jpsheets
Well-known member
Thanks, Drew. Now that's good constructive criticism. That's well appreciated.
cheers,
JP
Winter, a Fairy Tale
- Thread starter Wild Imagination Films
- Start date
Thanks, Drew. Now that's good constructive criticism. That's well appreciated.
cheers,
JP
Jared Meyer
Veteran
Wow, you guys sure were ambitious! I don't really want to critique this because you all obviously put so much effort into it - it's a flawed short, but I think I can boil down the problems (for me) to one main thing: it's just trying to be too epic for a six minute short. The story was confusing and disjointed and I never had a handle on the basics -who is he, what does he want, what actions has he decided to take to achieve his goals and why, blah blah blah....
Things I liked:
Coolest camera prop in the fest, bar none :thumbsup:
Very detailed set (you built that??) with nice props/decoration/design
Shots in the snow were killer. I can't believe that snow falling was real.
Canoe and mountain climbing shots were great.
The hardest part about making a short film, for me at least, is resisting the urge to throw everything in, including the kitchen sink. My stories all tend to be large, sprawling, messy and convoluted....and those are the 60 second ones.
If you keep honing the basic story principles the rest will fall into place. I can't wait to see what you guys do next...!
Things I liked:
Coolest camera prop in the fest, bar none :thumbsup:
Very detailed set (you built that??) with nice props/decoration/design
Shots in the snow were killer. I can't believe that snow falling was real.
Canoe and mountain climbing shots were great.
The hardest part about making a short film, for me at least, is resisting the urge to throw everything in, including the kitchen sink. My stories all tend to be large, sprawling, messy and convoluted....and those are the 60 second ones.
If you keep honing the basic story principles the rest will fall into place. I can't wait to see what you guys do next...!
hoz
Well-known member
Your film attempted to do a lot in 6 minutes and for this i give you much credit. I thoroughly enjoyed the snow falling. wow. nice work. how did you pull this off? ( sorry if you already answered my question, i did not yet read this entire thread - i wish to give you a review free of influence from others ) Was it real snow? The canoe scene was also very original- cool ! The clothes and the set were really well thought out too. Very strong story telling!
I also liked the idea of your overall story. I would say that i wish i saw more of the man's journey and less of the man's conversation with his father. I got the point of their conflict from the get go. The father's acting was admirable but over the top. If the father had no time for the son as a youngster than why would he have time for the son as a man?
Maybe give a reason as to why the father is talking with the son, like " it's now time for you to take over the business - " and then boom, conflict - " You sound like your mother." " My mother, what do you know of my mother-" I don't know, something like that- that's if you wish to hold together a longer scene with the father.
But i do wish to have seen more of the son's trek. And maybe more on where he was attempting to go- or to find. or was he running away? i think he was looking for a life somewhere. to find someone. Maybe give an inkling of the nymph before we see her at the end. Like as if she was with him all along? I offer ideas only because i think your film is close to being excellent - and because i see a lot of work and effort - and it shows! I hope you can work on this further and that you might share it here if you do.
Nice film!
I also liked the idea of your overall story. I would say that i wish i saw more of the man's journey and less of the man's conversation with his father. I got the point of their conflict from the get go. The father's acting was admirable but over the top. If the father had no time for the son as a youngster than why would he have time for the son as a man?
Maybe give a reason as to why the father is talking with the son, like " it's now time for you to take over the business - " and then boom, conflict - " You sound like your mother." " My mother, what do you know of my mother-" I don't know, something like that- that's if you wish to hold together a longer scene with the father.
But i do wish to have seen more of the son's trek. And maybe more on where he was attempting to go- or to find. or was he running away? i think he was looking for a life somewhere. to find someone. Maybe give an inkling of the nymph before we see her at the end. Like as if she was with him all along? I offer ideas only because i think your film is close to being excellent - and because i see a lot of work and effort - and it shows! I hope you can work on this further and that you might share it here if you do.
Nice film!
Gohanto
Veteran
Very nice work overall. Set and costume design were both very well done. Lighting was nice, but the digital "look" it had didn't really work for me. Too much for my taste.
