Will the HMC 150 be the last CCD cam?

D

D.R. Gates

Well-known member
And if so, how long can we expect Panasonic to keep manufacturing it? I do wedding work, and that means that CCD's work best for me, at least while photographers are firing off flashes as if they were paparazzi.
 
I am a big CCD camera fan. I have not heard of any of the big camera manufacturers are doing any more development along this line. The first company to implement a global shutter with CMOS will probably do very well.
 
I am a big CCD camera fan
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I am too, I think it's crazy not to have a ccd cam in the tool box. Especially considering their so cheap these days. I still have two xha1's. just cant part with um.
 
Given that the HMC150 came out in 2008, and no new 1/3" CCD cameras have come from them since, I think it may be fair to say that yes, the HMC150 will be the last Panasonic 1/3" CCD. And Sony isn't making any anymore either. And Canon doesn't make any tapeless CCD cameras. The only other option for a 1/3" CCD is JVC, and even they have started moving to CMOS sensors in their new cameras; only their 700 line and their HM150 are still CCD, all their newer models are CMOS.
 
Shooting 2 weddings last Saturday reminded me of just how many flashes happen. Plus I often find myself shooting with the camera way above my head or gliding just above the floor, or on a jib or steadycam - all scenarios where I need autofocus to work. Add to the mix, theater/dance and high speed car videos and I really fear CMOS just isn't going to cut it (yet, anyway). I'm actually considering buying hmc150s now, even though they are old, can't do DV, or 1080/60p, and have a short zoom. Does jvc offer any CCD cameras that might be a little newer and better than the old hmc150?
I might actually consider them at this point.
 
Hi FireHawk

I found that only the 1/3" CMOS chips give an issue..the 1/4" chips seem way better...no skew and I haven't yet seen flash banding either and definately no jello..the thing that I really didn't like with the AC-130 was zoom in just a bit (say 4X) and if you touch the camera the image wobbles badly..on the HMC40/80 if you bump the image may move but it doesn't bounce like the 1/3rd chips!! I wonder why ..I sold my 130's after just 3 months !!!

AFAIK the only really decent JVC's are the 750 or 790 which puts you back into shoulder mount cams and they are a lot more to buy too!!! Over here nearly twice the price of the AC-130!!! However the lenses are awesome but again batteries are very expensive too!!! Their "newest" seems to be the HM790

Chris
 
ChrisHarding said:
Hi FireHawk

I found that only the 1/3" CMOS chips give an issue..the 1/4" chips seem way better...no skew and I haven't yet seen flash banding either and definately no jello..the thing that I really didn't like with the AC-130 was zoom in just a bit (say 4X) and if you touch the camera the image wobbles badly..on the HMC40/80 if you bump the image may move but it doesn't bounce like the 1/3rd chips!! I wonder why ..I sold my 130's after just 3 months !!!

AFAIK the only really decent JVC's are the 750 or 790 which puts you back into shoulder mount cams and they are a lot more to buy too!!! Over here nearly twice the price of the AC-130!!! However the lenses are awesome but again batteries are very expensive too!!! Their "newest" seems to be the HM790

Chris
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I don't think that it's a 1/3" vs 1/4" issue. I have an HMC40 with 1/4" chips and it certainly exhibits all of the various cmos artifacts; skew, wobble, and flash banding. How much depends on a few factors, such as the frame rate. The skew in 60p is very well controlled, but 24p can get pretty jello-y if one is not careful. Zooming in can amplify the jello effect as well. I would be surprised if the AC-130 is actually worse than the HMC40 wrt skew when all factors (frame rate, focal length, etc.) are taken into account.
 
The 1/4" HMC40 and HMC80 exhibit a lot more skew than the 1/3" AC130 does, in 24p. In 720/60p or 1080/60i they're more comparable, but in 24p the 1/4" cameras have a lot more skew.
 
How does the hmc150 hold up against the hmc80 and ac130/160 and the jvc cameras?
Gosh i dont like the idea of buying a camera that old that is lacking several things. How about low light?
 
Hi Firehawk
My cams are mainly used for weddings so it normally a well lit ceremony venue and dim and dingy reception... Yes the 1/3rd chips were better at receptions BUT not that much better!! When a venue has little fairy lights as the source you have to use lighting anyway so the clip size becomes less of an issue. The 150 will slaughter the 40/80 in low light naturally because of chip size!! I think it all depends on what you normally shoot?? If I did mainly dance recitals I would be using a 150 cos I don't need any portability or shoulder-mount and the big chips help the low light of theatres.

I haven't seen anything really awesome on the 130/160 series that the 150 doesn't have apart from the area function. What has the 160 have that the 150 doesn't AND do you really need it??? I think the bottom line with any camera regardless of make or model is to use the camera that is most suited to the work it will be doing most so you could be looking at anything from a Handicam to a top range DSLR and everything in between.

Chris
 
Thanks chris,
I'm seriously thinking about getting some 150s. I'm concerned about low light and the fact that it only records on a single card. If I use the more expensive panasonic cards, are they pretty reliable?

Are u using an on-camera light for receptions?
If so, what do u recommend?

How does the video quality of the 150 compare to the 130-160 in good light?
The footage I've seen looks pretty comparable.


I haven't seen anything really awesome on the 130/160 series that the 150 doesn't have apart from the area function. What has the 160 have that the 150 doesn't AND do you really need it??? I think the bottom line with any camera regardless of make or model is to use the camera that is most suited to the work it will be doing most so you could be looking at anything from a Handicam to a top range DSLR and everything in between.

