Barry_Green
Moderator
Depends on the refresh rate of the fluos, of course. Older office fluos are slow and nasty; proper modern electronic ballasts will reduce or eliminate any issue.
Will EX-1 be leaps and bounds better than HVX?
- Thread starter Morpheus_23
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I'm more concerned about the post production workflow than I am with artifacts at this point. So far exactly which NLE will be supporting the 35mbps mode on the EX? How will I be editing the stuff I got off the express card? I know that Adobe has taken a "wait and see" attitude toward this camera, which is bad because I use Premiere, but has FCP or Vegas announced support for it yet?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Most new formats take a while before the editors are up to speed. I would expect Vegas to support it on launch day.
I believe you can use the conversion tool to work in FCP now, can't you?
I believe you can use the conversion tool to work in FCP now, can't you?
Steve Shovlar
DVXuser Sponsor
Too much " I am in the Panasonic camp and will dis anything Sony produce" on here to get a fair balance on the EX1. Mind you it is the DVX forum so not suprising!
Barry you are very well respected on here, and rightly so as most take what you say as gospel. 99% of the time it's spot on, but reading through the threads about the EX1 every one of your posts comes across as trying to dismiss it as rubbish. Is it your job to get everyone to have doubts about the EX1 and not order it?
Half inch chips, brilliant low light images ( from what has been shown so far online) an excellent lens, full 1080 x 1920, progressive, and 4:2:2 SDI out. Add to that Sony build and it's going to sell like hotcakes.
I am not in any camp and am proud of it. If Panasonic brings out a Sony killer I will buy it.I own a HVX200 and am reasonably happy with it. Poor low light grainy image capablities are a continuous problem for me though and if the Sony allieviates that I will buy one at the start of the next tax year (where in the UK new tax laws for 2008 allow you to lay all 100% of the price of the camera back against tax for that year) It is slightly narrow minded to be in one camp and not the other.
The only worry is needing 32 Gb cards and support in FCP (which should be sorted by then)
Be happy no matter what company brings out a camera if it is better than the opposition. It's all good for us.
Barry you are very well respected on here, and rightly so as most take what you say as gospel. 99% of the time it's spot on, but reading through the threads about the EX1 every one of your posts comes across as trying to dismiss it as rubbish. Is it your job to get everyone to have doubts about the EX1 and not order it?
Half inch chips, brilliant low light images ( from what has been shown so far online) an excellent lens, full 1080 x 1920, progressive, and 4:2:2 SDI out. Add to that Sony build and it's going to sell like hotcakes.
I am not in any camp and am proud of it. If Panasonic brings out a Sony killer I will buy it.I own a HVX200 and am reasonably happy with it. Poor low light grainy image capablities are a continuous problem for me though and if the Sony allieviates that I will buy one at the start of the next tax year (where in the UK new tax laws for 2008 allow you to lay all 100% of the price of the camera back against tax for that year) It is slightly narrow minded to be in one camp and not the other.
The only worry is needing 32 Gb cards and support in FCP (which should be sorted by then)
Be happy no matter what company brings out a camera if it is better than the opposition. It's all good for us.
Well I think thats to be expected and fairly resonable and I am not being snide here. Its just that I can see why someone who invests their hard earned $ in X may not want Y to be better. (For the record I dont personally own a HVX - my personal 1/3 inch ccd cam is a Canon XH A1 though 2/3 inch Ive switched from Sony and gone HPX).
But to me it certainly looks like the EX is going to be a great little cam.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Buy whatever you want. Just know what you're getting. That's all I've said.
Look at the poopstorm that erupted over the HV20's wobble issue... people got all bent out of shape over that. The EX1 also wobbles -- will people be upset? Will we see pages and pages of complaints about it here and elsewhere? probably. Wouldn't you want to know about it before you sunk $7,000 into it? If you go into a transaction like that with proper information, you're much better able to make the decision over whether this product is right for you.
Look, every camera goes through four phases:
1) it's announced, and people think it's the greatest thing in the history of the universe, and the hype builds and builds
Then, a month later,
2) they get it, and discover (horror of horrors!) that it has a FLAW. Something awful. With the HVX it was the dreaded "noise", with the Canons it was the unbearable chromatic aberrations, with the JVC it was the apocalyptic Split Screen Effect, and with the HV20 it was the unforgivable "wobble". People scream, they start threads, they threaten class action lawsuits.
