F3: Why so many F3s for sale?

I got my used F3 for a good price incl. S-log and SxS cards a month before Sony announced the F5/55. If I have known then the F5/55 would be announced I might have waited. But I'm still very pleased with this camera and it will take me further in my job which is the most important aspect. A C300 wouldn't have done that and in a years time or so I might step up to something like the F5 or just keep hanging onto the F3 one more year.

It's a joy to shoot with this camera despite the shortcomings.
 
The F3 is still a great camera and has tons of purpose and high quality left in it that I think feeds most people's appetites. I'd prefer a couple workhorse F3's over shooting DSLR any day of the week. (yes I do shoot DSLR on occasion so I can say that)

It definitely wasn't easy to take a bath on the F3 but I think for what the "upgrade" to the new F brought me it was well worth it. Like Nate says I won't do it again but honestly I feel this new camera has brought me a ton of flexibility along with various quality levels I have been longing for from a "cinema" image quality perspective.
 
I've had some serious bad luck the last 2 years. I jumped off the dslr bandwagon and got an FS100 then just a few months later they came out with the 700. I decided to go 10bit with an F3 so sold my FS100 and got one last march, only to be back in the same boat...everyone will prefer owner operators with f55s and ill be sitting here with my already completely obsolete f3. Fortunately my company gets direct clients who honestly could care less what I shoot with, so I think I'm good for awhile.
 
Richard Allen Crook said:
I've had some serious bad luck the last 2 years. I jumped off the dslr bandwagon and got an FS100 then just a few months later they came out with the 700. I decided to go 10bit with an F3 so sold my FS100 and got one last march, only to be back in the same boat...everyone will prefer owner operators with f55s and ill be sitting here with my already completely obsolete f3. Fortunately my company gets direct clients who honestly could care less what I shoot with, so I think I'm good for awhile.
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Hi Richard,

Please post yur next camera purchase ,...in advance. Any experience you could shar on lens purchases?

Thank you very much

Fury
 
Richard Allen Crook said:
I decided to go 10bit with an F3 so sold my FS100 and got one last march, only to be back in the same boat...everyone will prefer owner operators with f55s and ill be sitting here with my already completely obsolete f3.
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I think its a misnomer for anyone to think they may get hired based on the camera they own.
 
Osslund said:
I got my used F3 for a good price incl. S-log and SxS cards a month before Sony announced the F5/55. If I have known then the F5/55 would be announced I might have waited. But I'm still very pleased with this camera and it will take me further in my job which is the most important aspect. A C300 wouldn't have done that and in a years time or so I might step up to something like the F5 or just keep hanging onto the F3 one more year.

It's a joy to shoot with this camera despite the shortcomings.
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I'm in a similar boat, I bought my F3 last year and it arrived literally the day before the F5(5) announcement. But I got it for a very fair price, that was at the limit of my camera budget anyway so I can't really complain.

The way I saw it was this - I wanted a camera that was 'good enough' for any lower-budget projects that couldn't afford a decent rental package, and for personal projects, and I also wanted a camera that was cheap enough that I could keep it without getting swept up into the relentless cycle of upgrading that people seem caught up in these days; because I believe that with SLOGged F3, Epic, Alexa we've reached a point of diminishing returns for image quality - things will get better, no doubt, but not dramatically.

For me, the price and image quality of a used F3 with SLOG answered all of those needs.

If a production has the budget for it, I'll rent an Alexa, each and every time - it makes prettier pictures. But when the budget isn't there I've got a solution on-hand that hasn't broken the bank, and can deliver the goods image-wise. That's all I wanted and all I needed really. So I can't see myself letting go of the F3 for a long time to come (though I'll almost certainly be making a couple of modifications to improve the ergonomics somewhat).

It's also important to me personally that I'm not just hired for the gear I own. The guys out there doing the work I want to be doing rarely own any camera gear themselves, and that's the sort of situation I'd rather be in (though having good gear at hand for personal projects is always a delight).
 
Grug said:
It's also important to me personally that I'm not just hired for the gear I own. The guys out there doing the work I want to be doing rarely own any camera gear themselves, and that's the sort of situation I'd rather be in (though having good gear at hand for personal projects is always a delight).
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Nobody ever asks me what I shoot on. That's *almost* a red flag for a client, frankly. Depends why they're asking and I pay close attention to why they are. I'm hired for my ability to figure out the best tool for the job. But I'm also trusted not to book my own gear on a job where it's not the best fit.

