Wobbly image?

I'll probably have it some time next week. I sent mine back yesterday so I guess they will want to have a look at that unit first.
 
Thanks Norbert/Ron. I'll be surely buying it but only after your next report (you can also report it to Canon if you wish or need, probably have no need -- nevertheless your useful posts have been stopping several purchases; I know one more buyer/a customer of mine waiting...) -- PAL users.
 
I'll let you guys know as soon as I know.

I'm still confused though, if this should be considered a problem with PAL cameras only, then how come Austin had the same problem with his NTSC camera?
This is just a theory and I can't prove it in any way, but what if all HV20s have this problem and only a few owners see it as a problem?
Either that or there are just a few defective units of both PAL and NTSC.
 
I share the same POV, Ron.

I'm afraid the only member who can give us a proper enlightenment is Barry. I hope he may read our thoughts and findings here @dvxuser.com, @dvinfo.net and @hv20.com:

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=124&page=3

...and maybe he may help us to get a conclusion on the issue. And, of course. your own experience with your replacement unit.

In meantime, can you Barry help us once more until a last word on this whole hassle?
 
Wow, just played with it, trying to recreate Austin's shot. It's wobbly as heck! Bizarre. Slight rotation of the camera causes very weird squishing/stretching effects. Rolling shutter artifacting perhaps? Weird... weird weird weird.

Anyway, I don't know that what Austin and Norbert are getting is actually unusual for an HV20, nor do I think it's limited to PAL cams. Here's an example video that shows what I'm getting, trying to recreate that shot (handheld, holding it out in front in both hands, trying to be reasonably stable, full wide angle, etc). For comparison I did it in 24p with OIS and without OIS, and then I recreated the same shot on the HVX with & without OIS.

As always, right-click and "save as..." and remove the trailing "X".
http://www.icexpo.com/HV20/HV20-wobbles.mp4X

I mean, we hear a lot of complaints about the HVX's OIS, but even with the OIS off the HVX still looks like a steadicam as compared to the HV20's bouncy/jumpy/wobbly/stretchy image. Canon usually has great OIS, so I'm guessing it's a rolling shutter issue, but I really don't know. The OIS doesn't seem to make that much of a difference either.
 
when I right click with my mac there is no save as. All I get is a text.

Well I guess I can forget this camera!!
 
Not sure how to do it on a Mac, but the file's there on WinXP Windows Explorer.

I don't know that the HV20 needs to be "forgotten"... that seems a bit extreme. All depends on what you want to use it for. If you're using it as a helmetcam for a mountain biking show, yeah, I don't think you'll be happy. If you're shooting dramatic narrative on a tripod, the HV20 delivers amazing results for the price.
 
Barry_Green said:
Not sure how to do it on a Mac, but the file's there on WinXP Windows Explorer.

I don't know that the HV20 needs to be "forgotten"... that seems a bit extreme. All depends on what you want to use it for. If you're using it as a helmetcam for a mountain biking show, yeah, I don't think you'll be happy. If you're shooting dramatic narrative on a tripod, the HV20 delivers amazing results for the price.
Click to expand...



Barry I'm not planning on doing any hemet cam stuff!!

But I would like to be able to hand hold the camera sometimes. Man I can get a great set up from Zotz for like $1300. Camera, mic, wide angle, UV. For my limited use right now it might work pretty good. But if stuff moving in the video , wobbling around! That might suck.

I'm going to need to know more and see it. I thought this camera was going to be a good choice. But,,,,,,next choice $2600 for a DVX100b. I'm about ready to buy too.
 
Hopefully someone on a Mac will tell you how you can download that file, so you can see for yourself and decide whether it's an issue for you or not.
 
Barry_Green said:
Wow, just played with it, trying to recreate Austin's shot. It's wobbly as heck! Bizarre. Slight rotation of the camera causes very weird squishing/stretching effects. Rolling shutter artifacting perhaps? Weird... weird weird weird.

Anyway, I don't know that what Austin and Norbert are getting is actually unusual for an HV20, nor do I think it's limited to PAL cams. Here's an example video that shows what I'm getting, trying to recreate that shot (handheld, holding it out in front in both hands, trying to be reasonably stable, full wide angle, etc). (...) Canon usually has great OIS, so I'm guessing it's a rolling shutter issue, but I really don't know. The OIS doesn't seem to make that much of a difference either.
Click to expand...
Thanks Barry for your effort and test.

Your impression on the rolling shutter is mine too though my non-techie background.