Then, two months later:
3) the hysteria settles down and people get to work and start turning out good work with all these products. They learn that yes there's a flaw in everything, there's always a compromise, and nothing's perfect. They work around it.
Then, phase 4 kicks in:
4) "Did you see the footage Macgregor shot on that camera? Amazing!"
I'm pointing out the already-identifiable flaws due to CMOS sensors and user reports. If you don't want to hear about that, and want to stay warmly snuggled up in phase 1, fine -- stay that way. But the sooner we get past this and onto phase 3, the better off everyone will be.
Look at the poopstorm that erupted over the HV20's wobble issue... people got all bent out of shape over that. The EX1 also wobbles -- will people be upset? Will we see pages and pages of complaints about it here and elsewhere? probably. Wouldn't you want to know about it before you sunk $7,000 into it? If you go into a transaction like that with proper information, you're much better able to make the decision over whether this product is right for you.
Look, every camera goes through four phases:
1) it's announced, and people think it's the greatest thing in the history of the universe, and the hype builds and builds
Then, a month later,
2) they get it, and discover (horror of horrors!) that it has a FLAW. Something awful. With the HVX it was the dreaded "noise", with the Canons it was the unbearable chromatic aberrations, with the JVC it was the apocalyptic Split Screen Effect, and with the HV20 it was the unforgivable "wobble". People scream, they start threads, they threaten class action lawsuits.
Then, two months later:
3) the hysteria settles down and people get to work and start turning out good work with all these products. They learn that yes there's a flaw in everything, there's always a compromise, and nothing's perfect. They work around it.
Then, phase 4 kicks in:
4) "Did you see the footage Macgregor shot on that camera? Amazing!"
I'm pointing out the already-identifiable flaws due to CMOS sensors and user reports. If you don't want to hear about that, and want to stay warmly snuggled up in phase 1, fine -- stay that way. But the sooner we get past this and onto phase 3, the better off everyone will be.
Barry isn't anymore biased than anyone else. Nigel is wearing a Sony T-shirt, Barry sells HVX books and DVD's.
These folks are what helps the rest of us "cipher" the data into something we can apply to ourselves. They love the "camp" they are in and feel compelled thru both debate and product testing to prove that the equipment they believe in and have invested in is top notch.
Don't expect one or the other to be unbiased. It isn't possible. That's like a dad saying he is unbiased about his son's success. Bologne. Barry is biased. Nigel is biased. Their biases may change based on their next selection of equipment, but they are biased none the less. But then again... so are the rest of us.
There is always one newly released camera that knocks our socks off. Myabe it is the hype, the images, the price, whatever. When we latch on to it, the bias is created. We will defend it because if I like it, you have to like it, or you are attacking my knowledge, understanding or something personal.
I am thankful for passionate debate, and commitment to choice. I think we need more of it.
For guys and gals who aren't in quite so deep, we need to be able to take the opinions and data that each "camp" provides and use it to help us make informed decisions.
Barry will find the flaw in products that are not HVX. Like it or not, what he notices as issues with the XDCAM-EX are probably going to be issues. Go to a non DVX site, one that is more "pro-Sony", and you will read about the noise, P2 issues, etc., with the HVX line that are highlighted by those that are devoted to a Sony product.
That's reality. I like it. I won't put down someone for being passionately committed to "educating" me. I will, however, recognize and respect the position they are coming from.
Great thread.
Stevet
Veteran
Well put.
Once again, it's all about picking your poison.
IMHO, the almost never seen rolling shutter issue is FAR less an issue than low light sensiitivty and noise. This shouts out video more than anything.
The EX1 is going to offer crystal clean 1080P. I'm also looking forward to 1080 30P.
Steve:
I believe that is what everybody is saying. It is "going to OFFER."
Whether it will indeed PRODUCE is what Barry and others are responding to.
Get the cam, do the tests and report back.
The HVX200 when through the same "fleshing out" process.
Remember, among other things, the "Texas Shootout?"
Just curious . . .
Why is Barry the only one who's ever accused of bias around here with such tiresome regularity?
We have people who post all the time and regularly tout the products of certain companies, but it's only Barry who gets the tag.
