"Without Provocation" - a Norm Sanders (Envision) film

[Paul Coleman]

I'm one of very few women on these boards and will be one of very few women in Hollywood, I don't have time to be meek or to hide in fear of offending.

Charli, I just want to defuse things a bit. First, I think you are a good person; you are motivated, energetic, and you are a networker. You have definitely helped people in this community. There is nothing wrong with being honest, even "brutally" honest. But adding a bit of diplomacy to your reviews can be a way of making sure you don't de-motivate a fellow indie.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=964398&postcount=52

Being diplomatic will not cause people here to view you as "weak". And I don't think anyone here considers you less of a peer because you are female. You are already well liked in this community. :beer:

 

[-zach-]

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=964398&postcount=52

Paul, I think Brandon sets the perfect example for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

If you wish to continue this exchange, do so please privately as Norm's thread has been derailed enough.

I think this is the only fair thing you've said all day. I've tried to hold off on this subject, even edited my posts, because I still feel like I'm new and don't fit in that well. But it's getting ridiculous on other people's threads. If you guys want to continue the personal attacks (such as comparing brilliance), do it in PMs.


I was coming to this thread to thank Norm and all the positive contributors because I was just thinking, wow, I REALLY learned alot today, from a website. It's real world information with real people, and I'm learning it. I feel priveleged to be on here, I'd hate to see such rich content like this be soiled by bad attitudes.

 

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Paul, I think Brandon sets the perfect example for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

I think that's exactly why he was citing it.

... wow, I REALLY learned alot today, from a website. It's real world information with real people, and I'm learning it. I feel priveleged to be on here, I'd hate to see such rich content like this be soiled by bad attitudes.

I agree. And sorry for any sullying of that on my part. I care about this web site a great deal and how people are treated here. Sorry if I wasn't the best example today. But I care damnit My custom username says it all.

Similarly, I think everyone here came from passionate places with some merit and no one was being malicious for the sake of being malicious.

I think though, after Paul's great comments and your's Zach that there's not much more that could be said on this matter.

To sum both of you up to a degree:

"Charli is not a bad person. And we would all like the site to be as positive as possible because it is a great resource."

I think we can all agree on those two things and hopefully, finally give Norm, whose patience has surpassed us all, his thread back.

 

[Barry_Green]

Please do. Any further comments I find on this unrelated topic will find themselves mysteriously disappearing. :evil:

 

[Norm Sanders]

Playing catch up on the thread's comments!!

Playing catch up on the thread's comments!!

Holy cow I've got some catching up to do! I've been peeking in on the comments from time to time today, seeing them go all over from the film, to people's character, to how to take/handle critiques, etc. Now that it's calmed down & all seem to be taking a breath, I'll squeeze in some thoughts.

Norm, first off...I think it'd be really difficult to direct yourself in a scene. You've got no one there giving you an objective point of view and saying, 'no that didn't work, let's try something different'. Sure, you can watch playback but you're always going to be subjectively analyzing yourself.

Thanks for understanding how difficult it could/can be, Geoff. Shawn's convinced that you can't do both, at least not well. I disagre that you can't do both well, but I DO agree that you can't give both 100%. I choose to, however, continue to strive to do better in both areas with each film, since I rarely get opportunities to be in others'. That said, BERLIN, for example, I had cast someone else as the male lead, because I wanted to be able to focus more on the directorial side ... and was going to take a smaller bit part. Just depends on each case.

However, I will say that I do have an objective point of view; I've got it in Rebecca. If you look at the "Norm's Stress" clip, you'll see me talking to Rebecca to make sure she's watching me. I completely & without a doubt trust her judgement, and know she'll also give it to me straight. If she weren't around to work with, I know I'd not do as well on the acting side, that's for sure. She's also just great to act against/across from. The others were great as well (Shawn, Anita, Alecia, etc.), I just depended on Rebecca more for her feedback, as I did also on WSF.

The biggest thing I notice is improvement...you're getting better with each film, both on and off the screen. Same with Rebecca, she gave a really raw and visceral performance this time around; it wasn't carried with her dialogue but more so the facial expressions and body language.

