Will I benefit from filmschool?

J

Jardoss

Active member
Hey fellow filmfriends!
Recently, i've been thinking a lot about whether I need filmschool, or not. As you all know, the fee for a 3 year education as a director is skyhigh.


As a 16 year old, I feel I master the basics of storytelling and film to be at my age. (writing a 90 minute feature to be shot with RED ONE at the moment. Managed to get my hands on 7-10 000$).


However, the reason I would go to filmschool would be networking, and of course, learn how the pros do it. I read A LOT of books, and learn a huuuge amount. I also have a few connections with some directors, and have some connections within the film industry. I want to know more about filmmaking, but feel I am able to simply read my way to the same knowledge, or analyze enough?


My biggest problem is this: How am I supposed to make film, which requires a tremendous amount of time, without starving in the process?


Will I benefit from filmschool? Or is there a way to succeed without doing so?
And say I go to filmschool, what happens next?


This is my plan, if I decide to go to filmschool:
I want to learn the mainstream american blockbuster way of directing a movie. This way I'll know exactly how to tell a story, and what needs to be done to present an idea for an audience.
When ive mastered this, i wanna break it apart, and make my own style. Which school would grant me this wish?


I know these are questions that'll probably sound stupid to some of you. But I really really wanna spend the rest of my life making movies, and telling stories :)

UPDATE: Thanks to all of you, I applied to USC and actually got in. I'll be attending the Film & Tv program starting this fall! I submitted the trailer for my latest film as my "visual sample", do have a look if you're interested: https://vimeo.com/99476341


Looking forward to hear from you,
Jarand B. Herdal
 
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Jardoss said:
As a 16 year old, I feel I master the basics of storytelling and film to be at my age. (writing a 90 minute feature to be shot with RED ONE at the moment. Managed to get my hands on 7-10 000$).
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Jarand, please don't take this the wrong way.

At 16, everyone feels they're the master of their field. I was there myself half a lifetime ago (I'm now 33).
You still have a really long way to go. It doesn't mean you're not gifted or talented, or that you can't one day become the best at what you do, but don't mistake the confidence that comes with youth with experience.

There is still a great deal of things you need to learn, and film school, if you pick a good one, is still a great place to learn it.
It's also a great place to make contacts, get a foot into the industry, borrow equipent and consult experienced seasoned professionals.

If you can go, you should.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong when it comes to schools, but UCLA and AFI are pretty good, right?
 
You will definitely benefit, the NYU undergrad program is pretty good, as is AFI and UCLA and Columbia. If your parents are paying for it even better! You will learn a ton, and if you go and can do it without taking on debt even better.

If I were 16 I would make a bunch of shorts now and use those to apply to a good undergrad program. A good short film will do a lot more for you than a poorly executed 10k feature film. If it's your first feature I can almost guarantee that it will be downright unwatchable, and no admission committee is going to watch 90 minutes of a low budget awful film. I don't think it's worth going to filmschool if you're not going to a decent program.
 
Isaac_Brody said:
I don't think it's worth going to filmschool if you're not going to a decent program.
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Didn't catch that?

Of course, don't get me wrong, I know I have a HUGE amount to learn. Really.
But, as you said, it costs a lot of money, and my parents are not willing or capable to pay that huge fee. Unfortunately.
So how did you guys do it? How did you get the money to go to filmschool?


Haha, oh well, I'll work on my feature, and post it here when its finished. I believe in my idea, and I'll do anything to make it more than watchcable :)

So in short, you both recommend UCLA? Had a look at the school, and it seems great! Definitely remember that one ;)

Thanks again for your help, very nice of you!
Jarand
 
For what you're wanting to do, I would recommend Vancouver Film School or USC. USC being the top choice for what you described.

AFI always produced great writers when I was working and going to school in the LA area in the nineties.

Focus now on making a great film, a short, to gain entry into one of these programs (they are very competitive). Check out their websites, their course listings. Call the registrar and see if there are alumni from your program that you could contact about the program.

Before you decide watch Good Will Hunting and see if maybe you could save some money, believe in yourself a little bit more by staying away from schools and focusing on the trade. Read the books, get out and shoot, put together a crew. School's always going to be there. Now there are thousands of "film" programs at Universities. Worthless IMHO. You can learn the same info on the internet for free. That degree is expensive and student debt is a growing problem now in the US. How much is it worth when everyone has one?

If I has to do it over, I'd take all that time and money I spent and start a small business making films. If you want to make hollywood films AND you want to go to college and it's paid for, stick to USC and AFI. Look into UCLA. Their program may be a sleeper.