And second on the "I wish I was on jobs where I didn't have to carry a camera". If you don't, that means you have ACs, prep days, and PAs doing pickups and drops, and I only have that on maybe 1/3rd of my jobs unfortunately. Bleh.
 
petermullett said:
But in any event if I do sell I will not be chasing the next "F" from Sony or any other such S35 camera.
If anything I will step sideways and downwards in format and look for a deal on an Ikonoskop DII, then at least all my idle S16 glass will be working more! That's a fascinating little camera. A Leica M to the FF Canons and Nikon D's in the still camera world. I find that very appealing.
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I seriously looked into an Ikonoscop DII before I jumped on a used F35. Both have their unique workflow, equipment and usage quirks. In the end I decided that I like the larger sensor (and how the image "mojo") more. But that Iknonoscop... intriguing, indeed. But then I don't make a living as a DP or have clients. Thus return on investment, monthly costs, competing in the marketplace, renting my own kit onto a gig, etc.-- these considerations are just not on my list of buying criteria. I'm clearly not the typical customer that these systems are aimed at.

However, I will say that the prices on F3's these days is crazy. I almost jumped on that as well. It will be interesting to see where the F5(5)'s will be in the used market 12-18 mos from now.

-k
 
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What killed the value on the F3's were the F5/F55 plain and simple. It doesn't mean the same thing will happen with F5/F55 in 18 months. Then again you never know..

The F3 came out in late 2010 and just last December 2012 I had two offers on my F3 that was around 78% of the cost of a new one. That's not bad in my books. I expect to pay 20% less for a used camera off retail if its still current. But I declined those offers because I still needed a camera and the New F's were not out yet. I won't disclose what % I ended up getting at the end of February for it.

What also helped artificially deflate the F3 value is the rental house who sold two to three F3's on ebay for between $6200-$6800. Having gone through 2 dozen potential buyers myself before finally selling mine I can tell you that EVERYONE remembers the "low price" they saw but forgets they were rentals, or that they were beaten or possibly repaired, not to mention the number of hours that might have been on them. People also don't know or see what F3's are selling for OUTSIDE of these public sites where prices are disclosed.

It's frustrating and just thinking about what I went through to sell my F3 gets me all riled up.
 
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If this is your profession, then camera upgrades are important where necessary. Perhaps the most contentious debate in recent years has been around the large sensor cameras. It's not my profession, so the F3 is where I stop! If I ever thought my work would be shown in a cinema and I had endless money, then sure I would buy an F5 or F55.

Otherwise, this constant chasing of better cameras is potentially very expensive. It's an addiction that's been going on for decades.
 
Richard Allen Crook said:
I've had some serious bad luck the last 2 years. I jumped off the dslr bandwagon and got an FS100 then just a few months later they came out with the 700. I decided to go 10bit with an F3 so sold my FS100 and got one last march, only to be back in the same boat...everyone will prefer owner operators with f55s and ill be sitting here with my already completely obsolete f3..
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Allow the opinion of someone coming from the opposite position.
Just like in trading stocks, you have to have a buyer to be a seller.
I decided a few years ago, that I would not buy newly released cameras.
Glass maybe. Cameras, No.
What I have found is that last years model (or even the year's before) is now good enough.

So I wait. I wait for all that gear lust, desire and fear that if you don't have the latest and greatest your screwed.
I picked up the F3 for a very good price for Europe. It was new, not a scratch, 0 hours and Sony decided they would honor it with a 2 year guarantee even though it came from a chapter 11 sale.

I could not be more thrilled. This camera doesn't just look good. It looks great. I had the time to really look at the whole market, take in the plus and minus's and decide too, that paying $3200 for the SLOG upgrade was absurd.

The thing is this, how many people think like this?
It's always a buyer's market if you are willing to wait.

In the meantime, make some films.
 
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My guess is that F5 will start to pop up used next year when users step up to the F55. If I would have gotten a F5 now it would lurk in my mind that there's a better camera in the F55.

Producers and directors often asks which camera I'll shoot with and as long as it's either Alexa, Red or F3 it's okay for most jobs. I had a harder time to sell my AF101.
 
yoclay said:
Allow the opinion of someone coming from the opposite position.
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Indeed. Right at the outset I looked at the F3 - its at a pricepoint (new) for my small business for it to be 'a keeper'

The camera had 'keeper' price (well above $10k) but did not have keeper specs
-bbc fail
-no slo mo
-no space to crop or stabilise and still deliver 1080

I mean the F3 is in core technology a $5k 2008(?) EX1 (35mbs,1080 72060p XDcam) for triple EX1 money - a blatant rip off cashing in on those looking for the S35 look

It never had 'keeper' written on it in any way.

