C100: Will the A7S put the hurt on the C100?

i see the two cams in totally different places.

The C100 is the cheapest fully functional S35 camera (XLR ND)

The Sony is massive fun for using as a tiny little Bcam

S
 
Yup, at half a million (HALF A MILLION) ISO, it's just beginning to look like it was filmed on a slightly dodgy camera in low light. And it's at night. AT NIGHT.

It is rather extreme. I feel like I need to own one of these cameras with a Metabones adaptor, not as a main camera, but as something that steps between the C100 and the GoPro. As a main camera, it will be an absolute pig. But as a second camera, a 'special forces' camera, borrowing the C100's lenses, it could do many things. Den Lennies 'Smokies' film showed how it can be the sort of camera that can fit on a hexacopter (Phantom?), how it can mix with bigger cameras with S-Log, do the 'wafer thin' DoF trick and NOT look like a Canon DSLR (which to me is the biggest selling factor). Yes, audio is a challenge without the £600 K1M, it's an itty bitty teeny weeny camera made out of slabs of unobtanium, therefore slippery and unforgiving, but hey. Look at the pictures!
 
MattDavis said:
Yup, at half a million (HALF A MILLION) ISO, it's just beginning to look like it was filmed on a slightly dodgy camera in low light. And it's at night. AT NIGHT.

It is rather extreme. I feel like I need to own one of these cameras with a Metabones adaptor, not as a main camera, but as something that steps between the C100 and the GoPro. As a main camera, it will be an absolute pig. But as a second camera, a 'special forces' camera, borrowing the C100's lenses, it could do many things. Den Lennies 'Smokies' film showed how it can be the sort of camera that can fit on a hexacopter (Phantom?), how it can mix with bigger cameras with S-Log, do the 'wafer thin' DoF trick and NOT look like a Canon DSLR (which to me is the biggest selling factor). Yes, audio is a challenge without the £600 K1M, it's an itty bitty teeny weeny camera made out of slabs of unobtanium, therefore slippery and unforgiving, but hey. Look at the pictures!
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Yep, the ability to use it in very guerilla situations and use it on support systems like drones and even jibs that shoot up in cost when you need to support a huge heavy camera like the C100 makes sense.

I also had to do some 20,000 ISO shots with the C100 that didn't turn out too well.
 
Nope. It’s going backwards. I will not be shooting my main camera with a hybrid stills camera. I’ve evolved. This decision is for people that can’t afford a C100. DSLR’s that shoot video is a compromise these days. Plenty of other better options. Unless you really like spending another $1K plus on a rig and another $2K on a 4K recorder if you what to shoot 4K and figure out a audio solution. The camera turns into a hot mess.
We are in the infancy of 4K acquisition for the masses. If you want a HD camera you can do better unless your budget only allows you to afford the a7s or even the GH4 which I think is a much better camera and has a better path to true 4K with the silly looking but very effective YAGH. The allure of full frame strikes again.
I’m not saying the a7s isn’t going to be a great camera. I’m pretty sure it is just not replacement for a well thought out proper video camera.
 
Erik Naso said:
Nope. It’s going backwards. I will not be shooting my main camera with a hybrid stills camera. I’ve evolved. This decision is for people that can’t afford a C100. DSLR’s that shoot video is a compromise these days. Plenty of other better options. Unless you really like spending another $1K plus on a rig and another $2K on a 4K recorder if you what to shoot 4K and figure out a audio solution. The camera turns into a hot mess.
We are in the infancy of 4K acquisition for the masses. If you want a HD camera you can do better unless your budget only allows you to afford the a7s or even the GH4 which I think is a much better camera and has a better path to true 4K with the silly looking but very effective YAGH. The allure of full frame strikes again.
I’m not saying the a7s isn’t going to be a great camera. I’m pretty sure it is just not replacement for a well thought out proper video camera.
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Good points, but Canon is getting annoying by not giving 1080/60fps for a decent price. That's the most interesting thing to me about these cameras, not the 4K resolution
 
Rain Man said:
Good points, but Canon is getting annoying by not giving 1080/60fps for a decent price. That's the most interesting thing to me about these cameras, not the 4K resolution
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I feel that working with a camera with no XLR's and no ND filters is a lot more annoying. I could never go back and shot with a DSLR as a A-cam. There's is no camera that can do it all, but the C00, for me, is almost that.
 
Doug_EX said:
I feel that working with a camera with no XLR's and no ND filters is a lot more annoying. I could never go back and shot with a DSLR as a A-cam. There's is no camera that can do it all, but the C00, for me, is almost that.
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Agreed, I should have clarified that I would consider it as a B cam to my C100. Definitely not an A cam - but it would be a pretty powerful b cam filling that 60fps gap from the C100.
 
Erik Naso said:
Nope. It’s going backwards. I will not be shooting my main camera with a hybrid stills camera. I’ve evolved. This decision is for people that can’t afford a C100. DSLR’s that shoot video is a compromise these days. Plenty of other better options. Unless you really like spending another $1K plus on a rig and another $2K on a 4K recorder if you what to shoot 4K and figure out a audio solution. The camera turns into a hot mess.
We are in the infancy of 4K acquisition for the masses. If you want a HD camera you can do better unless your budget only allows you to afford the a7s or even the GH4 which I think is a much better camera and has a better path to true 4K with the silly looking but very effective YAGH. The allure of full frame strikes again.
I’m not saying the a7s isn’t going to be a great camera. I’m pretty sure it is just not replacement for a well thought out proper video camera.
Click to expand...