Chris[/QUOTE]
 
Comer is fantastic as far as on board lighting goes. Id echo other posts. CCD is a joy. Easy to stabilize in post, great for sychroscan.. As much as I hate weddings (mainly wedding photographers) the HMC is a rock.

My only main complaint is the resolution. The HMC has a soft image. So soft that a debate errupted over whether 720or 1080 was 'better'..Pp
 
firehawk said:
Thanks chris,
I'm seriously thinking about getting some 150s. I'm concerned about low light and the fact that it only records on a single card. If I use the more expensive panasonic cards, are they pretty reliable?

Are u using an on-camera light for receptions?
If so, what do u recommend?

How does the video quality of the 150 compare to the 130-160 in good light?
The footage I've seen looks pretty comparable.


I haven't seen anything really awesome on the 130/160 series that the 150 doesn't have apart from the area function. What has the 160 have that the 150 doesn't AND do you really need it??? I think the bottom line with any camera regardless of make or model is to use the camera that is most suited to the work it will be doing most so you could be looking at anything from a Handicam to a top range DSLR and everything in between.

Chris
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Well based upon my experience in shooting with the HMC150 and AC160 at the same events, I can say a few things about this.
First off, the HMC150 is one of the more reliable cams that I have owned to date. Great that way. I never really worried about having just one card slot, as I never had a card issue out in the field. I do use a combination of Panasonic and Sandisk Extreme 16GB cards.

Low light the two are a bit different. I'd say the low light of the AC160 is a bit cleaner, less noisey....although that has not been a real problem for me on the 150, shooting concerts and the like.

Video quality between the two in good light, like a well lit stage production, they are very close. The 160 is a bit sharper, although I have never reaklly had an issue with sharpness on the 150. As a means of comparison, it is certainly as sharp as my Canon XHA1s. No problem there. The AC160 is crisper in the image.

Really awesome features that the AC160 has that the 150 does not, well for me that list starts with the AC160's much superior LPCM audio, it's great stuff. Much improved over the 150, if in-cam audio is important to you. It is to me, as I don't have to carry a separate audio recorder with me to capture audio uncompressed. That is important to me.

Number Two is that the 160 can capture in 1080/60P. I think that's a real advantage, although in truth I have not really done much with it yet due to my schedule as of late.

Then I would list the Function button, the somewhat sharper image, less noise, vastly improved LCD dual card slots, etc.


In my view, the big advantage the HMC150 has is in its ability to be used in full auto and use Auto Focus and still produce a decent image fairly reliably. If that is not an advantage to you, and you would use whichever one you get mostly in manual, then you may as well get the AC130/160.
 
firehawk said:
and the fact that it only records on a single card. If i use the more expensive panasonic cards, are they pretty reliable?

Chris
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the panasonic gold cards are terrible, they are really expensive and i had one die on me under normal use, with my camera. and panasonic refused to replace it for me.

I had not had it for more than 3 months before it died. Never dropped it, never got wet, scratched, anything
 
Hi Firehawk

My main issue with the 130's is that you can forget about auto...focus and iris especially..the fact that with iris you still have to manually change ND's ..On the 40/80 series ND's are automatic..I was switching ND's so much at wedding I was really worried that the little shaft would break off!! Now I haven't compared the 150/160 sharpness personally but well know sources have said the little 40/80 chips have a sharper image than the 150's but then again I have seen razor sharp 150 video!!! If I was in your shoes I would try to borrow a 130 or 160 and see for yourself if you like the camera...I really didn't like them and despite lot's of tweaks and work, I still think my HMC82's give a better end result..Hey, that's only me!!! You might love them??? I just figured that for double the price I was going to get a huge improvement and I didn't. Yeah unless you need the LPCM audio and SDI then the 130 is all you need. If you have lot's of time to shoot full manual then the 130 is a great camera but I two with 2 cams solo so I have to have auto sometimes..I also shoot on stedicam and you do need auto there as well!! I'm also used to shoulder mount cameras and you definately need a rig to hand hold the 130 (and an extra EVF) ...if you are not doing run 'gun with two cams and work mainly on tripod and are happier with manual then grab a 130 but don't expect auto to work correctly cos it doesn't!!! The 150 auto works preety darn well though!!

My current lights are PowerLED and I use the one with 6 x 3W leds and if you look on eBay they are called the "5010A" ..it's a copy Comer for less than $80 are is good ..pushes out 1050 lumens on a Sony battery and lasts all night!!

Chris
 
D.R. Gates said:
So to my second question I asked, do you think Panasonic will keep the 150 in it's line-up for a couple more years before they retire it?
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They'll keep it in the lineup as long as it keeps selling. There's no incentive to them to retire something that's still in demand. So as long as people still want it, they'll still offer it.

The HMC150 may not be as new-tech as the AC130, or as sharp, but it's a wonderful compact size and its autofocus is lightning quick and it's so light, it's a really nice little camera.
 
the panasonic gold cards are terrible, they are really expensive and i had one die on me under normal use, with my camera. and panasonic refused to replace it for me.

I had not had it for more than 3 months before it died. Never dropped it, never got wet, scratched, anything
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I use the Panasonic golds as my primary cards and have been using them for four years, I've bought lots of them and they've been utterly reliable and rock solid. Your experience is unfortunate, but I don't think it's fair to say that it's representative of most uses as I don't think I've heard of anyone else on this forum who's said they've had a failure on the golds.
 
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