Window (day for night)

I'm only doing it if there's a chance it might look realistic, but if that isn't a possibility, I'm scraping that idea...

Turns out that this place might be open during the day and night in september so that gives me little time to shoot... It seems I might be looking for another place.

Then again, I will talk them into making me shoot the exteriors there.
The street outside is perfect.

Still, this is a good thread to discuss what to do in these situations.


If you have a location that is a dreamset for your movie, absolutely perfect and you know it can only be used during the day, while it's crucial that the scenes takes place at night, how would you solve it?

If I had the money, I would create a backdrop of the outside by taking highres photos at night and printing it on the backdrop. Then lighting it according to the streetlights. That way it won't look fake at all...
 
Me? I would forget the idea of a "dreamset" and start remembering that a scene is made up of the action and interactions of characters and events, and not by how "perfect" a set is. A bar is a bar is a bar is a bar. No one will remember the bar if the story and characters are great. The only time the set becomes memorable is if the set becomes a character (like the Seinfield diner), and I highly doubt that to be true in any short film.
 
id still say shoot at night, do a 6-6am shoot. your gona save alot more money by just shooting at night rather than spending all this money on dressing for a day to night set and all the extra post production work
 
morisato said:
Me? I would forget the idea of a "dreamset" and start remembering that a scene is made up of the action and interactions of characters and events, and not by how "perfect" a set is. A bar is a bar is a bar is a bar. No one will remember the bar if the story and characters are great. The only time the set becomes memorable is if the set becomes a character (like the Seinfield diner), and I highly doubt that to be true in any short film.
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Well, the set has a character and is a central part of the story. I think it's wrong to give a damn about the set and only focus on the characters.
Movies is about visual storytelling and, as I mentioned earlier, want a place that can look like an Edward Hopper painting... Nighthawks.
To bring something of visual beauty is as important as giving life to the characters. Remember that the room isn't just space, it's formed by humans, hence their souls are imprinted in it's architecture. The set is important, because it's almost as human as the characters within it.
It's the echo of life...

So, if your doing a Dogma movie, you will give a damn about the set and light and ****, but even if I only have my DVX100, I want to bring something visually stunning together with great acting. It's the balance between those two areas that defines a great director and it's a long road until I reach it... I'm just starting of with the hard stuff, so I know the pain before it settles down with a budget.

Just because it's drama, doesn't mean it can't be visual... that could be something David Fincher said.
 
I agree that if the set matches your exact vision, then you do whatever it takes to get it. But then again, you did say you didn't have any money for it. I'll echo what's been said in previous posts - something's got to give.

So if the only option is shoot at that very location at a very specific time, then forget all the shortcuts (gelling, backdrop, etc), just postpone the shoot while you save up the scratch to rent it out for the night. It is your dreamset, after all.
 
Glazarus said:
Well, the set has a character and is a central part of the story. I think it's wrong to give a damn about the set and only focus on the characters.
Movies is about visual storytelling and, as I mentioned earlier, want a place that can look like an Edward Hopper painting... Nighthawks.
To bring something of visual beauty is as important as giving life to the characters. Remember that the room isn't just space, it's formed by humans, hence their souls are imprinted in it's architecture. The set is important, because it's almost as human as the characters within it.
It's the echo of life...

So, if your doing a Dogma movie, you will give a damn about the set and light and shi*, but even if I only have my DVX100, I want to bring something visually stunning together with great acting. It's the balance between those two areas that defines a great director and it's a long road until I reach it... I'm just starting of with the hard stuff, so I know the pain before it settles down with a budget.

Just because it's drama, doesn't mean it can't be visual... that could be something David Fincher said.
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Well, I was never arguing that the set is not important and that ignoring the visual beauty of filmmaking to tell the story is advisable. I actually believe the exact opposite of what you accuse me of. I mean, they give out awards for it for godsakes... it must be important. A set can tell so much about the story without even saying a word, and I feel that the most distracting thing for me, when it comes to filmmaking, is the lack of beauty in the image. I can deal with plot holes and bad acting to a certain extent, but when the camera doesnt move with grace (bourne supremecy anyone?), and the image is uncomfortable to look at, I get pulled out of it. I was merely saying that the idea of a perfect set is ridiculous, and that if you believe that a set is the only set for the script, then you obviously arent putting enough effort into the other aspects of the story. To believe that the events and actions that occur in the story can only happen in this specific space signifies that you are closed to the possibilities that other people and other places can bring to the story. The biggest mistake that I see people make is that they dont allow other people and other ideas in. Trying to shoot a script to that exact picture you have in your mind will always bring terrible results. That is why you dont tell your actors how to act, you direct them. That is why you dont tell your DP what to shoot, you collaborate with him. And that is why you dont tell your editor how to cut, HE IS NOT A BUTTON PUSHER!!! (I work as a freelance editor if you havent noticed).

EDIT: Also, the image of Nighthawks is associated with a diner and not a bar, and so if it is so crucial that it is a BAR as you have stated a number of times, then you might have issues telling the story, confusing the audience as to what type of establishment it is. Bars tend to not be so open to the public with brightly lit interiors and huge windows. It sounds like there might be some issues.
 