There are a few things that theoretically sets the A7S very much apart from the DSLR scene. This is all IGNORING 4K and external recording.

- The image quality and codec is on C100/C300 level, better at high iso. A big DSLR downfall to start with.
- Sony has developed a very C100 like XLR audio setup that seems like it will not be a pain to deal with. It just mounts directly on the hotshoe.
- It has a very high quality, large EVF with peaking which - again theoretically - might mean it's very usable out of the box in a similar way to the C100, without the need for a zacuto zfinder!

With no rigging you're getting great quality 1080p60 footage on a 50mbps codec, XLR connections and potentially good ergonomics due to the lightweight, grip and EVF. 4K potential is just a nice bonus.

The only thing it doesn't have is the NDs.

Again, once I get my hands on it I might find the lightweight means I wont get handheld footage as good as the C100, even when held up to my eye with an IS lens. The C100 certainly gives off a nice heavy camera look. Time will tell I suppose.

I'm curious to know if anyone thinks it will or wont work as an out of the box, handheld run and gun video camera?
 
I've never owned, or even used, a DSLR... But as a way to use my old super16 lenses I bought a Pocket Camera to augment my C100. I spent a month setting it up with cage, EVF, pre-amp - as Zorba said, "the full catastrophe" - and got it to match perfectly despite the codec differences... But when it came time to use it on a serious shoot I got burned out of fiddling with NDs before the 1st day was over... I ended up using my C100 exclusively...

Convenience - NDs, XLRs, the seldom mentioned ability to set important adjustments with the grip. and the quality squeezed out of AVCHD - makes the C100 a hard camera to beat handheld.
 
Sony a7s with Shogun.jpg

Here is a little a7s camera porn for ya with Atomos Shogun.

GH4 All YAGHed up.jpg

GH4 all YAGHed up with Aja kiPro. Love those rigs!
 
I hope so. The C100 is really starting to look quite outdated, but I still want one over any of these new announcements. Does anyone have any theories as to when the price may drop again?
 
Seeing those rigged up DSLRs Erik posted just makes me appreciate the fact that I can pull my C100 out of the bag and shoot. When I had the FS100 I always hated the feeling that I needed to play erector set with the camera before it was ready to effectively shoot. These new 4K-but-only-with-external-box cameras seem even worse.

I was at NAB this year and my friend and I both agreed that the new 4K stuff just seemed half baked. I'm sticking with my C100 for at least another year to let 4K shake itself out.
 
jbregar said:
Seeing those rigged up DSLRs Erik posted just makes me appreciate the fact that I can pull my C100 out of the bag and shoot. When I had the FS100 I always hated the feeling that I needed to play erector set with the camera before it was ready to effectively shoot. These new 4K-but-only-with-external-box cameras seem even worse.

I was at NAB this year and my friend and I both agreed that the new 4K stuff just seemed half baked. I'm sticking with my C100 for at least another year to let 4K shake itself out.
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Agreed. There's a resolution test in the GH camera section of a GH4 vs C100. They're almost identical when the 4K is resampled. And no one's talking about the added time in post, which is significant. I like the specs on the A7s, but I'm more interested in the ability to shoot Sony Log, which I think is a stop better than Canon log or Wide DR. Also, other Sony cameras have an auto ISO feature which is fantastic if you need auto exposure (smooth exposure changes, no change in depth of field, and it can be set with exposure compensation to avoid highlight clipping) - if the A7s has this it could be a great B camera. As for 4K, until everyone has 4K TVs, it's just a gimmick.
 
draculr said:
There are a few things that theoretically sets the A7S very much apart from the DSLR scene. This is all IGNORING 4K and external recording.

- The image quality and codec is on C100/C300 level, better at high iso. A big DSLR downfall to start with.
- Sony has developed a very C100 like XLR audio setup that seems like it will not be a pain to deal with. It just mounts directly on the hotshoe.
- It has a very high quality, large EVF with peaking which - again theoretically - might mean it's very usable out of the box in a similar way to the C100, without the need for a zacuto zfinder!

With no rigging you're getting great quality 1080p60 footage on a 50mbps codec, XLR connections and potentially good ergonomics due to the lightweight, grip and EVF. 4K potential is just a nice bonus.

The only thing it doesn't have is the NDs.

Again, once I get my hands on it I might find the lightweight means I wont get handheld footage as good as the C100, even when held up to my eye with an IS lens. The C100 certainly gives off a nice heavy camera look. Time will tell I suppose.

I'm curious to know if anyone thinks it will or wont work as an out of the box, handheld run and gun video camera?
Click to expand...

For ND, you could use a HolyManta or Vizilex lens adapter with selectable/built-in VND... or heck, just slap a +4-8 ND on there at all times and kick ISO up to a clean ~6400 or whatever indoors!

For a lot of uses, this is going to be a very good camera, and I can envision using it exactly as I've used the C100 - as a smaller, cheaper B-cam to whatever broadcast A-cam is deployed... but even smaller. Even smaller than all the CaNikon DSLR's that need all sorts of assorted faff to deploy properly. Throw two of them in a carry-on sized backpack with a triad of lenses, several batteries, a pair of mics, and several SD cards and conquer the world.

It'll have a record time limit, so it'll be challenging to use for events, no back-of-the-room presentation stuff, I won't be shooting off the shoulder for hours on end with it (but then I wouldn't choose a C100 for that application either). Some stuff is likely to be hidden in menus, or buttons in not quite the right places, but it'll shoot interviews on a tripod just fine, get good audio, and grab quick B-roll shots easily. It will be plenty useable.
 
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