Check the two Austin Meyers' samples:

http://file.meyersproduction.com/hv20/hv20 issues 720p.mov

http://file.meyersproduction.com/hv20/hv20 steady.mov

On the 1st it is the same thing than the Norbert's clip @post #1. But on the Austin's 2nd clip? There's no "the" same outcome. Why?

It seems this problem affects the PAL version more than the NTSC version. That's only that what I can conclude from the comparision.

At hv20.com we can find more complaints (it seems something similar):

http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=171

PAL unit again.

Shall it be fair to call it more noticeable with PAL than NTSC? I mean the rolling shutter issue?
 
maverickstunts said:
I right clicked and got save as and I am using my powerbook. don't know what to tell you. Same with ctl click.
Click to expand...


when I right click on barry's link there is no save as . Only

Open Link in New window
Download Linked file
Add link to bookmark
Copy Link

If I just open it I only get a text file. If I download it to my desk top. Only a text file and if I right click that still no "save as"
 
Hi Zim,
once you've got the file on your mac, just change the name of it by taking away the extention x.txt = that should give you a file with mp4 as extention and you can open it in quicktime.
 
pelai said:
Hi Zim,
once you've got the file on your mac, just change the name of it by taking away the extention x.txt = that should give you a file with mp4 as extention and you can open it in quicktime.
Click to expand...


that did the job thanks....
 
Barry_Green said:
Wow, just played with it, trying to recreate Austin's shot. It's wobbly as heck! Bizarre. Slight rotation of the camera causes very weird squishing/stretching effects. Rolling shutter artifacting perhaps? Weird... weird weird weird.

Anyway, I don't know that what Austin and Norbert are getting is actually unusual for an HV20, nor do I think it's limited to PAL cams. Here's an example video that shows what I'm getting, trying to recreate that shot (handheld, holding it out in front in both hands, trying to be reasonably stable, full wide angle, etc). For comparison I did it in 24p with OIS and without OIS, and then I recreated the same shot on the HVX with & without OIS.

As always, right-click and "save as..." and remove the trailing "X".
http://www.icexpo.com/HV20/HV20-wobbles.mp4X

I mean, we hear a lot of complaints about the HVX's OIS, but even with the OIS off the HVX still looks like a steadicam as compared to the HV20's bouncy/jumpy/wobbly/stretchy image. Canon usually has great OIS, so I'm guessing it's a rolling shutter issue, but I really don't know. The OIS doesn't seem to make that much of a difference either.
Click to expand...

The HVX looks great on both. The HV20 without OIS looks like crap. With OIS is ok. Still kinda of jumpy or something.

Barry run your DVX100 out on the porch!!
 
Emanuel said:
Thanks Barry for your effort and test.

Your impression on the rolling shutter is mine too though my non-techie background.

Check the two Austin Meyers' samples:

http://file.meyersproduction.com/hv20/hv20 issues 720p.mov

http://file.meyersproduction.com/hv20/hv20 steady.mov

On the 1st it is the same thing than the Norbert's clip @post #1. But on the Austin's 2nd clip? There's no "the" same outcome. Why?

It seems this problem affects the PAL version more than the NTSC version. That's only that what I can conclude from the comparision.

At hv20.com we can find more complaints (it seems something similar):

http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=171

PAL unit again.

Shall it be fair to call it more noticeable with PAL than NTSC? I mean the rolling shutter issue?
Click to expand...
Here is another problem report related:

http://hv20.com/showthread.php?t=189
 
This issue is definitely rolling shutter. The reason the PAL version seems more affected than the NTSC version is because of the higher clock speed to get to the 60i/60P required for NTSC, rather than the 50i/50P for PAL. Higher clock speeds equate to faster read-out times (faster time for the read-out from the top to the bottom of the sensor), which means less rolling shutter.
 
Thanks Jason for your contribution here. If Barry is the Pana guru, you are the 2K one (your SI/Cineform camera rocks -- I've seen the clips and you have there a quite achievement, Congrats and Kudos) and you can have something to tell considering your experience with the CMOS technology.

A few minutes ago, I posted there on subject (but taken this your input only 50% seems valid, granted your point):

http://hv20.com/showpost.php?p=1097&postcount=45

Posting that example:

LINK

25p@1/25 where the problem seems away.

What do you think? Is the shutter speed a good solution to handle with it?

Cheers,
Emanuel
 
Wow, so I was right all along? I hate it when I'm right...

EDIT: Emanuel, you are right, that 25p@1/25 clip is the only walking clip I have seen that doesn't wobble at all. How strange.
 
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