Why isn't the F3 more popular?

the F3 has a bit more useable dynamic range.

The red has 13, but the bottom stop is pure noise. The dragon chip is supposed to be far cleaner meaning those stops should be useable.
 
LiamR said:
This is done in a lot of feature films and you'd be very hard pressed to find any differences when actually watching the movie.
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I would not say that this is a regular occurrence in feature films, if you are referring to commercial releases. Again: I'm discussing two primary cameras used for principal photography in the traditional sense of A and B camera, not an additional camera that gathers specialty coverage. Great care is taken to make sure that A and B cameras match so cuts don't jump. There are certainly directors who like to create a pastiche look (Michael Mann comes to mind) but I have rarely heard of a studio feature that deliberately chose different cameras for the primary storytelling with the intention of them matching. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I wouldn't say "a lot".

As far as being hard pressed to see the differences--maybe and maybe not. We all see different things. Certainly cameras are growing closer together and log goes a long way to help strip the manufacturer's signature out of the look of a given camera.

As the F3 goes, last year before 60 fps and s-log could co-exist (before last firmware update) I had to contend with high-speed footage with baked-in picture profile mixing with s-log footage shot within the same scene. It took a ton of work in a DaVinci suite with a top colorist to marry the two. And that's from the same camera. If we had had simultaneous angles from two different cameras, it would have been at least as bad.
 
Timur brings up an excellent topic, and my top complaint with the Red: noise. It is very noisy in comparison to the F3 (which, of course, in near noiseless).
Some fanboys will argue that it's more "filmic" but it's surely easier to add it to a clean image if that's what you want, than removing it when you don't want it.
 
Still wondering why the F3 is not more popular? Just look at the New F coming up thread and see that F3 owners don't understand business. They are all acting like ants around a sugar jar while their investment evaporates with every post on a new toy coming out.
Most of this people don't even make a living with the camera they own. It is just another toy to them. All of that would be fine if it didn't affect the value of my camera.
I think that the F3 is most likely the last camera I ever buy. The way they are popping out new cameras every few month and the cost of renting so low, why buy a camera?
My 2¢
 
I think the New F thread makes it very clear that there are a group of professionals that see Sony as the best for digital cinema (including myself) but are contantly plagued by a company that refuses to stand on a mountaintop and shout to the world when they get a new product that should be touted as one the best. Sony is not taking the successful marketing example that launched recent RED and Canon products, and leaves all us Sony users with products that their clients never heard of.
 
Richard Allen Crook said:
I think the New F thread makes it very clear that there are a group of professionals that see Sony as the best for digital cinema (including myself) but are contantly plagued by a company that refuses to stand on a mountaintop and shout to the world when they get a new product that should be touted as the "best". Sony is not taking the successful marketing example that launched recent RED and Canon products, and leaves all us Sony users with products that their clients never heard of.
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Sony, RED and any corporation will do what is good for their profits. Sony has so many models from consumer to Cinema that any advertising will be defused between all of them. RED only has 2 new cameras and their users are passionate about it.
F3 owners have what is provably the best camera for the money out there and are always complaining. I can tell that a lot of the owner bought a Cinema stile camera for jobs that will be better done with ENG cameras. Then they request it works as an ENG camera.
The only one benefiting from al the requests for new things is Sony that is often introducing new cameras for different niches. They are not being nice when they often introduce new sub F65 cameras. They are just squeezing every penny out of our pockets.
I would do the same. That is business and you are responsible for running your own.
My other 2¢
 
Douglas Villalba said:
Sony, RED and any corporation will do what is good for their profits. Sony has so many models from consumer to Cinema that any advertising will be defused between all of them. RED only has 2 new cameras and their users are passionate about it.
F3 owners have what is provably the best camera for the money out there and are always complaining. I can tell that a lot of the owner bought a Cinema stile camera for jobs that will be better done with ENG cameras. Then they request it works as an ENG camera.
The only one benefiting from al the requests for new things is Sony that is often introducing new cameras for different niches. They are not being nice when they often introduce new sub F65 cameras. They are just squeezing every penny out of our pockets.
I would do the same. That is business and you are responsible for running your own.
My other 2¢
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Doug, I agree and I'm willing to bet that's EXACTLY what's happening. The people who wanted a cinema camera got screwed over the people who didn't need the F3 camera but are using it for ENG and hence have a louder voice, and more importantly higher profits seen through Sony's eyes.

