FS5: With external recording, how does FS5 stack up to the FS7?

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filmguy123

Veteran
I had heard the FS5 in camera codecs leave a lot to be desired. Wondering if I use external recording, how does the FS5 compare to the FS7?

And does the FS5 to interval VFR, ie 36fps, 44fps, etc. like the FS7 S&Q function?

Any drawbacks?

Debating between FS5, FS7, FS7 II. Leaning towards used FS7 but the FS5 lower weight is hugely appealing.

I would be sold on the A7s series if they did VFR :/
 
You're giving up 10-bit 4k output on the FS5. And your weight advantage goes away with an external recorder.

If you're using a drone, maybe it makes sense to get an FS5. But otherwise, I'd suggest the FS7. Unless you're maybe 5 feet tall and really aren't built for an ENG camera at all.
 
I think that with external recorder (Shogun inferno or Odyssey 7q+) FS5 becomes extremely versatile camera and can reach same kind of picture quality than FS7. Of course you lose most of the advantages of the small size with external recorder, but if you need to strip it down to really ergonomic run and gun camera with still good picture quality you can do it. That is something you can't do with FS7.

I need camera for all kind of different purposes and I can only afford one in this price range. So for me FS5 is almost perfect. And I really like my Shogun as a recorder and monitor and I can use it with all kind of cameras if needed.
 
Hoi,

Just to chuck in my 10-cents, as an FS-7 mk1 owner/op, who was *stunned* by the size AND weight difference of the FS5.

I would be VERY surprised if an FS5 with an Atomos Ninja Star attached would be anywhere near the size or weight of an FS7. That said, I guess you might be referring to the 4K capabilities of the cameras, for which the N/S isn't relevant.

Hmmmmm,

jason
 
To me the FS5 is a perfect camera for R&G HD, very good codec. And occasional 4K internally, all while in the smallest "real C size imager video cam" package. And that is why I love it and it is my go to cam these days.

And yes with the O7Q+ it is even more capable.

But if my primary mission was 4K, I would go with the FS7.

The 5 and the 7 are very different cams for different users. Borrow or rent both to decide what way to go.

Personally I sold my FS7 after I got my FS5, I like the 5 much more. But that is just me and the clients I shoot for.

I still use my EX3 often and the A7s is always with me on shoots, the EX3 is still a great Cam (½" imager is great for shouldering with the very versatile ENG lens) and the 5 is a low light monster. But my 4K iPhone is often my best camera, because it is always in my pocket.

We all have different clients and needs so there is no one perfect cam, just a lot of compromises.
 
The IQ difference will probably be negligible (excluding RAW), so it really comes down to your shooting style. If you have 20 minutes between shots to re-configure the camera for different uses (eg gimbal, tripod, handheld) then the FS5/7Q+ combo would be very flexible. If you want one camera set-up for all-day shooting that you can sling on your shoulder or quickly swap to a tripod, then the FS7 might suit better.

There's a few other differences - eg 240fps vs 180fps, electronic ND, etc, but again, most of these will come down to your own shooting style. Personally I'd prefer the FS7 because I like the way it balances with a V-lock battery on the back.
 
I made the same decision a few months back and decided on the FS5, largely based on how I use it...

- My larger-client 4K shoots are typically done in a stick-and-lights environment, where the extra bulk of a recorder is mitigated
- Many of my clients only want HD 4:2:2, which this does internally just fine
- I can fit the FS5 and a Helix Jr. gimbal in a carry-on backpack and be pretty darned well equipped everywhere I need to go
 
The FS5 is a stripped down FS7 and I think it's great. I use it for interviews, run and gun, occasional events, throw a 12 Rokinon on it and then run it in 120fps mode and get smooth motion just hand holding it. It is small and light weight and delivers a lovely image. A use the 8bit 4K for interviews and then throw them onto an HD timeline and have no issues color correcting them. I still also use an EX1r a lot and the two can be cut together reasonably well. Look at the specs of the FS5 vs the FS7 on the Sony website and you will see that the FS7 has many more options and codecs to offer than the FS5, but for my client base and the work I do, it is fine.
 
deltoidjohn said:
You don't get 10-bit 4K internally or externally unless you purchase the raw upgrade. Once you purchase the raw upgrade you get 10-bit 4K out via SDI.
Click to expand...


I'm certain that a certain rep for CD 7Q+ that we all know and love *wink* stated it here and on the product site that FS5 RAW has a true 12bit out signal via 3G-SDI. Also most information online point out that FS700, FS7 and FS5 RAW outputs are almost identical and differ very slightly, interestingly many state that because of the way that DR is mapped across those 12bits that FS700 is the preferable platform for RAW capture because unlike FS7/FS5 (not 100% sure about FS5 RAW) in a similar fashion to ARRI and BMD cameras it puts a slight S curve on the footage before it reaches the recorder to re-map its DR properly through 12 bit pipeline. So the resulting image is not haunted by the artifacts from true-linear 12 bit raw that FS7 brings (I can not remember if FS5 is plagued by this or not).

