Will I benefit from filmschool?

As someone who has just applied to various film schools I'd say do it. I have no idea where you live but personally I've always had a hard time finding like minded people to work with in high school. Therefore, film school provides me with a place to better my craft and work hands on making films. I started a thread on hear LIKE YOU two years ago asking the exact same question and received mixed responses as well. In reality there is no right or wrong answer. Many work in the industry with and without film degrees. Your passion will drive you and will be your guide. No one is the same. I wanted a school where you worked on films first year and that's where I applied.

The main four schools I applied to were Emerson, UNCSA, Ithaca, Temple and Point Park. Perhaps check out Chapman. Also AFI is only a master degree program.
 
Wow, thank you so much for such a great answer!
This helped a bunch!

An that quote about the bullies; Love it.
But, i have to say, if I write for an audience now, I will most likely bring this with me and therefore (hopefully) be better at entertaining an audience :)
Already doing some parts of what you said; Writing down how people react to this and that etc. Really fun, and helps a lot in screenwriting!

So thank you. I'm not sure yet, but it seems, if I've got the financial resources, i will go to filmschool.
This seems like such a fun life, even though I most likely have to spend a few years in poverty, I love telling stories with film and will continue doing so as long as i don't starve ;)
Wish me luck!


Thanks,
Jarand
 
Zxander34 said:
As someone who has just applied to various film schools I'd say do it. I have no idea where you live but personally I've always had a hard time finding like minded people to work with in high school. Therefore, film school provides me with a place to better my craft and work hands on making films. I started a thread on hear LIKE YOU two years ago asking the exact same question and received mixed responses as well. In reality there is no right or wrong answer. Many work in the industry with and without film degrees. Your passion will drive you and will be your guide. No one is the same. I wanted a school where you worked on films first year and that's where I applied.

The main four schools I applied to were Emerson, UNCSA, Ithaca, Temple and Point Park. Perhaps check out Chapman. Also AFI is only a master degree program.
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I think I will go to a filmschool ;)
Just don't know which one yet.
What do you mean AFI is only master degree?

Thinking about going to UCLA, or AFI, to learn the mainstream hollywood way to make a film, and then break that into pieces.

Anyway, this is what I love. And this is what I cant live without. In one way or the other, I am going to live like this! ;)
 
I'd also recommend FSU for the networking advantages. A huge number of people seem to come from that school and they are always helping each other get jobs here.
 
I'll be honest, which I think is what you want:

Jardoss said:
As a 16 year old, I feel I master the basics of storytelling and film to be at my age. (writing a 90 minute feature to be shot with RED ONE at the moment. Managed to get my hands on 7-10 000$).
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I'm at NYU's undergraduate film program. I have several friends who shot features on fancy dancy cameras like the RED or 16mm while in high school, like you are trying. Some with higher budgets than yours has, too.

Look, here's the thing: Nobody cares if you made a feature unless that feature is amazing. And, perhaps more importantly: no admission committee is going to watch your feature. I don't even think they'll read your application if it has a 90 minute film in it.

That $10,000 would go MUCH farther on a short film for several reasons: first, you could spend more on less. Rather than stretching the money over 90 minutes, spend it on 5 or 10 only. You might end up with a great short film as opposed to a good feature. Second, short films are much, much more useful at your age. Film schools will actually watch it, for one thing, and showing off your talents by shopping a short film around is much easier than trying to get people to watch a feature film. Most people don't have time for all the big-budget, critically acclaimed features out there much less a basically no-budget indie thing from an unknown 16 year-old.

That doesn't mean you have to forget your feature-film ambitions or throw away the script you're currently writing. Film schools would love to see that you've written a feature - they just don't want to watch it. Write it, make it amazing, but hold off on the shooting of it until you can truly do it justice. And no, you can't do it justice as a 16 year-old - no matter how brilliant you are. I don't know of any famous director who made a feature at 16 that counted as more than a "learning experience". Even Robert Rodriguez, the poster-child of brilliant directors making it on their own, got noticed because of a short film he made when he was 22 ("Bedhead") before attempting any features. Unless you think you're better than the most brilliant directors in history, I'd suggest learning from their lives and focusing on something you can truly excel at: short films.

That isn't because you're not talented enough (you may very well be), but because you haven't had the life experiences or matured enough. You may think you have, but everyone thinks they have when they're 16.

