AccurateFilms
New member
My father keeps insisting that a hold on to my money, but is there any solid reason for a student not to buy something like the DVX100B?
Why shouldn't a student buy a pro camcorder?
- Thread starter AccurateFilms
- Start date
There are two schools of thought here. One is that you can get a smaller camera and focus more on learning framing and camera movement, as well as shoot-to-edit. Then move up to a bigger camera. The other is that you should learn on a camera that has the controls you'll need to know in your career.
I tend to stick with the latter. The problem with the former is that you learn to rely on auto-everything and then have to retrain yourself to use manual controls later.
You would get a lot of good use out of a DVX100b. If you think you might want to go ahead and jump into HD, consider the HMC40. It doesn't have as many externally-located manual controls as the DVX, and it needs more light, but it'll save you a couple hundred dollars... though the XLR converter is advisable.
I tend to stick with the latter. The problem with the former is that you learn to rely on auto-everything and then have to retrain yourself to use manual controls later.
You would get a lot of good use out of a DVX100b. If you think you might want to go ahead and jump into HD, consider the HMC40. It doesn't have as many externally-located manual controls as the DVX, and it needs more light, but it'll save you a couple hundred dollars... though the XLR converter is advisable.
i can agree with both sides of C2V's statement. another reason i encountered when i was in school is the limited resources of the school it self. i think there was 2 or 3 sections of classes with 20 students each sharing between 4 and 6 DV and mini DV cameras, so it made it difficult to get much experience outside the mandatory projects for class.
i'd say if you have the means to get a camera and you're not going to go into debt doing it then by all means go get one. it can help you with your work for school and then when you get out in the real world you already have a camera that you know well.
i'd say if you have the means to get a camera and you're not going to go into debt doing it then by all means go get one. it can help you with your work for school and then when you get out in the real world you already have a camera that you know well.
paulears
Veteran
If you are a real beginner, who doesn't know if it's for you or not, then I understand people buying budget comsumer-cams. However, if you know you want to do it, and produce good results, then the proper tool for any job is never a bad investment - IF - you can afford to lose the money. There's little point having a great camera but no being able to afford a tripod and head to match, and if you have to borrow money, then it can get quite worrying. If, however, you can afford it - it is fine. Look at other expensive hobbies that often become a living. Is it worth buying a Gibson Les Paul or can a cheap copy work for you? I've worked in colleges for a few years and pretty well saw it over and over again. Those that care about what they do buy the best they can afford. Videos, SLRs, Musical Instruments, microphones. In motor vehicle, the keen students had their own well tocked toolboxes - with quality contents, not cheap ones bought in the local superstore. Even in catering, the really keen students had their own knife sets - really good sharp ones, not the dull and blunt ones in the store.
If you are serious about video, then you want a serious tool to do it with.
If you are poor - then sadly, it's a bit different.
If you are serious about video, then you want a serious tool to do it with.
If you are poor - then sadly, it's a bit different.
Everyone has given you solid advice here. Your query made me think of something Mark Twain once said:
"When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."
"When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."
Brickhouse Media
Well-known member
That's an awesome quote.
In his book Stu Maschwitz states the guerilla filmmaker needs a good camera of his or her own. You are not bound by the schedules or whims of others. When creativity or an opportune moment present themselves you're good to go. I have a musical background and in my mind it's analagous to having your recording setup hooked up and ready to record when you have a good musical idea.
In his book Stu Maschwitz states the guerilla filmmaker needs a good camera of his or her own. You are not bound by the schedules or whims of others. When creativity or an opportune moment present themselves you're good to go. I have a musical background and in my mind it's analagous to having your recording setup hooked up and ready to record when you have a good musical idea.
Jason Stewart
Member
Six or seven years ago when I first got serious about video production, I worked an average minimum wage job for years to save up to buy a used dvx-100 from a rental house and get a tripod and basic NLE. Those were the first and last items I purchased using money I earned from a job that wasn't related to video production. After that, all the production gear I got was paid for by jobs using the dvx-100.
For me the toughest part was breaking through the door with the inital purchase, but after that, the gear pays for itself continuously which lets you get more, then pays more, and the cycle conitnues.
Your results may vary as I wasn't just doing films, I was doing whatever jobs came my way, as long as I got paid.
For me the toughest part was breaking through the door with the inital purchase, but after that, the gear pays for itself continuously which lets you get more, then pays more, and the cycle conitnues.
Your results may vary as I wasn't just doing films, I was doing whatever jobs came my way, as long as I got paid.
Nick Walters
Mentholated Member
My first was a VHS....no controls
Second was a VHS-C....no controls
My third was a Canon Optura Xi.....minimal controls
and finally:
HVX-200
I learned alot through the years, and there were manual control camera's in between those, but usually only borrowed for a max of a week or maybe two if I was lucky....and I wish now that I would have just saved up and got a decent camera with manual controls, cause I just never had the time or ability to learn the ins and outs until I had the Optura....that was the point at which I was working around automatic controls, and figuring out ways to make a piece of poo act like a decent camera, and it sucked. Once I finally got the HVX I was in a whole other world! To this day, as my signature says "I learn a new piece of useless information each day"...lol
Seriously, if you don't have a camera that gives you ultimate control over the image, you're just limiting yourself. I've used the DVX and HVX extensively, and I see problems and advantages to them both, but I would never have that knowledge, that ability to work around technical shortcomings, that real world experience, without having the cameras in my hands and non-stop practicing with them.