You can always change your mind. Good luck.
 
Thank you such a great answer!

In other words, you recommend USC and AFI, over UCLA? What's the specific difference?
So making really good shorts will give me a better chance? Got it!
Good Will Hunting?

Anyway, thank you!
You answered a whole lot of my questions. Basically, i wanna know If it's possible to become successfull without going to filmsschool, and how.

Love meeting such helpful people,
Jarand
 
Of course it's possible to be successful without ever having stepped foot into a "film school."

Most of the technical, basic stuff I have learned has come from books, research, DVXUser, and maybe a few classes from the three years I've spent in film school. However, there is a great amount I learned from just doing - working short films, feature films, TV shows, and commercials - stuff you just can't learn in a classroom. 90% of those opportunities have come from my connections through school. I will graduate in May from a school you've probably never heard of, but because it is right in the heart of DFW, it's somewhat connected. I just exploit those connections, and now I will graduate comfortably with a well-paying job and a solid freelance career on top of it.

It's what you make of it.

I have to agree with what Jawa said, though. If you have little or no experience making films, and you're jumping into making a feature, it will likely be terrible. This isn't an insult to your ambition or intelligence, but rather a testament to what you simply don't know yet. And we're not saying that all of us have all the answers, too. I JUST wrote and directed my first short after 7 semesters in school, but I've worked on about 50 productions before that of all shapes and sizes in order to learn what you just can't learn in a classroom - while also taking classes from people who know what they're doing. And after directing that film, I learned 1,001 things - things I'd do differently the next time around - but I'd rather have one solid, strong film than a slew of mediocre productions no one wants to see.

There are a ton of benefits to school, you just have to find them and seize them. Also, federal student loans and grants will cover most, if not all, of your expenses. Concentrate on being a marketable professional upon graduation, and you'll be able to pay everything off over a sound period of time.
 
Yes, go to school. Yes, major in film!

School teaches you more than only how to master your craft. You`ll learn things that will help you in life that you never expected. That`s the unknown- you can`t anticipate these things.

Even if you can`t afford the best school, work hard right now and get as many scholarships as you can.
This of course means working hard in classes that might not be seemingly relevant to film- (they are, however) like math, science, and literature.
But scholarships love a high GPA! So get those A`s.


Go to the best school that you can with a film program and learn everything you can there. Even if it isn`t the best school in the world, it`s your drive and talent that will carry you through, not your diploma.

Once you`re out of college, find yourself the most ambitious internship you can.

And never stop learning- inside of school, and outside of school.
 
The only problem with USC is that not everyone gets to make films there. I looked at it before applying to schools and know people who have come out of the program who were trained to take on crew jobs but who were not given the chance to direct. Unless that has changed, I would say look at NYU. (I'm in the grad film program there but know a lot of talented people in the undergrad program as well) It's a strenuous undergrad program and everyone has to write and direct there, you don't have a choice. It's pretty intense and you get what you you pay for. Why would one go to film school if you are paying all that money and not able to develop your skills/voice/write/direct? Perhaps some USC people lurking on here can weigh in on that.

Or, if you have the drive and focus just do it. That is possible as well, if you can do all of that without film school more power to you. There's no set journey for this, and work ethic and drive at the end of the day will make more of a difference in your success than any film school can. The beauty of film school is that you're surrounded by talent who is there to push and help you get better, and there really is an advantage to building a network and having that time to focus on your craft. Not to mention locations and cities, that is a huge advantage as well. New York City is a huge asset for filmmaking, you can literally shoot without a permit on the streets. Or the fact that the acting pool to draw on here is world class. These are all things to consider.
 
Wow, you guys are great!
Already convinced, i'm going to filmschool!
Just have to pick the right one, and work my way up.
This is the thing: I personally hate mainstream blockbusters (Thor, Green Lantern etc.) but the way they're directed is the most common way to direct a film in Hollywood these days. Therefore I wanna know how this is done, and then create my own version, which will hopefully be better^^

Oh wow, they actually care about the GPA? Argh, that's a downer. Got a decent GPA. Hanging around the B-A's, but still.

Take a look at the first 5 minutes of my latest film (don't bother with the rest. Loads of technical issues, didn't have time. Since I'm still at "normal" school.) and "Deja Vu", on the right side:
http://vimeo.com/32008400
Double this, and you get my "level" at this moment. I learn best from doing huge projects, that require me to think film 24/7, read, watch and do everything in my power to make a good film.
BUT, as you all said, it's the shorts that get you into filmschool ;)

A bit off topic, but how do you get jobs? Say, I wanna direct a commercial or even a feature, and I cant starve during that time, what do I do?
Anybody heard anything about NFTS in London btw? heard it's a great school.