So yea...long rant but I'm in favor of your acting

Thanks again, Geoff. Improvement is what it's all about! I don't believe in things being stagnent or nuetral, since most of life seems to always involve somekind of uphill battle ... you're either improving by pushing onward & upward, or you're rolling backwards. I'm glad you can see the impovement. Though others feel I was better in WSF, I personally feel best about my performance in this one.

A quote I discovered tonight, it may or may not be pertinent :thumbsup:

"Sometimes hysteria in production problems can be communicated successfully as energy up on the screen."
-Alexander Mackendrick

Word. :grin:

norm, just my 2 cents on your acting..... i thought you did well (much better than i could do, and much braver putting yourself on screen) and maybe it's just because I've seen your face on here a lot and know that you're a filmmaker, but i think it comes through in your acting that you're also the director. all the other actors get the luxury of just focusing on their character, but you have to juggle that with all the other responsibilities of the film and i think it shows in your acting. i get the feeling that your acting would be great if you did a film where you just acted for a director that you feel confident and comfortable with. i also get the feeling that you might view your part in acting as "filling the role" for the film as opposed to really diving into your character and making it 3 dimensional. all that being said i think you did a good job and are improving, and you seem to be a guy with a good honest outlook that is always looking to improve so i just wanted to help out if i could

Chris, you also kind of voiced what Geoff did, but expanded. While I don't THINK I saw myself as just filling a role, I also know that I can't just completely let go, as I've got the director AND producer side of me working at the same time. "How is everyone else doing in THEIR roles, where are we at for schedule, is the craft services table out of water or peanut M&M?!" These are all things I'm thinking of at the same time. Not to mention, I'm calling action and then BAM, I've got to be in the role. But, others have done it, and done it quite well. Mel Gibson is someone I admire as a director, and is at the same time an incredible actor in his own films. Am I comparing myself to him, or even hinting that I could ever attain that level? Of course not ... but is it something I can strive for? Absolutely. We should all set our sites on something high, and just go for it, hoping (and or believing) that we CAN attain it ... just can't ever give up ... no matter what.

First, I have to say, I have so much respect for you taking a risk like you did and going for such a unique look. That takes guts.

Having said that, I loved everything about this film, except for the look. In fact, I hadn't read the threads before watching these films and when yours first came up, I thought it was a compression error.

However, everything else was wonderful. I loved the story, the acting, the pacing, the energy of it, and I especially liked Herman's score. Overall, I really enjoyed this film.

Lol! Alecia (the Wife) had her husband watch, and he thought it was a compression error too at first! Glad you enjoyed the film, Chris, other than the look ... and we look forward to having you see it next week without the filter (I'll have both versions available).

I must admit that when Norm send me the film to compress it I was like wtf? I didn't understand that he will be submitting the tweak version. After a while I got used to it and it looked rather cool, meaning I like the fillm that way.
My objection is all that fuzz about the look. He liked it, he subitted it like that, big deal. All this situation reminds me of looking the finger instead of where it points to.

Yes, both Steve AND Herman weren't too keen or sure about what I was wanting to do when I first told them. They both probably thought I was nuts. It was really rewarding when both of them changed their minds and said they loved it. They'll also have both versions available on their cast & crew DVD!

I don't object to all the 'fuzz' about the look. I knew it would be a polarizer with the audience. Some would love it, others would hate it ... with probably not a lot of middle ground. Such has seemed to be the case, but thankfully I THINK the larger majority liked it, or liked aspects of it. So for that, it was a success. Eitherway, this film was all about doing things unconventionally & taking risks, and we all learned a lot through doing it. So in that regards, that's the greatest success any of us should be concerned about, IMO.

Holy shi*


this movie was phenomenal.
absolutely blew me away.

by far the coolest looking one i've seen yet.
bravo, guys. really.

WOW, Kyle, THANKS!!! If I do quotes in the sig, can I quote you on that?! Seriously, thank you.

Norm,

The needle scene is phenominal.

I've been thinking about it this morning and just had to go watch it again.

It's like, reinventing the flashback. It feels like I've seen it before, but I can't put a finger on it. Awesome.

Thanks again, Zach, I'm glad this film is working so well for you, and that you especially dug that scene. No worries at all for pulling frame grabs either, BTW, as I loved seeing that still shot of the spoon.