Jardoss said:
I want to know more about filmmaking, but feel I am able to simply read my way to the same knowledge, or analyze enough?
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You can't "read your way to the same knowledge" you'd get by going to film school or making movies. Film school is not a place where they sit you down in a classroom and dictate the rules of good filmmaking to you. There are experiences you get there that no book could possibly match... And not all of them have to do with film, by the way. There's more to life than just movies.

Jardoss said:
Which school would grant me this wish?
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Any of the top film schools will offer you whatever you want. Don't get focused on "Hollywood" vs. "Independent." That's a meaningless distinction nowadays among film schools (which professor you take has more to do with this than the whole school). USC and NYU are both good enough and big enough to offer everything. As for UCLA: be aware that you can't apply to the film program until you're a sophomore there. You'd have to go to normal school for two years before even finding out if you can get into their film program. I have a friend here at NYU who transferred from UCLA to NYU Film as a sophomore because he didn't want to wait. And I believe you can't apply to AFI until you're 21 anyway.

In summary: don't make features yet, make shorts. They'll be better and more useful. Apply to every film school you possibly can (what do you have to lose by applying to them all?) and get as many "life experiences" between now and then as possible.

P.S. Yes, I think film school is necessary these days. Besides, it's only 4 years and you'll be a much more well-rounded person afterwards regardless of what you did with film.

P.P.S. GET GOOD GRADES BECAUSE NOBODY WILL ACCEPT YOU WITH BAD GRADES NO MATTER HOW KICK-ASS YOUR FILMS ARE
 
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Wow that was a slight moodkiller.
Once again, I'm only 16. By making my own feature, I learn so much more than making a short (even though it may not be as good as I want.). Consider this 6months of school in a way.
Of course, I know what you mean, but once again; I'm 16. I've got a few years on me to make shorts that I'll actually show the schools. I've discovered that I learn more, the more I do. And having a big project, will grant me more knowledge in my opinion. (again, this is me, not everybody).

You seem to be very sure about film and filmschool. Unlike the others, you say: YOU HAVE TO, OR YOU'LL HAVE NO CHANCE.
Hmm.
You also say there is no way I'll make a good feature. I get what you mean, but c'mon^^ Maybe i'll make a good one? Who knows? But in my opinion, if you say: "i cant do it, im only 16." Thats gonna stick with you for a long time. So I'll give it a go. And theres no way I'd show filmschool what I made as a 16 year old, of course not. That's why I'm making it now ;)

To me, filmmaking is a passion, which will hopefully turn into a job.
By making what I want, not what I feel I have to, I get better. Don't get me wrong; I LOVE SHORTS! I really love making them, just want a slight variation for a change.

You say I cant read my way to it, while others say it's completely up to me. No idea who to trust here.
To me, film and filmschool seems like a very personal thing. Some people need filmschool, others may not.
And yes, good idea! I'll apply to them all!

Anyway, thank you for a well written answer. Although I do disagree with some of your statements, I do respect your opinions and thank you for an honest answer.
Jarand
 
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to discourage you from your ambitions. Far from it. I think you're clearly very talented and wouldn't accept discouragement from a stranger over the internet anyway.

What I am trying to do is encourage you to focus your ambitions and talents in ways that will reward you the most and give you better opportunities. Ambition is useless if it's wrongly directed. I think you should make as many awesome shorts as you can to show your talent, work on some professional stuff to show you have a professional work ethic, get great grades to show you can excel in multiple areas, and go to film school to learn everything you possible can.
 
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Jardoss said:
However, the reason I would go to filmschool would be networking, and of course, learn how the pros do it. I read A LOT of books, and learn a huuuge amount. I also have a few connections with some directors, and have some connections within the film industry. I want to know more about filmmaking, but feel I am able to simply read my way to the same knowledge, or analyze enough?
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I think you're making the common mistake of confusing information with knowledge.

Information is what you can pass on to other people, via text or speech. Knowledge is what you get once you've taken that information and turned it into personal experience. You can't ever read or analyze your way to knowledge, because all you have will be information and that's it. But going to film school will give you access to a lot of information not in books and the chance to turn it into knowledge without too great a risk or cost.
 
Jester2138 said:
What I am trying to do is encourage you to focus your ambitions and talents in ways that will reward you the most
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Ahh, well said. Liked that one.
So yeah, thanks :-)

Anyway, I'm gonna finish this feature and make it as good as I possibly can. I NEED to finish this. I WANT to finish this.

@Jawa: Yea, basically what I mean. Guess my English isn't that great haha^^ Sorry for confusing you!
I've heard so many stories about people saying "filmschool is a waste of money and time. Head to the library and get the same out of it for 30$". Even famous directors (Don't get me wrong. These "famous names" don't affect me. Just rumors I've heard.)
 
