would it be a bad idea...

Steve Laramie

Steve Laramie

Veteran
if I decided to just put my rode ntg2 on a mic stand running a 100ft xlr cable back to my hvx to film wedding ceremonies instead of buying a lavalier? I dont trust wireless stuff that requieres setup on both sides id rather stick with mic stands.
 
can i record with both channels then choose which channel i want in post? im using fcp. also how would you set the sennheiser g2 to be sensitive enough to get the bride groom and celebrant while not being too loud for the groom? I dont think it would sound good to cut between the 2 mics
 
I've had a couple weddings where running a cable to a shotgun wasn't going to fly with either the wedding party or the wedding planner.... so I ran a shotgun with a wireless plug-on transmitter on one channel and a wireless lav on the groom.

During one outdoor ceremony, the bride and groom were making quiet comments to each other, and the lav did a great job of picking up both of them and the officiant. In my case, I had a soft spoken groom, a bit louder bride, and a much louder officiant -- so it worked to my advantage. I just set levels based on the groom, and if necessary, pushed them up a bit in post for the bride, if necessary.

The shotgun was used to pick up the audio of a string quartet, and then it was moved by an assistant to pick up various people who performed readings. But, as long as you know which channel has the best audio, you can generally do a good job mixing them in post. If you get lucky, most of your audio can come off the lav, though.
 
You may have a third option. Get a lav and connect it to a Zoom H4 or H2. Let the person wearing the lav carry the Zoom in their pocket. No wireless required.

.
 
oh its a recorder. whats it record to? and how easy would it be to sync it with 24p video. Would i need some sort of syncing method like a slate?
 
lairhair said:
Would i need some sort of syncing method like a slate?
Click to expand...


You'd need a miracle!

Recording to a zoom with a lav & letting someone just carry on with it would be a syncing nightmare. At the very least you would need a slate & i'm sure the wedding party would be just pleased to hear that thing going off, or someone constantly clapping their hands for the camera.

Weddings are long, tiring, and tape consuming(or p2), and your not even into editing that very long day yet. Just try syncing up an hour of footage with no slate & your into very tedious editing that may or may not look like a chinese subtitled wedding ceremony.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Steve
 
A nightmare? It wasn't when I used an H4 to record audio for my son's wedding. Or when I used it to record audio for a feature film. We didn't slate the wedding, and I had very little trouble synching it -- I used the audio from the camera mics as a guide. We did use a slate with the feature shoot, but I still mainly synched it manually, using the camera audio as a guide.

It's not that tough.

Steve, the H4 records to SD cards. I synched it with 24p video with very little problem. Maybe I'm just lucky. :)

.
 
chapelgrovefilms said:
A nightmare? It wasn't when I used an H4 to record audio for my son's wedding. Or when I used it to record audio for a feature film. We didn't slate the wedding, and I had very little trouble synching it -- I used the audio from the camera mics as a guide. We did use a slate with the feature shoot, but I still mainly synched it manually, using the camera audio as a guide.

It's not that tough.

Steve, the H4 records to SD cards. I synched it with 24p video with very little problem. Maybe I'm just lucky. :)

.
Click to expand...

I also have very good success with the H4 when used in low budget films. Something simple and easy to work with, TC having no importance.
 
Based on my experience, it takes just seconds to synch a clip. I don't know what difference shooting P2 makes. Why should it make any?

In full blown filmmaking, editors synch externally recorded sound all the time. It's a great skill to develop. :)
 
chapelgrovefilms said:
In full blown filmmaking, editors synch externally recorded sound all the time. It's a great skill to develop. :)
Click to expand...

True, with TC slates. The reason slates and TC are used is to simplify & pinpoint the accuracy of the process, which inferes a difficulty attempting to sync sound with no reference points. Yes it can be done, but can be very time consuming.

If you are running a long 15-30 minute segment of footage & need to sync it, you sync it once for that 15-30 minute clip. If you have several different cuts, you have several different syncs and that can be very time consuming.

I have also done this freehand & I found it a pain to lock the video and adjust the audio track until it was synched. There were several cuts and for me it was tedius.

The original poster did not give me the impression that he was experienced doing this task & trying to sync audio the first time this way could be very frustrating.

Steve
 
lairhair said:
can i record with both channels then choose which channel i want in post? im using fcp.
Click to expand...

You can absolutely do that. It's a very common technique, actually.

also how would you set the sennheiser g2 to be sensitive enough to get the bride groom and celebrant while not being too loud for the groom? I dont think it would sound good to cut between the 2 mics
Click to expand...

That I can't answer...
 
I would be open to the external recorder if it was a real film not a wedding video. I cant have any problems with wedding videos if the bride ends up looking like a kung fu dubbed movie ill never hear the end of it. Thanks though ill look into this recorder for real movies.
 
Synching externally recorded sound is definitely not going to make the bride look like a kung fu dubbed movie. It works just fine for lots of people here, including me.

Yes, pro film crews use TC slates. But they're synching for a 10-story tall screen and the audio throw of a movie theater, which is painstakingly precise. Wedding videos and movies shot for direct-to-DVD don't need nearly that kind of precision.

All I can say is it works just fine for me. You do what you think is best.

Good luck!

.
 
lairhair said:
also how would you set the sennheiser g2 to be sensitive enough to get the bride groom and celebrant while not being too loud for the groom? I dont think it would sound good to cut between the 2 mics
Click to expand...

The only solution to this is either to ride the levels during the shoot (a bad idea) or adjust the levels in post (recommended). Set your recording level for the loudest person, to avoid clipping and distortion. Then boost the levels of the others in post.

.
 
If you set up a lav with a recorder and do not monitor you are playing with fire. Be sure to triple check the lav is placed well and secured so it doesn't shift later, or you could find all your audio is covered in clothing noise. With something like a B6 you could hide the lav in a lapel flower if he has one. I would ask if the mic even needs to be hidden. I see preachers with visable lavs all the time, a black lav on a black tuxedo will be barely noticable to most people.

After that you have the issues of levels. When people get nervous the often raise or lower their voice dramatically and standing in front of a room full of people to make the most important decision of their life tends to throw most people for a loop no matter how much they think they are prepared. You won't know which way they will go until you are in the moment. Not having done weddings I would say set the levels low if you are working with something without a good limiter. Higher end w/l have good limiters that will save you from complete disaster if someone goes really loud. Cheap recorders and w/l don't have good limiters.

When you break it down renting a good Lectro for the day is gonna be the safest bet. If this is a pro gig then the ~$50 shouldn't kill your budget for the day.

If you go the recorder route I would make sure to have some sort of secure and monitorable backup. If you can pull off a cable run to the podium or something, do it. Better to have a weak track from a couple of feet away then almost no track from wherever your camera is if the pocket recorder fails.

If you use TOD TC and then note the time of when you start the recorder and that can get you in the ballpark for finding sync points. Then sync up to the waveform of your camera audio. As already stated, you will need to make corrections over time as the the clocks on the devices will not be locked.

There are many places this can go south on you and you won't find out until later. Renting the proper equipment is really the safest route. If you start doing a lot of wedding business then buying a good w/l should be no problem budget wise. Using cheap or improper equipment can end your business plans before it begins (assuming you are planning to do wedding professionally).

Cheers
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top