Shots were interesting throughout (I really liked holding the shot on the notebook while the dialog played over it). The story confused me and I'm not entirely sure what was going on for parts of it, but it was very interesting to watch and you certainly got an interesting style where everything worked well together. You led an orchestra in a piece where everything flowed well with each other, and with all the components in this that is impressive.
Nice job.
Shots were interesting throughout (I really liked holding the shot on the notebook while the dialog played over it). The story confused me and I'm not entirely sure what was going on for parts of it, but it was very interesting to watch and you certainly got an interesting style where everything worked well together. You led an orchestra in a piece where everything flowed well with each other, and with all the components in this that is impressive.
Nice job.
Chris Messineo
Veteran
The antique camera is awesome.
The first scene feels a little long and the dialogue a little too on the nose, but after that it really picks up.
I loved the outdoor shots: the kayak, the snow, and the fairy - great stuff.
The first scene feels a little long and the dialogue a little too on the nose, but after that it really picks up.
I loved the outdoor shots: the kayak, the snow, and the fairy - great stuff.
Wild Imagination Films
Well-known member
For those of you who have watched the film and yet still make comments about not understanding it, I would have to recommend watching it a second time and pay very close attention to the very beginning.
For everyone who felt this should have been a longer piece and it was missing something in the transition from in to out side, well, OK.
I have gone over the comments a few times trying to understand the confusion. I watched the uploaded film to be certain there wasn't a problem. What downloaded was exactly what I uploaded.
So here is a list of issues and responses:
1. Jerky camera work in a couple of scenes- yup, it was. Fault, the guy behind the camera (me)
1.5 Edits were rough- yes they were, especially when I forgot to put the cross-fades in again.
2. Acting over the top, too much, etc.- It's supposed to be. It's acting, it's drama, it's a movie set at the turn of the century, 1899-1900. Just like the costumes... It's a fairy tale.
3. Too big for a short film- Opinion, taken at face value. However, every line, every move pushes the story. We cover the three parts of a film, beginning/ middle/ end. Many of the entries I watched were just bits of things, a part of someones day...
All in all, I think many of the reviews indicate way too much thinking and not enough watching. This wasn't supposed to be Syriana, or Lord of the Rings. This was a film done by a group of people brought together by a great film idea who had a blast (apart from the plague running through the production) making a really fun to watch film.
Not every shot was perfect. We had some equipment issues, and some environmental ones as well.
Go back, watch the film again. This time though, just let it wash over you instead of looking for the faults. They're there. If you want, I can send you a list of every single one. But try to watch the film as someone other than a filmmaker. For cryin' out loud, we made it snow in Texas, on a fairy.
-Will
For everyone who felt this should have been a longer piece and it was missing something in the transition from in to out side, well, OK.
I have gone over the comments a few times trying to understand the confusion. I watched the uploaded film to be certain there wasn't a problem. What downloaded was exactly what I uploaded.
So here is a list of issues and responses:
1. Jerky camera work in a couple of scenes- yup, it was. Fault, the guy behind the camera (me)
1.5 Edits were rough- yes they were, especially when I forgot to put the cross-fades in again.
2. Acting over the top, too much, etc.- It's supposed to be. It's acting, it's drama, it's a movie set at the turn of the century, 1899-1900. Just like the costumes... It's a fairy tale.
3. Too big for a short film- Opinion, taken at face value. However, every line, every move pushes the story. We cover the three parts of a film, beginning/ middle/ end. Many of the entries I watched were just bits of things, a part of someones day...
All in all, I think many of the reviews indicate way too much thinking and not enough watching. This wasn't supposed to be Syriana, or Lord of the Rings. This was a film done by a group of people brought together by a great film idea who had a blast (apart from the plague running through the production) making a really fun to watch film.
Not every shot was perfect. We had some equipment issues, and some environmental ones as well.
Go back, watch the film again. This time though, just let it wash over you instead of looking for the faults. They're there. If you want, I can send you a list of every single one. But try to watch the film as someone other than a filmmaker. For cryin' out loud, we made it snow in Texas, on a fairy.