This said, don't break the bank...if you can't comfortably do it now...then wait.
You need more then just a camera. You need a good tripod and fluid head, at minimum some halogen worklights from the hardware store along with some polystyrene white board(bounce boards), some gels, some sort of way to hold the gels far enough away that they don't melt, at the least a very simple filter holder or matte box on the front of the camera along with some filters(Graduated filters are most important at first)....
Also you need a good NLE(Non Linear Editor)..I suggest the adobe suite on a PC...it'll end up coming in cheaper...you need Photoshop, Premiere, and After Effects. And you need to learn to use these...if not as an expert, at least a rudimentary knowledge, as this helps IMMENSELY when you're filming, as you'll know what things you need to shoot so that in editing the bases are covered.
DVX- $2000
lights- $150
gels - $100
cheap tripods and cheap picture frames to hold gels - $200
good tripod/fluid head -$1000
Adobe Suite - $1000
PC - $1000
filter holder - $150
filters - $150
So that's somewhere in the range of $5750 and that doesn't even include books you should read, video tutorials that can come in handy, misc crap I left out like extra batteries, tapes(both for recording and holding stuff), clothespins, basic tool kit, snacks for your film school actors on set(ALWAYS FEED THE PEOPLE!!!), etc.
So save up some cash, work a job or two....but don't expect to be the next James Cameron if you just have a camera in your hand.
Get a camera if you can....just don't expect that to be your last purchase...keep the faith, borrow stuff from friends, parents, etc....keep writing, keep reading, keep studying...and work work work and practice practice practice
Second was a VHS-C....no controls
My third was a Canon Optura Xi.....minimal controls
and finally:
HVX-200
I learned alot through the years, and there were manual control camera's in between those, but usually only borrowed for a max of a week or maybe two if I was lucky....and I wish now that I would have just saved up and got a decent camera with manual controls, cause I just never had the time or ability to learn the ins and outs until I had the Optura....that was the point at which I was working around automatic controls, and figuring out ways to make a piece of poo act like a decent camera, and it sucked. Once I finally got the HVX I was in a whole other world! To this day, as my signature says "I learn a new piece of useless information each day"...lol
Seriously, if you don't have a camera that gives you ultimate control over the image, you're just limiting yourself. I've used the DVX and HVX extensively, and I see problems and advantages to them both, but I would never have that knowledge, that ability to work around technical shortcomings, that real world experience, without having the cameras in my hands and non-stop practicing with them.
This said, don't break the bank...if you can't comfortably do it now...then wait.
You need more then just a camera. You need a good tripod and fluid head, at minimum some halogen worklights from the hardware store along with some polystyrene white board(bounce boards), some gels, some sort of way to hold the gels far enough away that they don't melt, at the least a very simple filter holder or matte box on the front of the camera along with some filters(Graduated filters are most important at first)....
Also you need a good NLE(Non Linear Editor)..I suggest the adobe suite on a PC...it'll end up coming in cheaper...you need Photoshop, Premiere, and After Effects. And you need to learn to use these...if not as an expert, at least a rudimentary knowledge, as this helps IMMENSELY when you're filming, as you'll know what things you need to shoot so that in editing the bases are covered.
DVX- $2000
lights- $150
gels - $100
cheap tripods and cheap picture frames to hold gels - $200
good tripod/fluid head -$1000
Adobe Suite - $1000
PC - $1000
filter holder - $150
filters - $150
So that's somewhere in the range of $5750 and that doesn't even include books you should read, video tutorials that can come in handy, misc crap I left out like extra batteries, tapes(both for recording and holding stuff), clothespins, basic tool kit, snacks for your film school actors on set(ALWAYS FEED THE PEOPLE!!!), etc.
So save up some cash, work a job or two....but don't expect to be the next James Cameron if you just have a camera in your hand.
Get a camera if you can....just don't expect that to be your last purchase...keep the faith, borrow stuff from friends, parents, etc....keep writing, keep reading, keep studying...and work work work and practice practice practice
NC17z
Well-known member
I totally agree with all of the advice given. If in fact you sell the idea to your father please consider getting a used HVX200. I made more money with that camera in one year than I did with my DVX100b. It sells it self and has more options in regards to file formats you can imagine. At one time I was renting it for $200.00 a day and getting that on a regular basis. SD/DV25/DVCPro50/DVCPROHD100 variable frame rates, down rez to tape, P2,... P2 Prices have dropped substantially in the last year. You'll be livin it man...
You simply did not know how to cook the Optura. All the Canons use the same approach for exposure controls, if you learn how they work you can control all exposure parameters (shutter/aperture/gain). You cannot control gain independently from aperture, but usually you don't need to. A major pain with the consumer Canons is that they forget all the manual exposure settings after you turn them off. Anyway, unlike current crop of consumer Sonys where all you have is just an abstract Exposure control, you can have full or nearly full control on your image with the Canons. They are just clumsy to use.
Nick Walters
Mentholated Member
Trust me, I learned that camera...it was my life....and to this day I still love the images I can produce with it, but my life is so much easier with my HVX or a DVX in my hand.
Back in the day I saw this as THE BEST CAMERA...and it was. decent light performance(as long as it wasn't a dark room), wonderful color, great general "look", the ability to control some manual stuffs, big fat one CCD, low cost....I love it....but I'd rather pour lemon juice into my toenails after I've casually sliced them with razor blades then go back to those days.