Why is there an extra frame on audio track from p2 clips?

hecklenjeckle

hecklenjeckle

Member
i'm new to the HD realm, and certainly new to P2 files. i am working on a MACPRO, ingesting from P2's on an aj-pdc20 using P2CMS, and then importing those files into FCP. it seems that on files smaller than the 4.06 GB clips, when i drag the clips onto my timeline, there is always an extra frame on the audio clips, which must then be trimmed before the next clip can be placed down and synched with its audio, not to mention the video and audio are not linked up when i drag them onto the timeline, regardless of their file size. can anyone explain this? why is this extra frame here and is there a simpler way to bring my clips into the timeline with the video and audio already linked to avoid this situation. the process of linking everything together to watch dallies has become very tedious. especially when i have a hundred some odd clips at the end of one days work. i am still waiting for my hvx200 handbook by barry green to arrive so any helpful hint would be most appreciated.
 
same problem

same problem

I have the same problem, if you find a solution please post it.
thanks,
holyghost
 
hey holy ghost, would it be possible if you relay to me your workflow so that i can compare notes and see if maybe i'm doing something wrong? also to ANYONE ELSE, i do get a Media Performance Warning whenever i open a project that is using HD files. the message says, "The following media files are not optimized for Final Cut Pro. It is highly recommened that you either recapture the media or use the Media Manager to create new copies of the files to improve their performance for multi-stream playback." i'm reading up on this now, but if anyone could explain it to me in laymans terms, i'd appreciate it.
 
Heckle - what exactly is your Mac system and what is your workflow? Just curious...

I tried using P2CMS and haven't been able to get it to work at all for ANY kind of file management or monitoring of P2 files already on my MacBook Pro.
 
hey quicklad, heres my model and hardware and workflow.

Model Name: Mac Pro Processor Name: Dual-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 3 GHz Number Of Processors: 2
Total Number Of Cores: 4 L2 Cache (per processor): 4 MB
Memory: 9 GB Bus Speed: 1.33 GHz

This is tower, not a MacBook Pro, but that shouldnt matter, right? My work flow is stated at the top of this thread, but i'll give you more detail. i shoot onto a P2 card 32GB or 16GB. i remove the card, switch the write protect on the card, put it into my aj-pcd-20, this is a P2 card reader. i then open p2cms, under the source drop down menu i find the NoName drive, ie the P2 card, click on it and wait for the files to upload, i highlite one file, click command 'a' to hightlite all files, and then click ingest. i have never tried to use files that were ingested or imported onto the computer using any software other than P2CMS . then i watch the individual files, name them and put them into a file, keeping the day file that they are organized in by P2CMS. i then open FCP, open my project or create one, go to file, import and import the file. the folder holds all of the clips, when i drag one over to the time line, the four tracks of audio lay on one track, followed by the bmp of the clip and finally the video clip. i then drag the audio files onto the four separate tracks and line them up, and then delete the bmp and drag the video over to sync it with the audio. there is now generally an extra frame on the audio tracks so after they are lined it clip the final frame. at last i can now watch my footage. i don't know if there are any short cuts to this, though i'm sure there are, if anyone has suggestions on where i can trim un-needed steps please let me know. anyways, quicklad, hope this helps.
 
I tried using the workflow with P2CMS that Barry posted in another thread, but that didn't work at all - I believe because of the recent QT upgrade.

All the workflows for Macs I see are for closed loops, or personal projects.

I am trying to figure out the best workflow for a freelancer, I need to deliver the video on a hard drive, i use a Mac as a tool for offloading cards to HDD's - i don't need to import or ingest to FCP.

Right now I use the Dual Systems Adapter (which isn't perfect) in my MBP, write protect the card, then drag and drop the entire contents of a P2 Card to a uniquely named folder on the external drive.

My goal is to have P2CMS work because then I could use it to check the files on the hard drive before I reformat the P2 card.

It does sound like you're working with mxf files in the timeline. Could the extra frame be a product of using mxf in FCP?

When you ingest/import the files into FCP don't they get rewrapped as quicktime files? If not maybe try a a file or two this way and see if you still have the extra frame.
 
ManglerBMX, yes, i was not aware that this is a no-no. but i am far from a novice at this, let alone an expert. i do occasionally get an error when i open a project containing native mxf clips that states...