Oh, and for the record, I honestly DID consider sticking that freakin' needle into my arm, if you can believe it! Rebecca can attest to the fact that I'm a method actor, so I like to have things are real as possible ... but I decided to draw the line there, lol.

Oh, and to Larry R and msconce (Matt) who both posted similar sentiments just below Zach's, a hearty thank you to you too ... glad it worked for you so well!

I'm wondering if you're going to do an unfiltered version? I tried to get through it, but it was just too distracting.

I'm really a fan after your dramafest entry so I was really hoping just to sit back and watch you and your cast do your thing.

Sorry, not to come on with a lot of positive feedback.

No worries, Jason, and thanks for watching it! Sorry you had a hard time getting through it with the 'look' I applied, but you'll be glad to know that we WILL be posting a non-filtered version ... after the results are announced Sunday night. I can't say whether you'll like it less, as much, or more than WHERE SILENCE FALLS, but I'll look forward to your thoughts!

I think the bond issue might have been missed by some because the first three times the word is said, it gets muffled or is difficult to understand. The first time is when Carter says it and a thunder crack (or something that sounds like it) happens at the same time. The next two times are when Linden says it. She has a lovely accent, but she doesn't quite get the "d" out at the end. The second time she says it, it almost sounds like "bombs". Yikes!

AMY!!! Thanks for coming back with the details, you ROCK!!! Herman, let's discuss some of this before the final mix of the DVD. Hopefully you read this & can remind me, lol!

You know, my mother (who I've not seen in over a year) came by to visit this weekend with a friend, and I showed them the film. Needless to say, she was left a little speachless after hearing her good church boy cuss up a storm, lol. But aside from that, they were confused greatly. First, the fast editing was simply not their style & tough to keep up with ... I'm guessing that would be true for most of the older crowd that is (65+ in age). Second, however, is that they ALSO thought the word 'bombs' was said vs. 'bonds'.

So, it's a little late now to try & fix Anita's accent (which I loved for this film & character, just helped with the diversity that much more), but we CAN maybe move that thunder clap, so it's not competing with Shawn's line. Thanks again for that.

For the stairway stuff you mentioned, but then ended with suggesting we don't change it ... we could still look at the audio levels there, but that portion really is more for background vs. essential information, as we're more focused on who's POV are we looking from ... then we see it's the boy's. So while it's not a huge concern/focus for me, we can still see if some levels need to be addressed. Herman has remixed a little since, which will be heard on the filtered & non-filtered versions Sunday night and after ... so perhaps it's already a moot point, I'm not sure.

Okay I'm facinated by the final post look!!! I've been trying to get a look like that for about a year. I'm throughly impressed.

The script is wonderful. The acting is great.

Good Job

Mike, thank you so much. Again, another quotable post, lol! Regarding that PM you sent me for specific instructions. Once the mods can verify for me that you voted our film as #1, I'll give you the details on Monday. KIDDING! I've already sent you back via PM the detailed methods I used for this film, as well as some things to try differently (i.e. different settings for different shots/angles), and hope that it helps your music video achieve the look you're wanting!

A note about that scene- we were in a small small bathroom, I guess you would call it a half bath, and I was on an apple box, with the sound guy behind me, definitely cramped quarters. Norm really did a good job with the editing on that scene. He relayed to me basically what he wanted to do in post, and I tried my best to pick up the shots that he wanted. Bravo Norm!

Thanks, Patrick. It was one of those things I had in my head and HOPED (believed) I could make it turn out a certain way, and was just asking everyone to go along with it. It was cozy ... just the three of us guys ... in that small bathroom. Ahem, moving on ....

I think it's ironic that Norm's film is called "Without Provocation."

LOL!

I was coming to this thread to thank Norm and all the positive contributors because I was just thinking, wow, I REALLY learned alot today, from a website. It's real world information with real people, and I'm learning it. I feel priveleged to be on here, I'd hate to see such rich content like this be soiled by bad attitudes.

Thanks, Zach, I'm honored to hear you're learning things in this thread. I'll be the FIRST to say that their are other users on here that give a WEALTH of knowledge in their film's respective threads that I can't even begin to touch upon. One such person that comes to mind is Ryan Watlers (235 Studios) the documentation and care that guy gives to his threads (TONS of camera knowledge, settings, shot lists, and the list goes on) as well as actual productions is remarkable.

