Why does it appear different on broadcast

T

thome

Well-known member
I recently shot a video and i cc using a reliable T.V...The color was perfect even after testing on different screens...But on broadcast,the night shots appeared dark..and i was watching it from the same screen i cc'd with.
Is there a way to prevent this?How do you determine how it will look on broadcast?
 
Define "reliable TV."

If you aren't watching on a broadcast monitor that has been properly calibrated, then you aren't watching your signal. No consumer TV is a "reliable" color correction reference.

Consumer (viewer-end) sets are setup to maximize what they receive from broadcast, and from commercially mastered home video (DVD, etc.). They are set up much differently than broadcast monitors.

Broadcasting stations send their programming through all sorts of processing before transmission... proc-amps, limiters, etc. So what you see from air has been altered, and it looks bad because it was originally mastered to look good on a consumer set, which is set up to look good receiving post-processing signals. The processing is designed to catch errors and "correct" them as the signal leaves the station. If you are propoerly set up to color correct, your signal will be at a point where the broadcast processing won't kick in and your signal will look pretty close to what you expect.
 
thanx for your replys.C2v im still new at this,what do you mean by broadcast monitors?do u mean a computer monitor that has been calibrated?or a tv?My computer monitor isnt calibrated thats why i used the tv..after endless serching on the net,all i could find was calibration instructions for NTSC monitors not PAL{thats what i use th tv}



@ Grinner..Iv tried using scopes once before,the one for color finesee but i found it very confusing...what would you recomend?
 
By broadcast monitor, I mean a professional monitor not available at Best Buy. These are generally really expensive, though there are some CRT monitors that are now available for a lot less, like this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...0CGU_TMH_150CGU_15_Inch_Color_Production.html

And grinner makes a great point... the scopes will tell you (almost) everything. Now, I would not use them in lieu of a monitor, but I would not use a monitor in iieu of scopes, either. Use your scopes and monitor together. I always like to have a production monitor in front of me to know that the color representation I see is what I want. Color space in Final Cut Pro is a proxy and is not accurate. Even if the scopes show that your colors are not too saturated, and that your IRE is within limits, the subtleties of color correction that are within those limits really need to be seen on a trustworthy screen.

Here's a good tutorial to get you started on scopes:
http://macmediacast.com/2006/12/final-cut-pro-video-scopes-tutorial/
 
I use tektronix external scopes. You can find em on ebay cheap these days. If you are not using em, you are flying blind and really should not be spitting anything out for broadcast.
More and more we see broadcast NTSC monitors traded for cool flat screens. Absolutly nothing wrong with that in my eyes so long as you are still flyin' by your scopes.
 
actually the LCD screen on the DVX is pretty accurate. i know it's small, but i used it and the DVX's color bars to calibrate a monitor as best i could :)

so before you purchase a production monitor, which is a good thing, use your DVX to get a good idea what your footage looks like because PC monitors and consumer televisions won't.
 
on that note, I have a 20" Sony trinitron broadcast NTSC monitor I'll let go for cheap.
rilly rilly cheap!
PM me if interested.
 
well not arguing, but we weren't talking about in the midst of a shoot :)

so sitting on a desk while in post-production it is quite accurate. i even ran the color bars from my NLE software to just check it and that verified it for me.
 
thome

no problem. when i first got my dvx and transferred the footage to my computer, i saw the colors were seriously washed out upon playback. i thought something had gone wrong. then i looked at my camera because it was still connected and saw the playback on the camera screen and had a huge sigh of relief. plus wouldn't they make the camera with a high level screen? it is a pro-level camera??? at least pro-sumer...i think, i could be wrong, but i think panasonic knows what they are doing :)
 
novelt said:
so sitting on a desk while in post-production it is quite accurate. i even ran the color bars from my NLE software to just check it and that verified it for me.
Click to expand...

Yeh, but if you rotate the screen a millimeter, it gets darker or lighter. At what point is it accurate? If you are directly perpendicular to the screen?
 
Joshua what about when shooting?Dont most people use that very Lcd and get good results?What can you suggest for me because im kind of stuck
 
thome said:
Joshua what about when shooting?Dont most people use that very Lcd and get good results?What can you suggest for me because im kind of stuck
Click to expand...

I'm sure at some given angle it is fairly accurate, I just don't know which that would be, and it doesn't help me when I'm working at weird angles.

The monitor is always good for framing/composition. For setting exposure, you need to use a gray card or some other reliable method, like a monitor with scopes. I'd never trust myself to eyeball the LCD and judge exposure.
 
I have been shooting with my DVX for over 4 years now and have always relied on the LCD screen. For focus and exposure I can get dead on with it. The only times I have had problems are when it is super sunny out but then I just pop over to the EVF.

For color correction (especially for broadcast) I would never even think of using it. Invest in a good production level monitor and you won't be disappointed.
 
joshua

you are seriously funny...so the LCD isn't reliable sitting on a desk? and you have to strain your neck to get a good angle..DUDE :grin: it's one thing to stand by your opinion, but this is just out there. because i have watched every special feature on every DVD i have and i'm sorry, but the camera man only has the viewfinder. and nearly every feature i watched the DP was watching either LCDs or plasma monitors. some fairly large, some fairly average in size, but the point being the screens were sitting at one angle and unless you have some elite model that i don't know about they all tend to change shade depending from what angle you are looking at them, but oddly enough i never saw the DP standing 70 degrees off watching the screen they were always dead-on...call me crazy, but i guess to you that's not normal. :)

oh wait i guess when you are being both the DP and the operator then you are trying to see the monitor and operate the camera. um you don't do that. no wonder you're complaining :)

ah good stuff...because the truth is while you get a good idea of whether the shot is too bright or too dark. the colors can most often be fixed in post. the main priority of the shot, the operator makes sure everything is framed properly and not out of focus. that's really all you need. so the LCD and the viewfinder are fine for that as for everything else you use a good field monitor, but the DP watches that not the camera operator.

then in post although the camera's LCD screen is great..in post it's best to have a production monitor that is calibrated, but if you can't afford a high end production monitor then the camera's screen is just fine because it is factory set to standard levels. again i ran the whole procedure through the camera to be sure and the contrast levels are fine. the colors are fine. the saturation level is fine. the hue and everything else is fine...oh but you're a millimeter off :grin:
 
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Well just like i said before it seems like my lcd is all i got..Will just get used to it and see how best to make it work for me!Thanx
 
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