-Will
Jared Meyer
Veteran
Will, I think if you didn't want critiques, maybe you should have said so. "Hey everyone, here's our entry, we don't want or need criticism or feedback, hope you enjoy it." But really, the norm here is for people to watch your film, think about it, analyze and critique it, telling you what they liked and didn't like.
Everyone who enters these fests puts their film out their to be viewed critically by their peers. Constructive criticism has always been a part of it.
Every single Lovefest thread here is full of comments and criticism, no holds barred within the realm of kindness and honesty...Personally, I think people have been leaving great comments this go-round.
Everyone who enters these fests puts their film out their to be viewed critically by their peers. Constructive criticism has always been a part of it.
Every single Lovefest thread here is full of comments and criticism, no holds barred within the realm of kindness and honesty...Personally, I think people have been leaving great comments this go-round.
Wild Imagination Films
Well-known member
So for everyone who was able to watch and enjoy the film despite it's faults, here are some factoids for you:
*The camera was my Great Grandfather's and it's over one hundred years old. It still works. I have the glass plate negatives from it. I have printed images from them both "old school" and digitally. Unreal detail.
*There are two black powder pistols on the table. My father made them. There are four more woodcarvings by my father in the study.
*The watches in the film are from the 1800's. The still keep very accurate time.
*The spear on the wall behind dad is from the Philippines, so is the shield between the windows.
*Speaking of windows, they are printed on acetate. We rolled them up today when we struck the set.
*Mom's dress is a Victorian wedding dress.
*The "locket" around her neck is a metal match box with a fairy embossed on the front and the curved top slides over to expose the matches.
*The camera is over a hundred years old. It was my Great Grandfather's. It still functions. I have the original glass plates from his adventures. I've printed form them both "old school" and digitally. Unbelievable detail.
*There is a shield and spear from the Philippines hanging on the wall.
*On the table
- The Lament Configuration from Hellraiser.
- A Magic Window from the 70's. blue and white sand, oval.
- The Compass Rose on the map is a tattoo from the back of my neck
*The watches in the film are both from the late 1800's.
*The Kayak is handmade and weighs 40 lbs.
*The snow was real. Well, real in the sense of you could touch it. We had a
snow machine.
*I made the fairy outfit by hand the night before the shooting.
-Will
*The camera was my Great Grandfather's and it's over one hundred years old. It still works. I have the glass plate negatives from it. I have printed images from them both "old school" and digitally. Unreal detail.
*There are two black powder pistols on the table. My father made them. There are four more woodcarvings by my father in the study.
*The watches in the film are from the 1800's. The still keep very accurate time.
*The spear on the wall behind dad is from the Philippines, so is the shield between the windows.
*Speaking of windows, they are printed on acetate. We rolled them up today when we struck the set.
*Mom's dress is a Victorian wedding dress.
*The "locket" around her neck is a metal match box with a fairy embossed on the front and the curved top slides over to expose the matches.
*The camera is over a hundred years old. It was my Great Grandfather's. It still functions. I have the original glass plates from his adventures. I've printed form them both "old school" and digitally. Unbelievable detail.
*There is a shield and spear from the Philippines hanging on the wall.
*On the table
- The Lament Configuration from Hellraiser.
- A Magic Window from the 70's. blue and white sand, oval.
- The Compass Rose on the map is a tattoo from the back of my neck
*The watches in the film are both from the late 1800's.
*The Kayak is handmade and weighs 40 lbs.
*The snow was real. Well, real in the sense of you could touch it. We had a
snow machine.
*I made the fairy outfit by hand the night before the shooting.
-Will
Jared Meyer
Veteran
Awesome factoids.
I was wondering about the snow. For some reason I thought it was real, but that's just as cool that you guys got ahold of a snow machine.
I was wondering about the snow. For some reason I thought it was real, but that's just as cool that you guys got ahold of a snow machine.
Wild Imagination Films
Well-known member
Thank you Jared for your comments and your response to my response.
I wasn't trying to say I don't want our film judged or to hear what people thought of it. Were this the case, I wouldn't have entered it at all. My response was to simply say, "I know the film has some issues, but there is a whole lot of really fun stuff to look at if you're not looking for the "issues." Perhaps I should have made the film a longer and thus exhibition only work.