While I'm not as left brained/detail oriented as some of those folks, I do try to bring things of interest to the table, whatever they may be worth.

And, as you stated, it's real world information with REAL people. So it's inevitable that feelings will get hurt at times, people misunderstood, others coming to defense and/or opposition, etc. Just like family, lol.

 

[Norm Sanders]

To everyone on here who got their blood boiling at one point or another, hopefully it's out of our systems. I appreciate those who felt that they needed to come to a defense for me, or on the behalf of others, but I think I handled my responses fairly well in that they were not continually rebutted. Meaning, I think they were fair, as well as received well, and did not warrant further conversation.

And not to pick on a particular post, but instead to use it as a spring board to show my appreciation for my team; those I've been blessed to work with ...

It was stated that an individual is well embraced by the community because their thread rec'd 300 'hits' in one day...

I believe my team is well embraced by the community because this thread has rec'd over an average of 600 'hits' per day, since it's opening at around noon on this past Saturday. Noon, today, would mark 4 complete days it's been open for comments, and it's already at approx 2,700 'hits'.

It's not me that's the draw to this thread. It's other fine users such as RebeccaD, PDX_DVX, shawneous, chazmo, Herman Witkam, Steve_Arm, and the rest of the cast & crew that may not be members of DVXuser ... they are as much of the draw to this thread, if not more.

Visually, if it weren't for Patrick, we wouldn't have had the cool angles, movement, and lighting that we have. The others for their performances, chazmo for pulling really hot audio from the set, Herman for the incredible music, Steve for that incredibly cool brain splatter, and the list goes on.

What did I do?? Suffice it to say, not much. I just pulled together a really good team to work with! :thumbsup:

Seriously, if it weren't for each & everyone of them, this film would suck, plain & simple. But BECAUSE of them, we've rec'd a lot of interest, views, and feedback, mixed with both positive & critical reviews. If we don't place in this fest, would I change anything about the production & end results? Not a whole heck of a lot, if anything at all.

Thanks guys, for making this film, and thread, what it is today!!

 

[Beat Takeshi]

The thing that makes it really digging is when someone says "next time do this" like they know what you want to do or accomplish in your work and that they are the mighty final word of the bestist of the bestist. We got one of those "next time do this" posts on our thread. Reminds me of the guy from On the Lot.

Norm, I liked that you tried something new and put it out there like that. Maybe it was distracting a little but people just have to learn that its an asthetic thats not cartoon and not live action (it is but it isn't) and to sit back and pretend that thats the way that little world is like. Maybe my little mind lets go faster than others and I am the only one that can fake myself out like that. The only thing I thought technically when I was watching was that if I were to try this also would I want to try testing lighting along with the look to see what I could get.
As far as the story goes, I thought it was a cool. I liked the skip jumps in the editing and the pacing of the edits. The music fit well. Some of the acting was over the top but not in many spots so it didn't kill it for me. I totally watched it like I was watching hand drawn cartoon and had no problem with it.
I likey.

 

[Aaron Marshall]

Norm, good job on the film. It had a different feel from your other work. I felt you were sticking your neck out and trying new things. I liked so many things about the film. Great job on the score Herman!

I did not like the PS filters on the film. It bugged me from the first frame. Let me tell you why instead of just saying "I didn't like it". I thought, "A Scanner Darkly" but not approached or crafted at the same level. Certain effects like CC, desaturation, that go on almost transparently -- I mean you know they're there but you don't know how they are there exactly in the scene -- but the PS filter was heavy handed and you knew it was absolutely present at all times, unwavering. What made A Scanner Darkly neat was how each frame had a human touch. It was pseudo animated with the source as reference frames.

Ok, enough about that. I don't like how my post looks because the complaint paragraph is so much bigger than the praise. The praise I want to give the film is far greater than the complaint. I just wanted to elaborate instead of giving you hollow feedback. I think you took some brave steps forward. Even though I did not like the PS automated fx, I still admire that you would try something such as this. I need to keep in mind this is small budget stuff too. It's not like you had 50 million $$$. On this level I guess it could be considered pretty nifty.

