Why would you shoot in 24p mode?

MrPolarBare

MrPolarBare

Well-known member
I am not understanding why someone would shoot something in 24P mode instead of 24Pn mode. What is the purpose of 24P mode? It takes up more storage space, and it adds the whole 3:2 pull down into the mix. What am I not getting here?
 
It streams out the firewire port. If you're recording on a FireStore, or a computer NLE, or a DVCPRO-HD tape deck then you'd want the "over 60" mode.
 
In addition:
I guess if you had more source material at 29.97 then you would make a decision to make all your sources 29.97, which would mean shooting 24P which has the 3:2 pull down added to make it compatible with 29.97. Otherwise I would prefer a true 23.976 edit.
 
HVXguy said:
But does that create a 23.976 file that you can edit with your 24nP footage???
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It can, yes, if you conform the footage using the frame rate converter.

Remember, people have been shooting with the VariCam for 4+ years now, and it *only* shoots "over 60".
 
Barry_Green said:
It streams out the firewire port. If you're recording on a FireStore, or a computer NLE, or a DVCPRO-HD tape deck then you'd want the "over 60" mode.
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Thanks. This good to know. So unless I am capturing to my laptop, then I will just use the 24Pn.
 
What does the frame rate converter do?
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Strips out duplicate frames and discards them, leaving the active frames.

Or, put another way, it converts a 720/24P "over 60" clip into a 720/24pN clip.
 
otari_99 said:
Please explain "over 60, and under 60".

Thanks.
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I believe it means that you are shooting 24 unique frames over 60 frames. In other words, you are shooting 60fps, but only 24 of them are unique. The frames are duplicated (some frames duplicated 3 times, some 2 times). Your NLE program will recognize this and use what is called a "pulldown" to remove the duplicated frames and have a true 24fps clip. Anyways, a week or so ago, I had no idea what any of this means. But, I think this is how it works. Anyone else want to chime in? How did I do?
 
I understand that FCP does not allow one to use 1080P24 directly, the only way to use 24 frames with 1080 lines under FCP is within 1080i, correct?
 
Endurance_Man said:
I understand that FCP does not allow one to use 1080P24 directly, the only way to use 24 frames with 1080 lines under FCP is within 1080i, correct?
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Currently, there is no way to extract the interlaced frame form the 108024pA stream within Final Cut very easily. Cinema Tools doesn't support it yet either. Look for this option to be coming soon, I'm sure. NAB is right around the corner.

To the original post, a reason to shoot 24p over 60 is that you can retain the 24p look, but remain in a 60p or NTSC compatible environment. If you are shooting/posting for TV some people prefer to use this method as what you see is what you get. if you are doing all of your post in 24p, then you are relying on FCP to do the pulldown for you to get to 60p. Some people would rather work with all of the media that is going to be shown, rather than have 60% of the frames be "made up" by FCP upon layoff to tape. Does this make sense to you? It's a tv workflow as opposed to a film workflow.
 
Jeremy Garchow said:
Currently, there is no way to extract the interlaced frame form the 108024pA stream within Final Cut very easily. Cinema Tools doesn't support it yet either. Look for this option to be coming soon, I'm sure. NAB is right around the corner.
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I found this on DVinfo and thought I would pass it along.

"I think we have a solution. Adam Wilt was very helpful over on the SF Cutters mailing list and provided a useable process.

He said that when you select the F1-only mode in CineTools' Remove 2:3 Pulldown, it effectively does a 2:3:3:2 pulldown removal, not a 2:3 pulldown removal.

Leave the other settings alone.

I tested it with footage from the HVX as well as test clips I made in After Effects. This method with CineTools correctly transfered both even and odd fields, despite being called F1-only. Just to be sure, I compared still frames from the original and the CineTools processed footage using a difference blending mode in Photoshop and they were identical for a set of A,B,C, and D frames from the 2:3:3:2 cadence. No evidence of recompression either.

The one downside is that CineTools produces a file that the Finder shows to be 640x360, but both QT Player and FCP show to be
1920x1080. It's a minor annoyance.

After Effects still treats the file produced by CineTools like it is really 640x360, which makes it unusable there due to pixelation when you scale it up. Fortunately AE's Interpret Footage command does correctly remove 24pA pulldown, so the original 1080i24pA files from the HVX can be used in AE directly without having to use CineTools."

(Information from DVinfo)
 
Here's a question......

Should I shoot and edit in 24p if I need to out put a 29.97 final master (mov file)?

Or will shooting and editing in 24pn then saving a 29.97 file through quicktime or compressor be ok? Are there any Advantages/Disadvantages by using either?
 
Why do you need to provide a 29.97 mov file? WHo are you providing that to? What format are you planning on shooting in? FCP 5.1 will now remove advanced pulldown from the 1080i DVCPRO HD stream upon import to FCP. This makes everything a lot easier.

Jeremy
 
I thought Barry said in a post that the binary release of FCP did support 1080pa, Barry ?
-A
 
So just for my better understanding.... 24p mode is just like F5 on the DVX.

If I wanted to mix footage from a 29.97 source with the HVX on a FCP timeline than I need to shoot in 24p?

Also if I really needed to I could remove the pulldown for a true 24.....


Is therre any quality difference between 24p & 24pn?
I understand the storage size will be different.

Its good to know I have a project and I think it will involve mixing footage from a 30fps camera.
 
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24p ("over 60") mode is basically akin to the default "24p" setting on F5 on the DVX, in that it applies a 2:3 frame pulldown.

Yes you could use it to mix with 29.97 source.

Yes you could remove the pulldown for true 24p.

No there is no quality difference whatsoever between 24p "over 60" and 24pN.
 
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