Once again, thanks!
Jarand
 
Isaac_Brody said:
I would say look at NYU.
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Wow great! This sounds amazing! Love NYC as well :)
And as you said, filming without permit with all of those actors... Dreamlike.
Exaclty, being surrounded by talented people, and people constantly talking about film must be such a great place to work.

So this is my list so far:
NYU/UCLA
NFTS
AFI
USC

Sounds good?

Thanks again!
Jarand
 
Nice work! Your stuff has a decent polish and execution, but it is weak on narrative and story. Those things you'd get from filmschool. For making money if you haven't already done this look for films being shot near you, contact them to help out on the crew. If you have experience on the lighting side you can grip/gaffer for cash, or if you're on camera crew I suggest asking to be trained for assistant camera positions. If you work hard and network you can find these gigs near you that pay a little cash. If you don't have experience on sets you'd be a producion assistant. These jobs are unglamorous but you learn the set hierarchy and how things function on a bigger film set. Jobs that pay the bills decently? Learn how to produce, or become an editor and intern at post production houses that work on commercials. If you did all the sfx in your shorts yourself that talent with after effects and 3D is in demand at a lot of places.
 
Oh wow, thanks!
I know exactly what I did wrong in that film, got a bunch of critic from this forum. Reading "Save the cat" as well as three other books on writing and directing. Hoping that I'll get this feature right on track.

I have been an extra in three films, know a lot of people in the industry simply by being real curious about everything when I get on set. So thanks! Definetely look into that!
I'm into directing. LOVE telling stories, and waking emotions. Simply in love with it.
I had the HP film on a theatre and managed to get some income there, not a lot, but still some for being at my age.

Thank you again, you teach me an amazing amount of stuff here! Really appreciate it! ;)

Jarand
 
Jardoss said:
Already convinced, i'm going to filmschool!
Just have to pick the right one, and work my way up.
Click to expand...

I'm going to quote another DVXUser here -

"Focus on being elite at your school instead of being at an elite school."

Say, I wanna direct a commercial or even a feature, and I cant starve during that time, what do I do?
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Start in grunt positions. Outwork everyone else. Make connections with as many professionals as you can. Outwork everyone else. Make connections. Get lucky. Outwork everyone else.

This is not an industry for the feint of heart or the paper-skinned. It's going to kick your ass at times. It's going to suck at times. You're not going to direct a commercial or a feature just because you seem nice or have ambition. You are going to need three things to do what you want to do - Experience, Connection, and Skill. Talent is merely the beginnings; Skill is developed Talent.
 
The more you know, the more you realize you don't know. If you haven't even read a book on story or narrative, then chances are you haven't taped into the vaste world of it, that happens to be very complex and tricky.

Your work is impressive for a 16 year old. However there are scenes that are very under-lit, moments that are too shaky, editing that felt a bit blocky, and narrative moments that felt a bit strange with scenes not flowing from one into the other. It's easy to look at your work and say it's amazing because the camera looks nice, you have good color grading, and some pretty neat special effects. Plus the actors aren't half bad. However look at your work as a whole and build from there.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad, I'm just trying to help you. Humility is very important IMO, and something a lot of filmmakers don't develop at a young age.

You can definitely benefit from film school, depending on what's taught there. I went through a film school, but it wasn't anything special. Coming out of it I didn't feel I was taught a lot. HOWEVER, I felt that film school gave me three things. One is deadlines (you have to complete this project or else you fail), two is equipment, and three is contacts (which is most important IMO). I'm still good friends with everyone and most of my current crew are all former class-mates.

Just remember going in, there may be people with little to no experience. So be sure to go in with very little ego, and take the knowledge where it comes, rather than resenting the knowledge you already know. Maybe because I've been a TA for the film classes, but I've seen a lot of people coming in with huge egos, and they don't get the full extent of their education because they feel they're above it all.

Good luck!
 
So true, to all three of you.
Start small, help and be helped, don't be too high on yourself and get the most out of everything.

@Jon Starr: Have read loads of books since I made the Harry Potter film (which was J.K.Rowling's story visualized) on both story, and narrative.
And fully aware of everything you said. This will definitely be taken with me! And to look at a film as a whole and say its good is really hard, and my number one goal!

Thank you all, you have taught me a lot, and I'm extremely grateful :)
I'll absolutely look into to DVXfest! Thanks a lot!