Sony's answer is multi-purpose. But what I know is I can not afford an "all-in-one" wonder cam like the next generation F3 which will attempt to solve all problems from many angles. ie. high internal bitrate codec, detachable relocatable VF, 4k, etc..

In the end I bought myself an insurance policy this week for $7100 from RED and we'll see where the path goes.

We sure live in both exciting and frustrating times that's for sure.
 
All I can tell you is that I will use my F3 until there is a technology that really makes a difference.
I have all the accessories I need to use it as a cinema camera. My KiPro Mini is part of my camera. I shoot everything ProRes HQ and color grade with Color. I have a $2,300 Panasonic 8" on camera monitor as well as 21" Panasonic SDI production monitor. I shoot cinema style even before the DSLR and S35 cameras. I don't care to do run and gun or any mode of ENG. That is the reason why I bought the F3.
My F3 was paid with the first job I bought it for. When I get a job that would pay for an F65 then I'll buy it, but it has to be an investment not a Toy I want.
 
starcentral said:
C'mon Doug, you know you wanna... come drink the koolaid with me!

hehehe
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Hehehe
RED had it's time and they are still riding the wave. An Epic I would consider for a job where the client has to have it, and most likely I would rent. The Scarlet I wouldn't consider.
The way I shoot I don't need it even for the big screen. The F3 looks like film on the big screen. If I was doing mostly features I would go F65. Even the Alexa wish is king right now will have to be upgraded soon.

EDIT: If the F65 wold sell $10K to $20K you would have the same people requesting the same things that they ask for the F3. ;-)
 
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Tata Steva said:
????
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Battle Tested RED scarlet's for $7100 this week including side handle and SSD module. (each has 1 minute of use on it, so it's "used".) Only while supplies last.

No Sony F5 4k camera with ext. 4k recorder will ever cost less than $7100, so it made sense to me.
 
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starcentral said:
Battle Tested RED scarlet's for $7100 this week including side handle and SSD module. (each has 1 minute if use on it, so it's "used".) Only while supplies last.
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They have great deals on Battle tested items.
I bought the Battle tested RED 18-85mm and I really think it was a new one. As many have notice, they are not selling the full line of lenses as they use to. As a matter of fact they only have like two lenses, the 18mm and the 300mm. There are rumors that they are developing a new line that covers the 5k sensors.
The Scarlet in my opinion would not give me an edge over the F3. Even event videographers are buying the Scarlet for weddings.
 
Doug you shot the feature on only the 18-85? Did you find there were situations where you really wanted to go over 85mm?
 
starcentral said:
Doug you shot the feature on only the 18-85? Did you find there were situations where you really wanted to go over 85mm?
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I used a Nikon 24mm for the GlideCam shot and the 80-200mm for the across a pool shot. The rest was shot inside a small house with the RED 18-85mm T2.9. I couldn't have shot this feature with the budget I had with primes.
 
Douglas Villalba said:
I used a Nikon 24mm for the GlideCam shot and the 80-200mm for the across a pool shot. The rest was shot inside a small house with the RED 18-85mm T2.9. I couldn't have shot this feature with the budget I had with primes.
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80-200 Nikon? I'm debating between the 80-200 F2.8 or two F2 primes 135mm and 200mm. But the flexibility of a zoom can not be underestimated, especially the ability to frame up without having to move.. serious advantage there. Fixed primes can make that a complete mess.
 
starcentral said:
80-200 Nikon? I'm debating between the 80-200 F2.8 or two F2 primes 135mm and 200mm. But the flexibility of a zoom can not be underestimated, especially the ability to frame up without having to move.. serious advantage there. Fixed primes can make that a complete mess.
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I personally hardly ever use anything over 85mm, so the 80-200 works perfectly, specially since it is super sharp fully open. I like to shoot at f4 when bellow 85mm to keep heads in focus, but over 100mm f2.8 works fine too.
 
starcentral said:
Is your 80-200 a Nikon lens?
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Yes it is. It was the first auto focus Nikon 80-200mm f2,8 push - pull. I bought it about 20 years ago together with the Nikon F4 and I kept it all this time.
Looking back if I had kept wives the way I keep equipment I would be rich by now. ;-)
 
Back to the original post, I've had people that are a little skeptical about the F3, but I find after they log the shots they're sold and are happy to come back for more.
Douglas, is that 18-85 a good workhorse lens? Can you use it handheld? I have the older 18-50 and it's sorta getting stiff and notchy. I've though about a new 17-50 but the extra reach of the 18-85 would be nice...
 
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