Why Aren't We Talking More About THIS Camera? Ikonoskop A-cam dII

Chimpel said:
Some answers:

As mentioned in my post you can find target prices for the MeVis Qioptiq lenses in the Ikonoskop Forum http://www.ikonoskop.com/forum/?&categoryID=15&id=&action=listPosts&forumID=8&parentID=304&page=2

Via the HD-SDI out, it's possible to record 10 bit 4:2:2 on for instance a Blackmagic HyperDeck Shuttle. For doing that the camera has 2 white balance settings: daylight & tungsten.

Regarding the RAW - Graded question: you can find examples of frames to download on my site. But the DNG's always need debayering and grading. So the software doing this task is as important as the quality of for instance a lens.

Regarding workflow: I don't consider the Cineform workflow I describe to be a headache. It's rather fast and light in handling. But depends on what you're comparing to.

Regarding data management: Well, we always knew that handling that kind of RAW quality would consider some careful planning at the current technological possibilities. But it'll only get better. At the mean time, ay caramba!

Cheers,
Joachim
http://a-camdii.tumblr.com
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Thanks for the post, and welcome to DVUSER! Like I said earlier, I am nowhere near able to get one of these cameras, but I am very impressed by it. If you don't mind, just a few questions; So, the senor, is it regular 16mm or Super 16 in size? Can regular 16mm lenses cover the full sensor? What exactly is coming out of the SDI port? Using the SDI out, would you be recording the RAW DNG, but to a device like the Hyperdeck Shuttle? Would playback be available from the material recorded to the Hyperdeck Shuttle?

Thanks again.
 
Regarding data management: Well, we always knew that handling that kind of RAW quality would consider some careful planning at the current technological possibilities. But it'll only get better. At the mean time, ay caramba!
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Thanks for posting and for your informative blog. I also am unlikely to buy the camera, but hope to have an opportunity to shoot on it at some point. The main stumbling block that I can see, is that of data offload speed and back up, rather than RAW conversion. I guess if this process can be sped up, with perhaps a faster card reader, then it's going to be a really attractive set up for some shoots.
 
The camera is ISO 250 correct? Good enough for me and most of my shoots, but without acess to a healthy g&E package, it can be difficult to work with indoors. That said its ergonomics are superb.

I love the camera. I met these gentlemen at NAB. Great little guy.
 
Sigh.
Why does this look so good to me?
You always want what you can't have.

Anybody know of one of these in L.A.?
 
i had lost track of this camera, thinking the project had been abandoned because no one was talking about it. I love the concept of this camera!
 
Now that shallow DoF is accessible to anyone, 1080p is in pocket cameras, and low light sensitivity is at an all time high... bit rate and richness of image seem the next foray.
 
TimurCivan said:
The camera is ISO 250 correct? Good enough for me and most of my shoots, but without acess to a healthy g&E package, it can be difficult to work with indoors. That said its ergonomics are superb.

I love the camera. I met these gentlemen at NAB. Great little guy.
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Sensor is rated as 200 ASA (shutter @ 180°)
 
I am buying a A-cam at the beginning of the month. Some major workflow obstacles have been overcome. Firstly, a new card reader will offload 80gig card in about 10-15 mins. this means you can shoot your other card while offloading (thats big) before it was about 60-70 mins.
Chimpel's workflow with cineform raw is pretty incredible if you read up on it. Basically it is a quick conversion to cineform raw- using a command line tool- in batches. he is using this on a mac with parallels (this also reduces the file size dramatically) then using the cineform application -first light- in the background w/ ANY editor (FCP, premiere avid etc..) he can color grade/ tweak using the metadata in REAL TIME. this updates in REAL TIME to your editor. Cineform raw was used with 127 hours and slumdog mill. the images are IMO indistinguishable from the C-DNG's This too will be my approach. I think ikonoskop may have hit a stride and Im thankful for guys like chimpel that have really pioneered through the dark first year giving others the confidence to buy a A-CAM. For me I just fell in love with the motion and colors of the A-cam, something that is really in short supply with most "feature rich" cameras available in its price range. For me the "Holy Grail" is not 5k or super frame rates but a digital camera that delivers the biggest organic, natural feeling images. Outside of a alexa this is it.
 