Jardoss said:
I've heard so many stories about people saying "filmschool is a waste of money and time. Head to the library and get the same out of it for 30$". Even famous directors (Don't get me wrong. These "famous names" don't affect me. Just rumors I've heard.)
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Well there's a widespread beginner's myth that filmschool will somehow "impede your artistic growth as an auteur" or some other nonsense, so you will hear that.

You say you want to do mainstream movies but make them well, right? Like, you want to be Spielberg or Cameron, and not Emerich or Bay, right? The difference is that Spielberg and Cameron can do drama and their stuff is always focused on the character's journey and emotions, while Bay and Emerich cannot do drama and their movies are always focused on the spectacle.

That's it. That's the only real difference that makes Bay's and Emerich's movies worse. When there's an explosion in a Cameron movie, the camera is on the character who's almost blown up, showing his or her expression as you think they're going to die (because the character think he or she is going to die). In a Bay movie, the camera is on the explosion.

Film school will teach you techniques to bring these character moments out. Learning by doing will only let you try things you can think of yourself.

I think filmmaking is a lot like carpentry. There are people who will always say "Hey anyone can make a table. I can make a table. I sit at them every day, and I've seen a ton of different tables. I don't need to go study carpentry to learn how to make one, it'll just take time, cost money and they will teach me a bunch of bullshit ways to make a table like everyone else. My table will only have two legs and it'll look different from any other table ever and it will be unique."
And... well you can make a table with two legs but most likely it won't stand very well, and even if it does, it's still just a table.

Film, like carpentry, is more than just art. It's also a craft, and it requires knowledge, precision and tools. Hell, even going to school and learning what a Mise-en-scène is so you can have that conversation with your DP will one day be worth it.
 
Wow, really really well said. Loved that carpentry metaphor, great! Such a good point!
And yes, as i said, you have a good point. I'm currently at the state where I don't know what to believe, because i haven't seen a specific difference in these two kinds of people: Filmschool people, and those who did it on their own (Cameron even said in an interview that he had read it all in a library O.o). So simply trying to get an understanding, and you made a very good explanation!

But think we misunderstood each other a bit though, almost. I want to learn how to direct like Cameron, the mainstream way, and then break that into pieces and make something which will (hopefully) not be mainstream. Of course, we all think this way, but this won't stop me from trying ;) I hate (no offense) Bay. He directs everything like a music-video: Eyecandy. Spielberg is a genius, and love the way he puts the emotional pressure on the characters. Such an artist. But hey, we all wanna make some original, right? haha^^

Thank you, once again, for a great answer. You all help me loads! Already got new thoughts on my current script ;)
Jarand
 
Jardoss said:
You say I cant read my way to it, while others say it's completely up to me. No idea who to trust here.
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Don't do anything because someone here told you to do it. You've asked for advice, we are giving some. Take on board anything that resonates and reject the rest. Then go ahead and do what you were going to do anyway. Don't pay any attention to who said what. Mistakes are the key to the door of knowledge, you won't get anywhere without making some big ones.

The thing about good advice is that no one ever takes it straight away. All the best advice that has made a difference in my life returned to me when the time was right, years after I received/ignored it. Making a feature is a mistake, it is going to be expensive and you will probably regret it. Odds are you may never finish it. But you will learn a lot (mainly don't make a feature first up!) :happy:

But you are 16, which is to your advantage as well as your disadvantage. You can get out there and do something dumb, go home and still have a meal waiting and somewhere to sleep. A couple of years part time at mcdonalds and you've bounced back. You don't have kids of your own (at least I hope not!), serious relationships, major debts or any real responsibilities. Now is the best time to make the biggest mistakes of your life.

I will say however, school is important. It is hard to go back when responsibility takes over your life so the advice I offer is to seek tertiary education of any sort - film or otherwise. That piece of paper is worth its weight in gold (edit: erm...actually thats about $5...bad turn of phrase), it gives you options. Qualifications are well regarded even in fields where they don't apply. At the end of the day it is proof you can see something through. In fact it would be a waste for you not to pursue further education. You seem like a bright young man and are more literate than a portion of the people on this site (and the vast majority of people on the wider internet).

Actually, I don't see why you can't do both. Most personal projects are filmed on weekends anyway, even those with budgets. Or why the film even has to cost anything if it's to be a learning experience. It will no doubt be acted by friends because your age will likely deny you real actors, even for pay. If you can cover snacks, some cheap costumes and write for locations you have then you're set. People your age will work for pizza and candy!
 