 

[MsManhattan]

I liked the story in this film; it had lots of backstory that you conveyed really efficiently, and it had great tension and build-up (wonderful use of the bear -- that was an interesting detail). The editing was really excellent, and the performances were strong. I get the impression it was also well shot, but as others have said, I found the filter very distracting and would love to see the film without it. Other than that, this was one of my favorites. And I absolutely admire that you shot it in one day! How'd you ever manage that? (You have probably posted BTS details in the thread so I apologize as I am trying to watch all the films and haven't spent as much time as I should perusing the threads.)

 

[Hermn8r]

Wanted to comment on THE FILM in your thread, since it seems like a lot of other crazy stuff has been going on in he-ah!!

So, I like the substance of the film in general. As said by a lot of people, the filter you put on does take a little away for me. The reason being is, there are certainly some shots that look A LOT better under the filter than others, but some shots that just look bad for whatever reason. I think it would have been really effective had the use of it been limited (perhaps flashbacks and/or POV of the crazy stoners (i.e. you) rogar-Smoke(DBG): <---- (although there was no smoking, this is the only druggie smiley I can find... Wonder if somebody could make a smiley doing blow?)

I digress.


That all being said, however, I wonder if the shots that didn't look so good would have worked a lot better had you had better software? Obviously since this is all low budget, we're not blessed with million $$ stuff, so I definitely gotta cut you some slack here. But better software plus using the filter sparingly would have helped dramatically for me. I think of a similar look in "Sin City", for example. Nonetheless, it was a total risk, and you should be proud of that.

I'm looking forward to seeing the unfiltered short, and can hopefully make some more comments then.

Way to go!

 

[Darkline]

Hey Norm,

you always get the most fun threads

Onto the film - I dont normally read a thread more than a few pages back; but I felt I had to after I saw the look of this film.

So negative out of the way first as you've heard this a lot already... I didnt like the look I thought it was distracting, infact I had to rewind the film as a few of my friends starting talking through it saying 'whats going on, is that deliberate?'. I read that you were trying to create something like a scanner darkly - that I understand. But its painstaking work to get a look like that and if you fall short I think it can look wrong. This to me (tho I could be wrong) looked like you'd applied a generic 'find edges' filter.... I actually thought it was a rendering error during the quicktime conversion or something. Just my opinion, but for a look like this to work it has to be made convincing at the highest level (like a scanner darkly), almost frame to frame to be convincing..... its a shame because...

I really like the way you directed this. It had a claustrophobic feel and you handled the blocking really well. Established the space well and I thought the acting worked too. Multiple character scenes are hard to do and it seemed effortless here. Ive never tackled multiple character scenes myself and I was impressed with how it worked.

I like Norm that you are a reg part of these fests. No matter what happens you get something done and I always look forward to seeing your entries.

Despite my comment earlier, it was bold to try something new. Very different form any of your other entries and I think its important for a director to push himself into new styles/genres.

Finally I will say that the look did work well for the flashback. Maybe because it was fleeting and a little halucinagenic. Before you had time to register it, it was gone and just left you with a feeling. It was my fave part. Perhaps if that look was only on the flashback it would give that scene even more impact?

but well done, I enjoyed this one and despite the controversy here I hope you're in the next fest too

 

[Dahopafilms]

... Finally I will say that the look did work well for the flashback. Maybe because it was fleeting and a little halucinagenic. Before you had time to register it, it was gone and just left you with a feeling. It was my fave part. Perhaps if that look was only on the flashback it would give that scene even more impact? ...

What a "bang-on" perception.

A truly "ah-ha" moment and I think Darkline has nailed what might be a perfect "solution" ("enhancement"?) to this great film.

 

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Ughh.

Norm I just wrote for over a 1/2 hour about your FILM. Hit post reply only to discover that the site had logged me out, and I lost everything I typed when it automatically took me to the log in page.
:badputer:



Too ticked off to write it again now, this evening probably.

 

[Aaron Marshall]

So, I like the substance of the film in general. As said by a lot of people, the filter you put on does take a little away for me. The reason being is, there are certainly some shots that look A LOT better under the filter than others, but some shots that just look bad for whatever reason. I think it would have been really effective had the use of it been limited (perhaps flashbacks and/or POV of the crazy stoners (i.e. you)

Very well said

Ughh.