People use what they like. Certain companies seem to do better at things which people find important, and so they tend to like the products put out by those companies . . . not because they like the companies themselves, necessarily, but because that company tends to do the thing they like better than the others.
Sony cameras give fantastic images, if you like that flavor of image. The same can be said for Panasonic and Canon and JVC.
So, of course, people who like a particular "feel" to an image are going to gravitate toward the company which makes the cameras which produce that feel.
And, getting under the hood, there are many ways to implement the creation and storage of those images, which all have advantages and disadvantages. Again, people gravitate toward the processes which make most sense for them. And if it's coupled with the image they like the most, then they're really, really happy.
There's really nothing more sinister than that going on. And everyone does it.
You can be "brand agnostic" and STILL end up using primarily the products of a single brand, if they're the ones who happen to give you what you want on a consistent basis.
Like I said, everyone does it to some degree. And there are those who are actually very brand-loyal and vocal about it. But Barry really seems to be the only one who gets called a "shill," or worse. And it's not just here, it's in a lot of places.
Not sure why that is.
Why is Barry the only one who's ever accused of bias around here with such tiresome regularity?
We have people who post all the time and regularly tout the products of certain companies, but it's only Barry who gets the tag.
People use what they like. Certain companies seem to do better at things which people find important, and so they tend to like the products put out by those companies . . . not because they like the companies themselves, necessarily, but because that company tends to do the thing they like better than the others.
Sony cameras give fantastic images, if you like that flavor of image. The same can be said for Panasonic and Canon and JVC.
So, of course, people who like a particular "feel" to an image are going to gravitate toward the company which makes the cameras which produce that feel.
And, getting under the hood, there are many ways to implement the creation and storage of those images, which all have advantages and disadvantages. Again, people gravitate toward the processes which make most sense for them. And if it's coupled with the image they like the most, then they're really, really happy.
There's really nothing more sinister than that going on. And everyone does it.
You can be "brand agnostic" and STILL end up using primarily the products of a single brand, if they're the ones who happen to give you what you want on a consistent basis.
Like I said, everyone does it to some degree. And there are those who are actually very brand-loyal and vocal about it. But Barry really seems to be the only one who gets called a "shill," or worse. And it's not just here, it's in a lot of places.
Not sure why that is.
Morpheus_23
Active member
First, that's not how this thread started. With me, every camera has a chance of giving me the features and picture quality I'm looking for. And I'm picky. And few have suceeded. I've cycled through many of them. So I'm not in any camp.
I chose the HVX again because, as I've said before, it does evrything. It may not do them all better but it does everything. And I don't believe that the EX1 will be "significantly" better in image quality if at all. The features of the EX1 does not make it a HVX killer, or a XHA1 killer for that matter. However, many believe the EX1 to be exactly that and that's fine.
Second, I'm glad that Barry took time to read this thread and shed light on issues that will impact many in a week or so when the EX1 and it's wobble are delivered.
Stevet
Veteran
I would definately say the EX1 will not be an HVX200 killer, that's for sure.
But, let's face it, things only get better. They got better when the HVX200 camera was released, as I'm sure Panny's replacement will be a step up from that.
It just happens, Sony waited it out and is releasing quite the package. Some may agree, some may not. There's a good chance most will disagree on this forum.
But, let's face it, things only get better. They got better when the HVX200 camera was released, as I'm sure Panny's replacement will be a step up from that.
It just happens, Sony waited it out and is releasing quite the package. Some may agree, some may not. There's a good chance most will disagree on this forum.
And so does Barry. I guess it never ends.
Barry is treasure to the profession and this board and others. I respect his opinion.
But as an advocate and sometimes a reviewer, it appropriate to question anybody's objectivity. We all have built in biases, and reviewers struggle with that issue.
That's the nature of the beast, and I don't believe that Barry thinks otherwise.
Questioning objectivity isn't the same as questioning integrity. On that count, I believe Mr. Green is among the best for integrity and professionalism.
But as an advocate and sometimes a reviewer, it appropriate to question anybody's objectivity. We all have built in biases, and reviewers struggle with that issue.
That's the nature of the beast, and I don't believe that Barry thinks otherwise.
Questioning objectivity isn't the same as questioning integrity. On that count, I believe Mr. Green is among the best for integrity and professionalism.
That's totally fair. But the line between questioning objectivity and questioning integrity gets crossed an awful lot.
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