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I like your work (and prefer your "Paradox") and think you have the potential (in talent and drive) to succeed.

But at some point, the conversation (you have with yourself, your family, your academic advisors) has to turn from self-taught vs film school, Spielberg vs Bay, to cost vs reward. So you need to know the cost.

Do you know what film school will cost, and how it will be paid for? Family debt? Selling body organs? Student loans? (some would say the last two are nearly the same).
Do your homework- how much will it cost, how long will it take to pay the debt, how will you pay the debt off?

This is information you need to have to make a well-informed (knowledgeable) decision.

Actually, your English is great- and not making a distinction between information and knowledge isn't that bad, but I'm guessing you live in Europe?

You should be aware that in the US, there are private and public schools/universities. Many schools mentioned here are private (USC, NYU), and very expensive. Others (UCLA, FSU) are public, or state, schools, and much less expensive. But you have to be a resident of the state to get in-state tuition rates. I think it's usually 1 year.

But if you find a public school you like, it may be worth it to move to there and work for a year, then enroll- it could save you tens of thousands of dollars.
OTOH, if you find a private school you love, and are accepted, just be sure to know the full costs of going there.

Not much poetry here, just some practicality.

But it will be a special time, in a special place, so make the best of it!
 
Jardoss said:
By making my own feature, I learn so much more than making a short (even though it may not be as good as I want.).
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How on earth can you be sure of that, if you have never made a feature?

And why would you devote yourself to making a film you know will probably be bad just to learn, when you have the opportunity to make a short that would actually be good AND you would learn from it?
 
I just want to say this bit again because it's so often overlooked in these kinds of discussions:

Get good grades.

Every undergraduate film school requires you to first get into the academic general school before they'll accept you. You don't just apply to USC or NYU film schools, you apply to USC and then the USC film school and have to be accepted into both. I have several friends who wanted the top film schools but couldn't get in academically. I have one (actress) friend who tried to get into NYU's acting program three times but, even though the acting school accepted her all three times, couldn't go because she never got into the rest of NYU.

To be honest, there are plenty of people who don't have the talent to be here at NYU film but I don't know anyone who didn't have the grades.
 
@Egg Born Son: Thank you so much for a very well written answer. I learn a lot from that! And of course, these are all advices, not answers ;)
Since Im 16 I can try whatever I want, and still be able to fail again, without starving. Gonna take advantage of that! We're taking some weeks off school as a vacation, because our school "believes" in our film. We also have managed to find some english acting students. So even though I'm 16, I will make this as good as I can with my resources.

@groveChuck: Thank you! I appreciate that, both about the film and my english :) And you've got a point; If I cant pay for it, well.. Then I cant pay for it. Then I'll have to learn it by myself.
And as you mentioned, it does matter what school I apply for, but it doesn't change the fact that Im the one who has to make the best of it. So thanks!

@Jordan Scott Price: I've made a 49minute film, which ended up to me 18 minutes (the Harry Potter film). It had some great scenes, some bad ones, and I got to write a long script for a change. And I loved it! with all my heart, I loved the hectic process of nothing going according to plan ^^ 49 minutes isn't that far from a feature, and taken the fact that that the film wasn't written as a "film" but as a story; visualized, I know that I learnt a lot. I did a whole bunch of mistakes, so I know what not to do next. A director is almost never pleased with his work, i've never been either. The thing is: I believe in my film. I believe it will be good. And since you all tell me its a stupid thing to do, and that it wont be "watchable", ill prove you otherwise. I want to show you, what I can do, when no one believes in me ;) Of course, I love shorts, thats not the point. But this time I wanted to make a feature, simple as that- I have a story I want to tell!

@Jester2138: So true, which totally sucks. Being good in science, shouldn't make you better to make movies haha. But then again, thats how the system works. And we all have to respect that.
No way? So, basically, I cant go to filmschool in 3 years. More like 5? I'll have to take some kind of education, before going to filmschool? oh well, if thats what it takes, ill do it.

This is of course such an ego thing to say, but: I am determined to succeed in filmmaking, one way or the other. So whatever happens, I'll work my soul to death if I have to, to make a good film that thousands of people will enjoy. Thats my plan, and thats whats gonna happen ;)

Once again; Thank you all! You really are some of the nicest persons I've met on the internet, and you help me to convince me that film is what i wanna do-

Thank you, and all the best,
Jarand B. Herdal
 
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