but maybe they will end up giving it what I want. If they can't make that happen, then I don't know.
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chappelldigital
Well-known member
Seems a bit strange...
I'm sure it'll sell a ton... but I cant believe Canon announces a new camera and I'm still writing "8-bit 420 "...UGH! lol
For example - I shot 12 corporate interviews today.
Raw would have been ridiculous to deal with..... and the C200 does 8 bit 420 internal ... (apparently 8 bit 422 with 2018 firmware). So... why buy a $10k camera (in Canadian $$), when I'd shoot the same codec as a C100 mk1, or A7s ???!?! Of course it offers more... but it could be so .. much... more...!
Not something I'd consider as something to replace my FS7 unfortunately.
I'm sure it'll sell a ton... but I cant believe Canon announces a new camera and I'm still writing "8-bit 420 "...UGH! lol
For example - I shot 12 corporate interviews today.
Raw would have been ridiculous to deal with..... and the C200 does 8 bit 420 internal ... (apparently 8 bit 422 with 2018 firmware). So... why buy a $10k camera (in Canadian $$), when I'd shoot the same codec as a C100 mk1, or A7s ???!?! Of course it offers more... but it could be so .. much... more...!
Not something I'd consider as something to replace my FS7 unfortunately.
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icarusfilm
Veteran
On Friday Panasonic will reveal their new cine cam. If its a scaled down Varicam LT with 10 bit internal and varicam color and comes in under 10k it could be a winner. But even then I am not switching till its out and has a fully functional Firmware no more beta testing.
starcentral
Veteran
C200 is like release of the F3... 7 years ago! A bit late to the party.
It's going to be a great camera no doubt, but it's really not a lot better than a DSLR with log. Remember the 150mbps Canon is quoting is probably at 60p so realistically you're looking at 60mbps @ 24p in 8-bit 420 versus sony's 240mbps @ 24p 10-bit 422. The RAW seems sort of interesting and touch screen AF.
Still sure this will sell tons but not pry a Sony out of existing owner's hands.
It's going to be a great camera no doubt, but it's really not a lot better than a DSLR with log. Remember the 150mbps Canon is quoting is probably at 60p so realistically you're looking at 60mbps @ 24p in 8-bit 420 versus sony's 240mbps @ 24p 10-bit 422. The RAW seems sort of interesting and touch screen AF.
Still sure this will sell tons but not pry a Sony out of existing owner's hands.
Joshua Milligan
Well-known member
I am intrigued by that camera, but I can't imagine it having autofocus (at least AF like the Canon line has). That's what is so appealing to me. I can only imagine how much that would help on run & gun shoots.
deltoidjohn
Veteran
I'm not at all interested in this new camera.
It's headline features - 4K RAW & dual pixel AF - are things I've never wanted, and always choose not to use even when I have the option (still haven't installed the RAW firmware upgrade on my Shogun Inferno!).
I hate the Cx00 form factor, it drives me insane every time I use one. It's even worse as a 1AC when you're dealing with cables going all over the place and constantly having to rebuild the rig for different uses at someone else's request. It only really works for those people who want to shoot stripped-down solo run-n-gun short-form DSLR-style stuff.
Most of all it misses the mark on the one thing a lot of shooters really need to entice them up from a lower-tiered cameras: a broadcast friendly, edit-ready codec.
Having said all that, I think Canon have made a conscious decision not to go head to head with the FS7 or even FS5. Instead they have analysed the market and seen exactly where there is demand that is not being met - Low cost, 4K RAW in a box, with the reliable IQ & colour science of a major player (the one thing the BM 4.6k is missing!). Luckily for Canon, they knew the demand was there for this product thanks to the Red Raven. I think this is aimed squarely at the people still queued up waiting for their Ravens.
It's headline features - 4K RAW & dual pixel AF - are things I've never wanted, and always choose not to use even when I have the option (still haven't installed the RAW firmware upgrade on my Shogun Inferno!).
I hate the Cx00 form factor, it drives me insane every time I use one. It's even worse as a 1AC when you're dealing with cables going all over the place and constantly having to rebuild the rig for different uses at someone else's request. It only really works for those people who want to shoot stripped-down solo run-n-gun short-form DSLR-style stuff.
Most of all it misses the mark on the one thing a lot of shooters really need to entice them up from a lower-tiered cameras: a broadcast friendly, edit-ready codec.
Having said all that, I think Canon have made a conscious decision not to go head to head with the FS7 or even FS5. Instead they have analysed the market and seen exactly where there is demand that is not being met - Low cost, 4K RAW in a box, with the reliable IQ & colour science of a major player (the one thing the BM 4.6k is missing!). Luckily for Canon, they knew the demand was there for this product thanks to the Red Raven. I think this is aimed squarely at the people still queued up waiting for their Ravens.
icarusfilm
Veteran
Its basically a red raven that can also double as a c100 Mark2