workstation to process gh1 footage

Blackout said:
Edius Neo Boost REMOVES the pulldown of GH1 1080p?????? are you SURE of this, or it just edits with it correctly left it?

meaning you output to a 23.976 mp4 correctly with NO stutters anywhere, no mixed frames?
Click to expand...
Edius does not change the original MTS files from the GH1. It just interprets them correctly, so that when you load an MTS file into Edius, it will play it back perfectly as if it was 1080p23.98 natively. Any edits you make are as if the footage was 1080p23.98. And when you export your timeline into your format of choice (wmv/mov/mts/etc), it will be correctly rendered as if it was 1080p23.98. So from a user's point of view, it makes the GH1 MTS files COMPLETELY PAINLESS in all respects.
 
I just ordered the core i7 27 inch iMac the other day.

So it's got:
2.8Ghz core i7 (4 Hyper threaded cores)
a 27 inch 2560x1440 IPS monitor (mmm high res)
8GB ram

I guess the weakest point is the GPU, it's an ATI Radeon 4850 but it's 512MB ram.

Pretty excited, should ship sometime this week. I'm going to put FCP 7 on it. I'll let you know how it performs.

I've already got a promise firewire raid array (2.7TB formatted including parity, raid 6)

I'm very much an amateur, so this machine is WAY overkill, but I got a decent price so I figured I'd buy something that will last several years. So much power in unskilled hands can only be bad...

-kap
 
noirist said:
Edius does not change the original MTS files from the GH1. It just interprets them correctly, so that when you load an MTS file into Edius, it will play it back perfectly as if it was 1080p23.98 natively. Any edits you make are as if the footage was 1080p23.98. And when you export your timeline into your format of choice (wmv/mov/mts/etc), it will be correctly rendered as if it was 1080p23.98. So from a user's point of view, it makes the GH1 MTS files COMPLETELY PAINLESS in all respects.
Click to expand...

Nooo way! I can't believe this.... that averts so many headaches... I am downloading the trial version now to test this out. If this CORRECTLY removes pulldown right from the actual mts files without havig to transcode to this gigantic intermediate files, I shall do a little Irish dance of joy.
 
noirist said:
Edius does not change the original MTS files from the GH1. It just interprets them correctly, so that when you load an MTS file into Edius, it will play it back perfectly as if it was 1080p23.98 natively. Any edits you make are as if the footage was 1080p23.98. And when you export your timeline into your format of choice (wmv/mov/mts/etc), it will be correctly rendered as if it was 1080p23.98. So from a user's point of view, it makes the GH1 MTS files COMPLETELY PAINLESS in all respects.
Click to expand...

Ok Noirist... I think you are making up fantasy or are not looking close enough.

I downloaded the rial of Edius Neo Booster 2, set it to 1080p 23.98.. imported my gh1 mts files, and while it SEEMED to work on some clips.. it did not on others, and there were definitely interlace errors, leading me to believe it can not and does not to what you say and recongnize and remove the pulldown correctly.

I threw a bunch of native gh1 1080 clips on a 24p timeline, and rendered out to a 1080 24p h264 mpeg4... and while some things seemed to look right, others had weird interlace errors.. and I cried... you built up my hopes and dreams that a program could handle this...


Please tell me I am just doing something wrong...

I'll upload my little test for you to see and link it here so you can see the issues in a moment..
 
Blackout said:
Ok Noirist... I think you are making up fantasy or are not looking close enough.

I downloaded the rial of Edius Neo Booster 2, set it to 1080p 23.98.. imported my gh1 mts files, and while it SEEMED to work on some clips.. it did not on others, and there were definitely interlace errors, leading me to believe it can not and does not to what you say and recongnize and remove the pulldown correctly.

I threw a bunch of native gh1 1080 clips on a 24p timeline, and rendered out to a 1080 24p h264 mpeg4... and while some things seemed to look right, others had weird interlace errors.. and I cried... you built up my hopes and dreams that a program could handle this...


Please tell me I am just doing something wrong...

I'll upload my little test for you to see and link it here so you can see the issues in a moment..
Click to expand...

There are definitely some settings at the clip level that have to be tweaked it seems - I'm still working on figuring it out, actually, if you drop the clips straigt in the 23.98 timeline Edius sees the GH1 1080 clips as 29.97fps interlaced files when you click on the properties of the clip itself, here you can adjust the frame rate and whether or not you want the clip to be read as interlaced or progressive - on some settings you will get the interlace problems, and on others you will not - so I'm still playing around with it to find the best settings - if anyone has an actual workflow figured out for this, it would be very helpful, and I'll bet if we can get enough people to test it out that we can accomplish this!
 
Edius Neo Booster 2

Edius Neo Booster 2

thisisapocalypse said:
There are definitely some settings at the clip level that have to be tweaked it seems - I'm still working on figuring it out, actually, if you drop the clips straigt in the 23.98 timeline Edius sees the GH1 1080 clips as 29.97fps interlaced files when you click on the properties of the clip itself, here you can adjust the frame rate and whether or not you want the clip to be read as interlaced or progressive - on some settings you will get the interlace problems, and on others you will not - so I'm still playing around with it to find the best settings - if anyone has an actual workflow figured out for this, it would be very helpful, and I'll bet if we can get enough people to test it out that we can accomplish this!
Click to expand...

BOOM you hit it on the head. I ran Edius and set it up for 1080 23.98 (which is a little weird isn't everything 23.976?)

I imported all my 1080 24p GH1 native clips... it sees them as 1080 at 29.97.
I went and put some clips on the time line and did some edits. In one of them, I right clicked on the properties of each native GH1 clip and changed it to 23.98p... and I did an edit and rended out to mpeg 4 23.976 p that way.