Norm I just wrote for over a 1/2 hour about your FILM. Hit post reply only to discover that the site had logged me out, and I lost everything I typed when it automatically took me to the log in page.
:badputer:


Too ticked off to write it again now, this evening probably.

I hate when this happens. It pisses me off to no end. I usually try to check the "remember me?" box when I log-in.

 

[Michael_Petro]

I thought it was pretty cool, but i would like to see a higher rez version to compare them.. I know my flick is a little washed out compared to a higher rez version...

 

[Barry_Green]

By the way, I"ve learned the hard way that whenever I go typing up something that I wouldn't want to have to type again, I always copy it to the clipboard first. On Windows, I do a "control-A" for "select all" followed by a "control-C" for "copy". With those two keystrokes I preserve the whole memo, so if the board crashes or IE pukes or whatever, all I have to do is go in and "paste" and it's all back. A highly recommended technique for those of us as wordy as I am... :thumbsup:

 

[Brandon Rice]

Yeah, I do the same a lot of times

 

[Norm Sanders]

Yep, even though I've always logged in with the 'remember me' switch, I've still began to get in the habit of doing what Barry does, as you just want to put your fist through the screen after losing a lot of well thought out words ... it's happened in PM's as well (issues with I.E., quirk with the forum, etc.).

Norm, I liked that you tried something new and put it out there like that. Maybe it was distracting a little but people just have to learn that its an asthetic thats not cartoon and not live action (it is but it isn't) and to sit back and pretend that thats the way that little world is like. Maybe my little mind lets go faster than others and I am the only one that can fake myself out like that. The only thing I thought technically when I was watching was that if I were to try this also would I want to try testing lighting along with the look to see what I could get.
As far as the story goes, I thought it was a cool. I liked the skip jumps in the editing and the pacing of the edits. The music fit well. Some of the acting was over the top but not in many spots so it didn't kill it for me. I totally watched it like I was watching hand drawn cartoon and had no problem with it.
I likey.

Thanks, Aram, glad to hear that it worked for you in general overall. I agree 100% about testing lighting & the effect in advance. However, we had zero prep time for this (no rehearsals, no prior blocking until at that moment on set, no camera/lighting tests, etc.), and the effect itself was actually a VERY last minute decision before submission. I'll go into detailed explainations about all this, as I think I'll put together a Director/Producer journal on the front page soon, that'll document the process from conception to completion. I'll also take whatever interesting clips I can find & peper them throughout the journal, as the journal will give backstory to what the viewer can watch as well, etc.

Norm, good job on the film. It had a different feel from your other work. I felt you were sticking your neck out and trying new.

.....................

Even though I did not like the PS automated fx, I still admire that you would try something such as this. I need to keep in mind this is small budget stuff too. It's not like you had 50 million $$$. On this level I guess it could be considered pretty nifty.

Thanks, Aaron! Sticking our neck out was what much of this film was about, for all of us. It was something different, and risky, and fun to do. And the fact that it had a different feel from past works was a goal well achieved then, as I didn't want this to be able to really fit in with anything from the past.

I liked the story in this film; it had lots of backstory that you conveyed really efficiently, and it had great tension and build-up (wonderful use of the bear -- that was an interesting detail). The editing was really excellent, and the performances were strong. I get the impression it was also well shot, but as others have said, I found the filter very distracting and would love to see the film without it. Other than that, this was one of my favorites.

EXCELLENT, MsManhattan! Although I respect when the story/script doesn't work for someone (I don't think there's ever been a story, script, film that has pleased 100% of the viewers), I'm SO excited when it DOES!

I'll make both the original script and then the 'altered on the fly' script (really more of a transcript in some ways, as it's after the fact) available later today on the front page, for those who are interested in seeing how 12 pages ended up being a 5 minute film.

And I absolutely admire that you shot it in one day! How'd you ever manage that?

Three words: Seventeen Hour Shoot

So, I like the substance of the film in general. As said by a lot of people, the filter you put on does take a little away for me. The reason being is, there are certainly some shots that look A LOT better under the filter than others, but some shots that just look bad for whatever reason. I think it would have been really effective had the use of it been limited (perhaps flashbacks and/or POV of the crazy stoners (i.e. you).