Jared Meyer
Veteran
It's all good, Will. I'm actually one of the ones who didn't completely understand it on the first pass, so I'm re-watching it right now. Regardless of any story problems I might have with the short, I can definitely appreciate and applaud all of the lovingly crafted details throughout. Hope I didn't offend you in any of my comments/criticisms. I really am looking forward to the next W.I.F. project.
Hope I didn't offend you in any of my comments/criticisms. I really am looking forward to the next W.I.F. project.
Wild Imagination Films
Well-known member
Awesome factoids.
I was wondering about the snow. For some reason I thought it was real, but that's just as cool that you guys got ahold of a snow machine.
Jared, would it count as real if I told you it was only 25 degrees while we were filming the scene?
Kholi, and everyone else who offered critiques,
I was trying to respond to the specific comments made concerning the scope of the film and so on. If I came across as touchy or unwilling to listen to criticism, it was unintentional.
We made the film hoping it would be watched not so much to find the mistakes, but more to be enjoyed as vastly different from any of the other 50 films. We strove to create a world and a vision far removed from reality and the expected. No green screens, no CGI characters, just good old fashioned film-making and story telling.
I found it very interesting how several people felt it should be a longer film. I was flattered to see the word "epic" applied to it.
I wish we had had a longer time limit because it would have allowed us to follow the son longer on his trek. It might have seen more of the fairy as well. I like the idea of seeing her before he showed up. What is her daily (or nightly) life like?
Anyway, I have said my piece.
-Will
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
GAAHHHH!!! please don't adopt this new review methodology until AFTER you watch IFHY. i want to hear every impression that crosses your mind as you watch it, good or bad, filmmaker or not.
Wild Imagination Films
Well-known member
It's all good, Will. I'm actually one of the ones who didn't completely understand it on the first pass, so I'm re-watching it right now. Regardless of any story problems I might have with the short, I can definitely appreciate and applaud all of the lovingly crafted details throughout.
No offense meant, none taken.
Thank you for the compliments.
Please don't hesitate to ask for clarification. I thought everything was clearly explained, perhaps I was wrong?
More factoids...
*The set we shot on is in a two car garage. It was actually a 360 degree room built to be shot from any angle.
*Unfortunately, the walls were only 8 feet high and Nick is 6'5". This limits the angles you can shoot him from. There aren't very many shots of the two of them because of the difference in their height.
Wild Imagination Films
Well-known member
Ok Zak,
I didn't watch your entry because, in all honesty, I was offended from the moment you put the title up. I also won't be casting votes for any film with the "F-Bomb" in them. I was really incensed when I told my mother to go to the site to see the film we entered and to have her see the entire F****ing word spelled out.
Not too harsh was I?
Kholi, I'm really not trying to pick on you. Your reviews are really just a testament to how much effort you put into watching and thinking about the films. This I appreciate. You should continue to be specific about what you see.
I didn't watch your entry because, in all honesty, I was offended from the moment you put the title up. I also won't be casting votes for any film with the "F-Bomb" in them. I was really incensed when I told my mother to go to the site to see the film we entered and to have her see the entire F****ing word spelled out.
Not too harsh was I?
Kholi, I'm really not trying to pick on you. Your reviews are really just a testament to how much effort you put into watching and thinking about the films. This I appreciate. You should continue to be specific about what you see.
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
sorry. i liked yours.
Wild Imagination Films
Well-known member
I'm glad you did. I wish you had put a different title on yours. (I also couldn't get it to download.)
Evidently I am in the easily offended minority. Too bad? Seems like many other thought very highly of your project.
Evidently I am in the easily offended minority. Too bad? Seems like many other thought very highly of your project.
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
i think that's because it's about something much deeper than they expected. to give it a title that pointed at this, however, would have been presumptuous and highly pretentious. so I chose to name it after a lyric from a song that illustrated the main character's frustration and anger -- which he needed to release in all its brutal honesty before he could discover beneath it, the truth about how much he loved this girl, in the very moment he was about to lose her forever.
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