On another, I left just set the project of edius to 1920 x 1080 23.98.. and din't mess with any of the properties of the gh1 clips, I just imported them

I got mixed results on both...

It seemed the NOT changing the properties in the GH1 clips faired better... and I when i rendered out I got some stunning things that looked like it handled the 1080 24p correctly and removed the pulldown, but on other clips I got all sorts of weirdness.. strobes, interlace artifacts, and even some strange speed changes or stuttering...strobing of sorts.

I am going to upload my two tests to my server so you can download the actual mp4 and see whats going on... I RELLY REALLY want this two work..

my fear is.. it will only work on a straight clip, and when you start doing dissopved or edits it loses the proper alignment of the fields into 24p frames.

That another thing, as it is set, it sets everything to upper field first... do you go and click on every clip and change it to progressive? I tried that and got the dreaded interlace sliced images...

Very confusing as to whether this can work or not and if anyone has the PROPER working workflow for this PLEASE post it!

- Blackout
 
OK this is driving me mad.. I have been tweaking for hours...

Basically.. it works perfect on one ONE clip... you set Edius to 1920 x 1080 23.98....
you import the native gh1 1080 clips encased in 60i, edius sees them as 1920 1080 at 29.97
with the upper field being dominant. Don't bother changing the gh1 clips to 23.98 or progressive or anything of that - it will produce disaster. LEave them as they are and put them on the edius 24p timeline.

You view them in the trim monitor,,.. or view them on the timeline, they look perfect... no studder.. seems to play 24p correctly removing pulldown and interlace issues....

render one clip out to 24p mpeg 4 - beautiful, it DID in fact remove the pulldown it seems..

have any sort of complex edit where you are dissolving clips into another and forget it... the field order gets messed up, and you will ether get one or two clips with field issues or double vision or stroby wrong motion issues from trying to catch up and make a progressive image from the interlace fields. Even though all your setting on all clips are the same.

I tried every combo of changing the frame rate, fiel order, progressive... ect... it does not work to edit a full project. Either one clip works and they other looks weird or vice versa... depeding on the length of the dissolve or where I cut.

Unless I am COMPLETELY missing something.

To a novice, you might get lucky and it blends ok cause it doesnt hit a field problem.. but i took a close look at the same footage with pulldown removed from neoscene, and then the output from editing native files from neo booster 2... and no go.. it's slight in some scenes but there are interlace artifacts - especially on small details in wide shots.. they are there. It's too bad because it puts out a damn clean image near exact to the original otherwise.

DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL PANSONIC for this 24p in 60i BULLshi*!!! and making it the most complex thing in the world to edit your 24p movies correctly. May your engineers children suffer in purgatory.
 
When you created your project did you use one of their project presets or did you create one of your own? What are your exact project settings?
 
Hardware : Generic OHCI
Video
Frame size : 1920 x 1080
Frame rate : 23.98( 24000/1001 )
Pixel aspect : 1.0000
Field order : Progressive
Audio
Rate : 48000Hz
Sample size : 16 Bit
Channel : 2
Setup
Render format : Canopus HQ Standard
Over Scan Size : 0 %
Audio Reference Level : -20.0dB
 
I don't have my Edius install in front of me but if memory serves your settings look right. When you step through the frames one at a time in the player you should count exactly 24 frames every second with no interlacing artifacts.

What edit did you apply that exposed the interlacing? And what settings did you use for your "output to file"?

Boy I hope I haven't mislead you! I'm traveling so I won't be able to try your footage until next week. If you upload the MTS file from your GH1 to your server (or to vimeo) I will take a look at it as soon as I can.

P.S. When I tested Neoscene, it definitely screwed up the first few seconds of the clip. What version of Neoscene are you using and what settings are you using for that?
 
My head is going to explode from toying with this for the past 9 hours...

When I step throw the frames one at a time it looks right.. when I play any individual clip in the clip trimmer window it looks right.... no studder.. no double frames.. motion cadence of 24p is correct...

but.. in editing together a 3 minute piece for a test.... there were issues, even when playing bakc right on the time line... after some dissolves, the clip after the dissolve would have issues... strobe or motion porblems... speed issues...

I rendered out h624 avc 1920 x 1080 23.98 progressive

some of it looks nice... but there are issues.. I don't think it is doing pulldown correctly and I dont think it can.. i think you may just be lucky or not notice it like some of the final cut people who think final cut handles pulldown correctly right in the timeline

I have that.. exhausted sitting in front of the computer wracking my head feeling right now because if this worked it would be great and I would buy the program right now... (although I couldn't figure out the audio editing for the life of me)

I guess I can write them an email seeing if it does pulldown but my guess is you got a lucky render...



I am uploadig the clips to y
 
Here is one of the tests:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekc-WOlv61Q&hd=1


Some of the clips come out ok (make sure you watch it in 1080p) but there are weird speed changes in some street scenes with people walking thatI did not do, and with the cars and taxis... even with the motion looks right, like with the drug dealer looking guy standing by the pole as people walk by, look at the trees in the background.. interlace artifacts...


I cry... I cry...

Does anyone else here know how to make this work?
 
I've done dissolves w/o any problems on motion-intensive footage where its easy to see interlacing artifacts. Can you upload the original MTS file so that I can download it?
 
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yeah I will.. they are big I'll upload them to my server

strangely enough - youtube does something weird caused it fixed some of the problems on some scenes

Is there anyway to save the whole edius file into one big file including media, like how vegas does? so I could send it to you.. it would probably be smaller than the rendered files...
 
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You could put the media files in the Edius project directory by hand and then zip it up. But first let me try to recreate your interlacing problem with some of my own footage.
 
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