That all being said, however, I wonder if the shots that didn't look so good would have worked a lot better had you had better software? Obviously since this is all low budget, we're not blessed with million $$ stuff, so I definitely gotta cut you some slack here. But better software plus using the filter sparingly would have helped dramatically for me. I think of a similar look in "Sin City", for example. Nonetheless, it was a total risk, and you should be proud of that.

I'm looking forward to seeing the unfiltered short, and can hopefully make some more comments then.

Way to go!

Thanks, Hermn8r, you've got some great ideas there. I may test out the drug scene only with the filter for the DVD version, which you touched on & then someone else gets specific about. It'll be interesting to see how that blends together with the rest of the non-filtered film. I'd probably first post it (after the contest) for feedback before making it final. Otherwise, yep, look for the non-filtered version by Sunday night.

Hey Norm,

..... I didnt like the look I thought it was distracting, infact I had to rewind the film as a few of my friends starting talking through it saying 'whats going on, is that deliberate?'.

..... its a shame because...

I really like the way you directed this. It had a claustrophobic feel and you handled the blocking really well. Established the space well and I thought the acting worked too. Multiple character scenes are hard to do and it seemed effortless here. Ive never tackled multiple character scenes myself and I was impressed with how it worked.

I like Norm that you are a reg part of these fests. No matter what happens you get something done and I always look forward to seeing your entries.

Despite my comment earlier, it was bold to try something new. Very different form any of your other entries and I think its important for a director to push himself into new styles/genres.

Finally I will say that the look did work well for the flashback. Maybe because it was fleeting and a little halucinagenic. Before you had time to register it, it was gone and just left you with a feeling. It was my fave part. Perhaps if that look was only on the flashback it would give that scene even more impact?

but well done, I enjoyed this one and despite the controversy here I hope you're in the next fest too

Thanks, Darkline! The controversy certainly won't keep me out of the next fest ... the only thing that could probably do that would be scheduling issues. Oh, and thanks for all the kind words.

Folks are right that there's probably better ways to do the filter process, some of which I'd already realized pretty quickly on after the final render. But we all learn from the process, right?! More expensive software could likely have done some improvements, shooting the material in HD vs. SD would have improved the grain issues, testing lighting, and finally applying the look at varying levels to different shots/clips vs. a blanket effect. All of these things would have improved the look that much more, I believe to the point where those who don't like it now may actually love it at that point. While it may never achieve the full SCANNER DARKLY effect/look, I don't believe that every frame would need to be addressed to still get a completely killer & clean look out of it, if more care & time was taken than what I had at the time of doing this.

Oh, and as Brian noted, bang-on idea that Hermn8r touched on & you got specific with ... I'll have to see about testing that out with the drug flash/back only scene.

Also, a side note. I've never watched SCANNER DARKLY ... still need to. I've only seen the trailers & that in itself was cool enough for me to want to try the effect (or something similar/inspired) for this film. Someone also asked me several pages back if I had seen a certain tutorial/film that also did something similar. Nope, never heard of it before. In fact, I had to PM Steve_Arm to ask him how to even create an automated script in Photoshop, lol!

Thanks also for the kudos on the directing. I'd never even given it a second thought about multiple characters in a scene being more difficult than single/two characters, but I'm glad it worked out well. I'm actually glad I HADN'T thought about it being difficult in advance. Ignorance can be bliss, at times, lol.

Ughh.

Norm I just wrote for over a 1/2 hour about your FILM. Hit post reply only to discover that the site had logged me out, and I lost everything I typed when it automatically took me to the log in page.
:badputer:



Too ticked off to write it again now, this evening probably.

Man, that stinks! As stated at the top of this post, been there, hated it! Look forward to your thoughts, Jack, and thanks for taking the time (x2) to comment!

 

[RebeccaD]

Wow! I missed a lot since I was here last..... :huh: Thanks for all the feedback. I think it will be very interesting for people to view the other version when it is up on Sunday night. Of course, I get to view it whenever I want, cuz I have the hookup. Heh Heh. Norm knew that by doing this effect on the film that people would be polarized. I really appreciate the detailed reviews from everyone. Thank you for that!

 

[Shawn Philip Nelson]

Norm, congratulations on pulling together a really good movie! The production was tough, but I can without a doubt say I am glad and proud to be a part of it. As for everyone's comments, I'm glad no one has said that Carter character stank the piece up!