There are multiple threads on dvxuser/dvinfo/eoshd about it and the original article here https://www.cinema5d.com/sony-fs7-raw-issues-found/ in summary the community at large have decided that the internal 10bit 4k slog-3 image in FS7 and the internal HD 180fps slow motion grades better than RAW output to ext recorder. Of course, your usage scenario might be different so take this with grain of salt.

In summary, contrary to FS7, FS5 doesn't have any 10 bit internal for 4k to fall back on nor does it have 60fps at 4k continous so using it with the recorder really transforms the cam into a whole new beast. It is definitely the best valid option to improve its IQ, also the 120fps 4k for 435(?) frames of the interal buffer with the end point trigger is a real game-changer. If one wants some info on RAW FS5 setup Doug Jensen makes a pretty good comparison between different externally registered shots and internally registered ones here, http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xd...l-recording-fs5-vs-raw-output-odyssey-7q.html. If one uses it with the 3G-SDI thin cable on the Ronin-M (!) you can get pretty sensational footage that was simply not available in this price range/form factor before.

P.S. Btw the FS700 got the 120fps 4k through internal buffer with end trigger as well as 60fps 4k continous, making it the underdog KING. These days you can set a very capable system for under 5k easily with some bargaining and patient used purchases. Just to think that FS700 used to have AVCHD 28mb 1080p only output is crazy....now it has 4k60 RAW under 5k? Woah.

FS5+CD7Q+Lincencing+Media = not that far away from the basic Red Raven package though...which is again in the next production tier all together, with all the implications of much bigger support crew, power troubles, workflow changes etc...oh decisions decisions.

Out.
 
I'm still shooting with my F3, but keep eyeing a FS5 or FS7 as an eventual replacement. I would primarily shoot Prores and RAW (2k s16 crop)

Once you start to run the numbers it becomes interesting. It becomes even more interesting if you already own an Odyssey 7Q+ or equivalent.

Thanks to the $2000 dongle needed to shoot RAW and Prores with the FS7 the camera quickly escalates in price to the point where you are in used F5 territory...

The FS5 doesn't offer as many features as the FS7, but it is significantly smaller and if you're primarily a RAW shooter the differences may seem like less of an issue. I keep thinking about how limited the feature set was on something like the Viper and somehow they managed to shoot Zodiac and Benjamin Buttons with that camera. The FS5 seems like pure luxury in comparison.


Per BHphoto:

FS5 $5795
RAW Upgrade $600
Odyssey 7Q+ $1795
Odyssey RAW $995

$9188


FS7 $8499
Extension Unit $1999
Odyssey 7Q+ $1795
Odyssey RAW $995

$13288

FS7II $10,000
Extension Unit $1999
Odyssey 7Q+ $1795
Odyssey RAW $995

$14,789
 
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Did Sony fix the problem of RAW/XDCA ? how is the PRORES from O7Q+ with XDCA and new software fix?
Anyone wants to unload their XDCA?
 
Chuxa said:
There are multiple threads on dvxuser/dvinfo/eoshd about it and the original article here https://www.cinema5d.com/sony-fs7-raw-issues-found/ in summary the community at large have decided that the internal 10bit 4k slog-3 image in FS7 and the internal HD 180fps slow motion grades better than RAW output to ext recorder. Of course, your usage scenario might be different so take this with grain of salt. .
Click to expand...

The article linked above says:

"Cinema5D has feedback these issues to Sony. Sony has confirmed the issues and is currently studying how to fix.”

As the tests were conducted over a year ago, it's a natural question to ask whether Sony did anything to improve the FS7 RAW?

Piotr

PS. Don't want to hijack this thread, but was just thinking to buy the XDCA and start recording from RAW on Shogun Inferno. But if RAW is so poor out of the FS7, does it make any sense?
 
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Ben, but people were complaining about the actual DR and shadow information lacking also in 4K, and being inferior to internal XAVC 10-bit recording in S-log - what made them change their mind? Did Sony improve the XDCA firmware in the meantime?

Piotr
 
Chuxa said:
I'm certain that a certain rep for CD 7Q+ that we all know and love *wink* stated it here and on the product site that FS5 RAW has a true 12bit out signal via 3G-SDI.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, thankyou for the correction!

Though in my defence, the original question was whether or not you can have 10-bit externally - not how many bits you get through the SDI port! :)

And trust me, I'm fully aware of the FS700's powerhouse capabilities!
 
moldcad said:
Ben, but people were complaining about the actual DR and shadow information lacking also in 4K, and being inferior to internal XAVC 10-bit recording in S-log - what made them change their mind? Did Sony improve the XDCA firmware in the meantime?

Piotr
Click to expand...

Yes they did.
 
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