Why does the HVX aesthetically look so good?

Ian A Swanson

Ian A Swanson

Member
Hey everyone, I am sure elements of this have been covered in multiple posts, but since I wasn't able to find the information that I am looking for condensed, I thought I would just start a new thread.

Just to give you a background of where I am coming from and what I am concerned with aesthetically, I am a 2nd year graduate student at Columbia University in their film program. What I am looking for in an image (regardless of what captures it) is its ability to tell the best story possible. I currently shoot on an XH-A1 with a Letus FE. It creates a nice image to be sure, but when I look at it up against an HVX, it doesn't draw a viewer in the same way.

There is just something about the HVX which manages to closely approximate the feel and response of film. Other HD cameras have sick resolution and can shoot natural environments and sporting events better than anything, but they don't win in the storytelling shoot out.

Just today I spent many hours doing lighting setups and shooting on a EX1. Its a totally great camera and has eye popping resolution... I could go out and shoot Blue Planet 2 with it and it would be perfect... but its alienating if you want the audience to really be drawn in by the characters. Its just too harsh.

In reading other posts, it seems that the 4:2:2 color space is a big issue... and as far as I have heard, color correcting 4:2:2 footage is much better than dealing with 4:2:0. But I guess I wonder if that is the only reason.

When the forums light up with posts of stats suggesting why the HVX might be technically "less than" the EX1, I sometimes wonder if some of those stats are why the HVX has the more aesthetically romantic images than the bigger ENG cameras.

The eye never lies... but I still want to know why its not lying.

Anybody knowledgeable have any thoughts?
 
When I got my HVX I did some testshots. Nothing spectaculair basicly run and gun during my England vacations to get used to the settings and see what the scenefiles do.

When I watched the (25P over 50i) footage I was blown away by the epic and organic look.
Shoot ing with the HVX compared to the EX1 is like listen to a radio with valves compared to a MP3 player.

I can´t say what it is, but I hug my HVX all the time I see the footage.

Frank
 
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Agree. I prefer the look on an HVX over all the low end stuff and even over Sony's F350 for storytelling. It's got the Panasonic Mojo.
 
I think a lot of it too is the 4:2:2 colorspace and the dvxprohd codec, where hdv has large GOP compression and 4:2:0 colorspace. The EX1 looks sharper but it looks a little too sharp sometimes for me.
 
Frank and OP, I know exactly how you feel. I had my HVX on my lap sitting in a Landrover in Africa. I glanced down and was struck by the gorgeous image on the little monitor. It was just the dirty canvas pocket on the back of the seat in front of me. But the way the sunlight played on the folds, the warmth and richness... it was beautiful.
 
I think they just got their Cine-Like color matrix right. (I'm assuming that most of us, being more on the artistic side than your average ENG user, use all of the film like options.)

I actually knock the chroma level down -1 and use the Black Press gamma curve to try to keep the image as clean as possible. I have found that this works well with the Redrock Micro35 and Canon EOS lenses.

Bob
 
Nathan Beaman said:
The resolution of the EX1 is amazing for the price, but the movement looks like pooh pooh IMHO
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I have heard this from 3 different people. I need to rent one and try it out myself. Dean Sensui's jet ski footage looked good and it was all motion but it's hard to tell from a web QT.

Dan
 
The motion looked bad with the Shutter off. I disagree with it looking anything wrong when it's handled properly, however.

I'd love to see examples, because, the short with the LEtus Extreme looks every bit as natural as an HVX to me. Just much more resolution and a lot less noise.
 
The guys over at Redrock did a test with the m2 and ex1... here is the link.

It looks good... but if you sit and do a side by side between it and an HVX with the M2, you can tell the difference in the color space/encoding. Its just simply not as rich. I've seen Philip Blooms stuff, and there is pretty nice color in it, but I still contend that you can feel the difference...

I have wondered what the difference would be projected however, and would be curious to know if the larger resolution of the ex1 ultimately holds up better or not... my guess is that you would still be better off with the HVX.
 
I've seen that short. It's not bad, but it wasn't handled properly. With all due respect, I think they hadn't even learned how to adjust the shutter to a standard 1/48 - 180.0 Degrees. EDIT: And it might not have even been that. Keep in mnind the M2 loses like a stop and a half. They probably had to shoot with the shutter at like 1/24 to get a properly exposed image.

Again, I implore you all to check this short out: http://stargalactic.com/Winter%20Lilacs%20dvx.mov

It looks nothing like what Phil Bloom and the m2 short looks like. And, with the new LEtus EX-1 Achromat it's pretty much a win. That might just be me.

Anyway, if any of you want an HVX200 I'm selling mines. :D Check my sig.
 
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The soup of an image is made up of color , contrast and resolution, Panasonic seems to get it right a lot these days. Ma¥be they don't have as much resolution as the EX but they have the soup well seasoned.
 
Well this is the way i've felt, ive yet to see footage that blows me away from the EX in terms of filmlike and cadence/motion and colour its just faulty imo.

Its sharp, but ruthlessly sharp, and even with adapters and alll the other goodies it lacks the mojo! I'll have you know Kholi ive copyrighted that 'mojo' term my god in the image stakes debate!

It may well come to colour and its visual representation, certainly the word organic applies. Folk imo fall for the numbers game and thats why we see such a need for EX folk to go on and on about this resolution difference...

Buuut come on, we live in a world where right now hvx movies are getting distribution deals - and showings in the cinema - so that argument means nothing - but what looks good means everything. In the narrative drama/film look perspective the hvx comes tops imo.

The digi slr looking montages of blooms promo's etc, really show off its rez and many of the cams visual aspects (albeit graded heavily) but seeing the footage from normal folks... and with moving shots, it just seems to stutter a little. Its subjective and just my opinion - but the HVX does a good all round job, the EX just seems concerned with BANG this very marketable high resolution issue :P
 
I gotta say that I really don't see where the EX-1 falls short in color. The short I posted looks every bit as nice as HVX color without the over saturation flaw that the Panasonic produces. Although that "flaw" is something of a choice by users, it's all to common to have oversaturated footage coming from HVXusers.

I can however see where the HVX falls short in resolution. Say what you want about "Film look" and how it relates to "soft". If youve moved up to HD and you watch HD movies you know that's far from true. I've yet to check out EX-1 Footage on my HD LCD, but I'm pretty sure it blows HVX away. And, Resolution IS important to the film-like process. If it weren't then RED ONE wouldn't exist.

I was "no no" on EX-1 up until I saw WINTER LILACS. The resolution, color rendered and ESPECIALLY the latitude of the EX-1 is incredible. Not to mention it's about half as noisey as the HVX is.

Even if you COULD get better Dynamic Range out of the HVX, it's all lost to noise.
 
Kholi said:
I've seen that short. It's not bad, but it wasn't handled properly. With all due respect, I think they hadn't even learned how to adjust the shutter to a standard 1/48 - 180.0 Degrees. EDIT: And it might not have even been that. Keep in mnind the M2 loses like a stop and a half. They probably had to shoot with the shutter at like 1/24 to get a properly exposed image.

Again, I implore you all to check this short out: http://stargalactic.com/Winter%20Lilacs%20dvx.mov

It looks nothing like what Phil Bloom and the m2 short looks like. And, with the new LEtus EX-1 Achromat it's pretty much a win. That might just be me.

Anyway, if any of you want an HVX200 I'm selling mines. :D Check my sig.
Click to expand...

Where can I find more info on this production? I really enjoyed it, it was really well done.
 
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