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One aspect of being a director is to listen to other people, but you are not a director before you can filter those suggestions through your vision.
That is what a director is to all people except the actors, where it's more of a guide. So, you listen and then deside if the idea is working together with the story. If a person say something that do not support the story, it's bad directing if you use it. Saying no is as important as always listening.

As for nighthawks, it's the light and atmosphere that I'm drawing inspiration from. I'm certainly not doing "Nighthawks: The Movie", like you are saying.
It's a bar AND a café, so it's public but open for drinks later on.

Also, in Sweden, some bars have pretty big windows and some places does have whole walls taken away during summer...

vertigoanton said:
I agree that if the set matches your exact vision, then you do whatever it takes to get it. But then again, you did say you didn't have any money for it. I'll echo what's been said in previous posts - something's got to give.

So if the only option is shoot at that very location at a very specific time, then forget all the shortcuts (gelling, backdrop, etc), just postpone the shoot while you save up the scratch to rent it out for the night. It is your dreamset, after all.
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Not having money do not equal not fighting for your vision. What I see people spending most time on are techstuff and homemade gear, but putting energy into the story and it's surroundings will create a better and better looking movie. I managed to score in some photography prizes for a zerobudget movie I made, not because I put money into cameragear but into the set design and what's infront of the camera. - Just a thought on what to do when on a low budget
 
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Okay, I don't mean to sound abrasive here, but since all of the suggestions presented seem to equate to "giving up" or "not fighting" for your vision, I'm really curious to know what your gameplan will be.

I guess that from my limited experience with making movies, I always have to think like a producer (minding budget, minimizing locations, making the shoot efficient) even though I'm the director. To me, getting it in the can is the ultimate goal, even if I have to alter my vision slightly. Perhaps that's blasphemy to auteur-types, but if I can't solve a particular problem with the time I have available, the show must go on. I hope that doesn't make me a bad director - I'll just fail bigger next time. =P
 
The gameplan, as I earlier told all is probably to find another place. Not due to the day for night problem, but because the month we are going to shoot will be a month when they have open during the day and night... there's no time to shoot... also, new insider info about the owner through some friends who have friends who are friends with her son, knows that this owner is a freakin *****. I'm afraid that having her around the set will just be a dark cloud that hovers over everyones positive attitude...

So, it seems that this place is a no go so I have to find another place ASAP.
Hopefully one that are closed during the evening/night.
 
Glazarus said:
So, it seems that this place is a no go so I have to find another place ASAP.
Hopefully one that are closed during the evening/night.
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With some luck, you may be able to find a place whose owner/operator will let you use it after hours, for minimal consideration (maybe buy all your meals/beverages there before, during, and after each shooting day) and any additional cash you may be able to scrounge up. (And of course, a big thank you in the credits is a given.)
 
Okay, this might seem like a silly idea, but what the heck.

Box in the windows (on the outside) with thick black cloth. Then blow heavy fog into the cloth box. Put in a line of dialogue that mentions how heavy the fog is tonight. This eliminates the problem of not seeing any lights outside the windows. :-)
 
BTW, for "Afterlife" we were able to shoot a night scene in a bar -- we just shot after the bar closed at night. Granted, it was a late, late night for us, but we got the scene we needed. Is that a possibility for you?
 
chapelgrovefilms said:
Okay, this might seem like a silly idea, but what the heck.

Box in the windows (on the outside) with thick black cloth. Then blow heavy fog into the cloth box. Put in a line of dialogue that mentions how heavy the fog is tonight. This eliminates the problem of not seeing any lights outside the windows. :-)
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Haha, silly, but actually, it's not that bad. The fog works good with the idea of the outside being cold... also, there's a bomb going of further down the street, so it could also be fog from that :)

But I don't think there's money for that though... need to look into things.

chapelgrovefilms said:
BTW, for "Afterlife" we were able to shoot a night scene in a bar -- we just shot after the bar closed at night. Granted, it was a late, late night for us, but we got the scene we needed. Is that a possibility for you?
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I don't think the team or actors care so much about the time, because I already told them this seems to be a nightshoot throughout.
But the owner of the place is a freakin ***** and she have said that she won't allow us being there at night, because she don't like it... She's not a ***** because of that, but it adds to her bitchiness.
 
Glazarus said:
I don't think the team or actors care so much about the time, because I already told them this seems to be a nightshoot throughout.
But the owner of the place is a freakin ***** and she have said that she won't allow us being there at night, because she don't like it... She's not a ***** because of that, but it adds to her bitchiness.
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Do yourself a favor....find a different location. You're setting yourself up for more headaches and grief than even the 'perfect' location is worth. There are always other fish in the sea. Find someone who is friendly, helpful, and excited about having a film crew in his/her place. If you go with this unfriendly person, you'll regret it in the end. Trust me.
 
Well, I already said that we may not be able to film even during the day...
The place has a weird 7eleven schedule... :P
 
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