And as you all said, I'm only 16, but almost too ambitious with what I wanna do with my life, and not willing to give up my dream:)

Thanks again to all of you, you've helped me one step further ;)

I'll post my feature "EVERYWHEN" when it's finished here on DVX, so make sure to give me harsh critics, so I can get better!
This is the logline: "An average man has to fight his way from a mirrored reality back to his own, to save his 5 year old suicidal brother."

Here's the fundraiser page for the film: http://www.indiegogo.com/everywhen?a=369962
Here's our facebook: http://www.facebook.com/JARANDandJENS
If you wanna stick around;)

Thanks,
Jarand B. Herdal
 
I'm only 16, but almost too ambitious with what I wanna do with my life, and not willing to give up my dream
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For the precise reason, you should not be wasting your time in a filmschool. While I agree with posters talking about how beneficial filmschools are(for certain type of people), in your case it would be a total waste of talent, time, financial resources.

Keep doing what you are doing to build your network (working on commercials and film sets and making short films in your spare time) in addition to;
-Reading & watching autobiographical works of auters (Sidney Lumet's 'Making Movies' is a good start) so that you learn about directing actors which is ` of the job
-Go to part time actor's workshop to get yourself familiar with an actor's inner world; explore how they function.
-Explore as many as director's works you can, watch a foreign film every day. (filmref.com is a great source for directors & their films)
-Expand your culture on music, literature, history or whatever you are into.

This is the thing: I personally hate mainstream blockbusters (Thor, Green Lantern etc.) but the way they're directed is the most common way to direct a film in Hollywood these days. Therefore I wanna know how this is done, and then create my own version, which will hopefully be better^^
Click to expand...
If you wanna serve to mass expectation all you need to do is act like one. No need to goto a school to learn mediocracy, just look around.

My biggest problem is this: How am I supposed to make film, which requires a tremendous amount of time, without starving in the process?
Click to expand...
Simple; Beg, steal, borrow, get part-time jobs.

Goto your local library and get a copy of the Russian film 'Andrei Rublev'. Film is divided into 7 loosely related chapters. Skip to last chapter(1hr long) called 'The Bell'
That young bellmaker in the film will show you how to become a filmmaker.
 
Hmm, this makes perfectly good sense, and I'll definitely have a look at both Sidney Lumit and Andrei Rublev.
But, since so many people say that I should go to filmschool, this makes me unsure again.

Personally, I think Im capable to read my way to filmmaking, because I'm so eager to do this. But, as many others said; There's things I didn't know I needed. Or, it gives me a network.
As you said, it's basically all about working with new people, and connecting. Before you know it, you've got a job. But, once again, I'm unsure.

Thank you for such a great answer by the way!
I'll see how much money I have in the end, how much I know in two years, and how many people I know!

Thanks,
Jarand
 
Don't forget the other benefit of tertiary education - you get to expand your horizons quickly with a broad group of people, shake off your teenage experiences and reinvent yourself (in the grown up world the cool kids and bullies quickly discover that their day in the sun is over, their victims inherit the earth), torid relationships with others in the same boat, a bit of booze into the mix and some big parties.

Of course its a double edged sword if you overindulge (as I did) but it's a fast track to life experience - without which you can't tell good stories. Cultivate your own experiences, be social and borrow liberally from the experiences of others. Do things with people, because stories are about people. Try to hang out with people from as many different socio-political backgrounds as possible. Try to understand where they come from, what makes them tick. A lot of foreign students at uni, you can experience some of the world without leaving home - use that. If you want keep a journal to record interesting things you learn which you can use later. Formal education isn't even half of what you learn at a university.

The experience of the next 10 years of your life is going to define the rest of your life. DO throw yourself headlong into this career path but don't enter a closed world, expand your horizons and don't blinker yourself. Once you have some life experience, some scars on your soul and some credentials, then feel free to put the blinkers on. If this remains your passion you have at least 50 years of filmmaking ahead of you. I rushed headlong into it at roughly the same age as you and got clotheslined by life at the first hurdle. Now almost twenty years later, technology has reached the point I've been able to pick up where I left off and I remember everything I need to. The lesson here is that you get more than one bite at the apple so don't lose hope if life gets in the way.

Dream big and shoot for the moon but don't get disheartened if it takes a little longer than you thought. Your goals will change, some you'll achieve. Sometimes success will disappoint. You will find satisfaction down paths you said you'd never travel. For now, make personal films and think about the audience later. You have plenty of time and will learn more this way. Even if they suck they will mark a special point in your life and always hold meaning to you. Whoa, I got a little preachy for a moment there but I wish someone had said this to me back then (actually they probably did but I wasn't listening!)
 
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