"The following media files are not optimized for FCP. It is highly recommended that you either recapture the media or use the Media Manager to create new copies of the files to improve their performance for multi-stream playback."

again this whole process is new to me and I am discovering hurdles at every turn. I was waiting for my panasonic rebate book by barry green HVX BOOK, though i think i'll just order it and sell my rebate copy when it arrives as these fellow HVX users say that rebate holders for the $700's worth of aton bauer battery and BarryGreen book will have to be very patient as it takes forever for this rebate to show up.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=123425
i've also purchased a series of dvd's by NoahK of www.CallBoxLive.com but these have not shown up yet and thus far i have been walking around in the dark about this.

quicklad, to answer your question, yes, it could very well be that this extra frame is a by product of using mxf in FCP. When i import in this form into FCP they dont get re-wrapped as quicktime files. regardless of whether they were named by myself or not, they appear in the project as mxf in a file w/ drop down files of CONTENTS, AUDIO, ICON, and VIDEO, the audio holding four tracks, icon holding the bmp and video holding a track of video. how exactly do i wrap them as quicktime files? I'm going to try to use media manager, i looked into it once and it seems like it will duplicate my footage as in modify it, recompress it and store another copy at the same file size, so a 21.9GB original will need 21.9GB of space to be duplicates/modifies/recompressed. i dont know that i need any of this, i'm basically learning as i go. atleast i know that my footage is backed up, safe and working. i'm sorry that i'm not able to help you with your issue. if i come across any info about it i'll post it , though the P2CMS works very straight forward for my 'ingesting.' now if i could only sort out the next issue. the plot thickens...
 
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hey quicklad, here is a thread from barry green about proper P2 offloading for Mac users. Maybe this can help you with your issue. And quite possibly my own. i'm going to follow these steps to the tee and see how it effects my extra frame issue.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=118672

Added Comment: I just found and read your thread. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=119015, clearly you have read the thread above and your comments about the drag and drop certainly seem valid. So yes, quicklad, as I stated I am way behind in this whole deal. It seems that you've been thru far more than I, and are far more knowledgable about the do's and don'ts. Correct me if I'm wrong but what you are hoping for is a means to check your clip once you have put them onto the hard drive thru whatever means, ingesting, drag n dropping, exporting, etc. and what you are getting is P2CMS is unable to play them back with audio and video synced? I would like to know if you can tell me the what the difference is between the Ingest button vs. the file drop down menu and selecting export. The difference that I see is that all of the files are crammed into one CONTENTS file, as in the four audio clips for all 35 shots on a P2 card are crammed into the audio file in the contents file, this makes logging even more difficult. I did find another thread on another site that does seem to clarify our issues. http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/193/869018
maybe this whole issue is a P2CMS flaw, or perhaps in my case a user flaw, and maybe this Raylight is something to think about. It actually was the first software that I discovered when I realized that I needed another piece os software to get my footage onto the computer, but I frowned upon it when I learned that I needed to spend more money. P2CMS was free so I went with it. But I think for myself, I'm clearly missing some step or not understanding the whole picture of the work flow. At any rate, I'm learning...more to come.
 
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as i thought, my problem was user error. i have been importing the clips incorrectly. the clips must be log and transfered in FCP Studio and then they can be brought into the time line as whole clips, with the audio and video connected. the incorrect way is to import the raw mxf files fresh from the ingesting of p2csm or whatever p2 reader you are using.
 
hmm, I am having the same problem when using P2 clips from Firestore, but not from cards. At first I thought it was a video dropout until I saw this thread and looked closely. Haven't figured out my issue, but thanks for pointing out the obvious...I get an extra frame of audio. When I delete it, the clips play seamlessly anyway...but annoying as hell.
 
hey there stingray, i havent read this thread in a while so sorry that i am only reading this 20 days late, but are you saying that you have used the 'log and transfer' feature in FCP to bring in your footage and that you are still having this extra frame problem?
 
hecklenjeckle said:
as i thought, my problem was user error. i have been importing the clips incorrectly. the clips must be log and transfered in FCP Studio and then they can be brought into the time line as whole clips, with the audio and video connected. the incorrect way is to import the raw mxf files fresh from the ingesting of p2csm or whatever p2 reader you are using.
Click to expand...

You need Raylight to work that way with MXF native file in FCP or you log and capture with FCP but need double space for your workflow.
 
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