And now we see that coming home.

I think it is a wonderful camera BTW - like the EX1 is wonderful too - just the F3 was hugely overpriced out of the gate


I bought an Fs100 - I dont think it is better but I do think it is better value and would not hesitate to pick up a used F3 when the price comes down another 50%
 
keithlango said:
I seriously looked into an Ikonoscop DII before I jumped on a used F35. Both have their unique workflow, equipment and usage quirks. In the end I decided that I like the larger sensor (and how the image "mojo") more. But that Iknonoscop... intriguing, indeed. But then I don't make a living as a DP or have clients. Thus return on investment, monthly costs, competing in the marketplace, renting my own kit onto a gig, etc.-- these considerations are just not on my list of buying criteria. I'm clearly not the typical customer that these systems are aimed at.

However, I will say that the prices on F3's these days is crazy. I almost jumped on that as well. It will be interesting to see where the F5(5)'s will be in the used market 12-18 mos from now.

-k
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Well again I am in the unique, ( maybe ? ), position of having kept all my S16 film gear......And yes I do still use it, not as often as I would like, but it's not rusting away in a closet.
All the S16 glass I still have is a big factor in being attracted to the DII, plus of course the camera's A-Minima like form factor. It has a "purity" about it.
However the DII if I do get one will be a "personal project" camera, I can't see many clients signing off on it or it's post workflow. I believe the F3 could have a good couple of years of earning potential on many gigs, but more and more I'll be happier to have the production rent the camera equipment for the job and just turn up with my light meter and graze the craft service table without worrying about who's handling my camera gear.
 
morgan_moore said:
I bought an Fs100 - I dont think it is better but I do think it is better value and would not hesitate to pick up a used F3 when the price comes down another 50%
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I don't see it that way at all. There is a glut on the market of F3's now simply because the F55 appears to be a truly great camera and owner ops want to trade up. As that excess drys up, and it will shortly, there won't be a ton on the market and prices will go to where they should be in the $10k-$11k range.

The F3 with a recorder still does things a Red camera won't do. It works great in low light, it has less noise, the file size and work flow is more economical, a very organic image and accessories are not anywhere near as proprietary. Oh, you can spend a ton on accesories if you want to, but you can run the camera very well for fairly cheap if study it a bit.

If you're truly indie (and you've realized the limitations of a DSLR) the F3 is going to continue to appeal to you for a long time to come. It's those on the bleeding edge that are dumping F3s and they're going to bleed money. At the same time, the F3 with SLog is going to continue to deliver a very Alexa like image.
 
I knew this was going to happen the moment the F5/55 came out. Yeah, hindsight sure is some clear vision, but it wouldn't be hard to figure out.
The F3 is a very good camera, but it's always been hampered by its internal codec and form factor. Along comes the F5/55 that corrects these limitations, and of course users of F3s are going to want to move to the newer, better cameras. The clients who ask for F3s now will want F5/55s tomorrow.

And the F5/55s are pretty much future proofed, for awhile anyway. They have a great internal codec. 4K may not be in big demand now, but it will be soon enough.
As F5/55s get into more general circulation, I expect the prices of F3s to drop even more dramatically.
 
I once believed in the laws of supply and demand and thought that the F3 used price could come up again after the supply dries up a bit, but more and more I'm not convinced. The more cameras that continue to come out and do better things that people want, the further down the food chain the F3 goes. (whether or not it is "great" or a DSLR killer).
 
To me the 3 offers Nd and cleaner tops than the fs100 - and loses 50p

so what would that trade up be worth?

Something - but not too much

So that gives a clue as what I'd pay for one used

if I had a larger budget I'd be looking for a different cam - probably an f5
 
Richard Allen Crook said:
True, but we all worry about still, don't we?
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Yep. Sure all of us want to get hired for our work, skill, professionalism and good service. But there's still something to be said about being "able" to offer your clients the "latest and greatest" even if in reality you can shoot what they need on a DSLR. Some of "stepping up" your gear is marketing and psychology I admit, but in the end it never hurts you to have something that is "new".
 
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