Workflow (good) News

Graeme_Nattress said:
If you shoot 4k RAW, and downconvert to 1080p for edit, then yes, there should be a way to go back to 4K in the future.
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Woah, are we talking about some kind of fractal compression (not sure if that's the best description) where a raw red clip will give you the resolution you want, and let you change it on the fly?

Edit in 720p, and the codec will draw 720p footage from the raw file. Change project settings to 2k, and the codec will now draw 2k images from the same raw file - built in proxies via the codec?
 
ColinSmith said:
Woah, are we talking about some kind of fractal compression (not sure if that's the best description) where a raw red clip will give you the resolution you want, and let you change it on the fly?

Edit in 720p, and the codec will draw 720p footage from the raw file. Change project settings to 2k, and the codec will now draw 2k images from the same raw file - built in proxies via the codec?
Click to expand...

Thats not something that is impossible but your essentially describing a real-time version of REDCINE that is directly integrated into the NLE. Youd probably need considerable horsepower and very robust platform support (like in Final Cut and such) to achieve what you are talking about.

But as Graeme mentioned, the principal of shooting RAW and having the ability to work with it in whatever format you want *is* the paradigm. However, it will require processing to pre-generate those proxies, atleast that is the info as of right now.
 
Emery Wells said:
Thats not something that is impossible but your essentially describing a real-time version of REDCINE that is directly integrated into the NLE. Youd probably need considerable horsepower and very robust platform support (like in Final Cut and such) to achieve what you are talking about.

But as Graeme mentioned, the principal of shooting RAW and having the ability to work with it in whatever format you want *is* the paradigm. However, it will require processing to pre-generate those proxies, atleast that is the info as of right now.
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Yup, I understand the problems, and I'd always assumed the lower res clips would need to be pre-generated, just for a moment there I thought I'd caught a hint of something else from Graham
Maybe it's where we're heading :grin:

Am I still getting a hint of some Red "assistance" in handling proxies in the workflow though?
 
Just to make sure, I get this right:
You can´t directly shoot 1080p for example, right? You always shoot in 4K and render the desired format afterwards.
 
Non-raw will work pretty much as you expect. Sorry we've not talked about it much, but recording 4k raw in camera is so big, it sort of blinded us to keep telling people we're still doing all the other stuff too.

Graeme
 
awesome

awesome

This is all sounding awesome Graeme - keep up the good work.

Sounds like you are giving us a huge choice of logical workflows.

I've just gotta make sure I can support the back end of RED!! Time to buy a new Mac tower and start saving for storage.

Look forward to hearing more.
:thumbsup:
 
sorry if I missed something but....
is redcode being developed to edit natively in the major apps(similar to CineForm)...or is it going to be a primarily capture format....with the emphasis on converting the footage to work on it.

I like the CineForm approach....very streamlined...capture and edit in the same codec.

:costumed-smiley-047
 
mdharrington said:
I like the CineForm approach....very streamlined...capture and edit in the same codec.
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We like it too. More cool features for CineForm RAW coming soon. We hope to be a recommended export format from REDCINE so that you can get the real-time editing benefits of CineForm RAW, even if you didn't get the direct capture benefits. You can always use a Wafian unit (that uses CineForm compression) on the Red's HDSDI outputs.
 
off hand - how does going from one type of RAW ( as in say RED raw) to another RAW ( as in cineform) go ?? would there some loss of res/color/contrast etc - raw to raw ? or do the 1's and 0's pretty much stay the same ?
 
As they both encode RAW as 10-bit wavelet, they will be no visibly introduced artifacting. Both compressors have a very light touch -- and it is certainly an advantage in going from wavelet to wavelet vs any other compressor type. As RAW represents what the image sensor "sees", there is no issue in the two RAW formats impacting "res/color/contrast" etc. RAW to RAW will be the best export solution as all your the post processing flexibility remains.
 
I like what I've heard about CineForm in the past. So, I like the prospect of the company's working together. Now, David- What would I need in my end to go from Red RAW to CineForm RAW? My final destination is Film out, If I shot 4k Redcine then edited Cineform, would I then have to go back to Redcine with an EDL or something. This thread has been talking about some exciting things to come, and you've introduced some possible workflows.

thanks,

Vladimir
Red #87
 
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I don't know if it will be possible but it would be nice. David Newman is a solid good name like Graeme Nattress is.
 
Vladimir,

Red and CineForm offices are only 50 minute drive apart, no reason we can't work very nicely together. :)

You would not need to return to Red RAW (via REDCINE) if you did you post in CineForm RAW, everything would be maintained. The CineForm RAW & Intermediate workflow is design to remove the off-line to on-line conform. You can edit the CineForm RAW directly within your NLE (Premiere Pro and soon FCP) and within your compositor at full resolution, dynamically to lower resolutions as needed, without ever rendering proxy files.
 
Both excellent news from David and Graeme. Even if the REDCODE will work for native editing and might ship with the cam, it is always good to be able to choose from alternatives.

For people who haven't used Cineform yet I must say that the 500 bugs for Aspect have been the best we spent on software in a long time. Realtime color correction and editing of 1080p even on my old 2.6GHz machine works like a charm.

We just ordered a killer Mac Pro with 4x 2.66GHz cores, 1.33GHz frontside bus and 4GB ram just to be used in Bootcamp and with Cineform.

Two questions for David. Do you think that this specification is getting close to what is needed for Cineform RAW 4k? (I can just imagine what current hardware configurations will be September next year when I hope to hold Red One #379 in my hands). Second, do you think it is reasonable to have an upgrade option for current Aspect users to Cineform RAW like there currently is for Prospect?

I really would like to see close cooperation between Red and Cineform.

I consider offline editing to be dead.
 
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Graeme_Nattress said:
Both for native editing and as a storage format. We have a number of (currently secret) flavours of REDCODE in the works.

Graeme
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I knew it I just KNEW IT. Come on guys Graeme signs off with

"__________________
www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP"

The dude obviously likes FCP enough to make plug ins for the dishy little NLE... as if he's not gonna make something so we can edit native red footage in FCP.

Combine that with the Mac Pro 8 core set ups that people are starting to test with the new quad core Intel chips coming out AND the massive amount of expansion for Mac GFX displays in the Mac Pro so you can display 4k, the simple conclusion is:

whoo.

I'm bettin the farm*

El Stupido

* actual poster may not own farm.
 
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