gonzo_entertainment said:
The hideous way digital handles highlights seems the next big roadblock to overcome.
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You should be able to improve that in exchange for losing some dynamic range by using curves to push up the area of the exposure just below the cutoff such that it causes a more gradual transition... at least in some cases...
 
dustwaterwindfire said:
I am buying a A-cam at the beginning of the month. Some major workflow obstacles have been overcome. Firstly, a new card reader will offload 80gig card in about 10-15 mins. this means you can shoot your other card while offloading (thats big) before it was about 60-70 mins.
Chimpel's workflow with cineform raw is pretty incredible if you read up on it. Basically it is a quick conversion to cineform raw- using a command line tool- in batches. he is using this on a mac with parallels (this also reduces the file size dramatically) then using the cineform application -first light- in the background w/ ANY editor (FCP, premiere avid etc..) he can color grade/ tweak using the metadata in REAL TIME. this updates in REAL TIME to your editor. Cineform raw was used with 127 hours and slumdog mill. the images are IMO indistinguishable from the C-DNG's This too will be my approach. I think ikonoskop may have hit a stride and Im thankful for guys like chimpel that have really pioneered through the dark first year giving others the confidence to buy a A-CAM. For me I just fell in love with the motion and colors of the A-cam, something that is really in short supply with most "feature rich" cameras available in its price range. For me the "Holy Grail" is not 5k or super frame rates but a digital camera that delivers the biggest organic, natural feeling images. Outside of a alexa this is it.
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If I'm not wrong, Cineform Raw doesn't support audio when converting Cinema DNG. I haven't tried yet but apparently Joachim is reporting this in his blog http://a-camdii.tumblr.com/
 
no it does not. Nothing really does except the importer from ikonoskop I believe. if it had batch import that thing would be so much more usable. I guess they are working on it.
 
I think the lack of interest/discussion is mainly down to two things:

- non-35mm-sized sensor
- recording format that requires more time/effort than people want for most shooting scenarios

If something like ProRes was available as a lower-level codec on the camera, I think it'd draw a LOT more attention. Because the image is certainly there, the form-factor is certainly there. It's just that for most shoots (that don't have high-end cinema output in mind) uncompressed files are just too much hassle to deal with. That doesn't mean that people don't want the option (for when absolute quality is paramount), it just means that we want sensible formats for the various types of shoots we have to do.
 
There are some of us who like the 16mm sized format over 35mm for many production situations. Raw motion is still a relatively new format, but with up to date NLE's, increasingly powerful computers and cheap storage the workflow is not as cumbersome as many seem to think.
 
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Grug said:
I think the lack of interest/discussion is mainly down to two things:

- non-35mm-sized sensor
- recording format that requires more time/effort than people want for most shooting scenarios

If something like ProRes was available as a lower-level codec on the camera, I think it'd draw a LOT more attention. Because the image is certainly there, the form-factor is certainly there. It's just that for most shoots (that don't have high-end cinema output in mind) uncompressed files are just too much hassle to deal with. That doesn't mean that people don't want the option (for when absolute quality is paramount), it just means that we want sensible formats for the various types of shoots we have to do.
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I think that effort is relative to what you think is too much work. I shot film for the first 3 years of doing productions and there was soooooo much more work involved. So for me to have something that looks near to real 16mm film in raw format seems like a walk in the park. Compared to my 5d workflow no its not as simple, but you get what you pay for with the 5d. I love its look but im at a point where Im expecting more from my image than filmic out of focus areas. IMO think this is as close to film as you get outside of an Alexa. And with an Alexa you sacrifice size and more money which is pretty huge for small production. No this camera isnt 35mm but I think 16mm is aesthetic choice that can when used properly have more of a visual impact than 35mm (according to ones taste). I think this is a major tool that has been largely overlooked by many film makers by the overhyping of some american camera companies.
 
there's much more to creating a cinematic look than sensor size & depth of field. Writing, lighing & production design are much more important than your sensor size. Shallow depth of field is good for when it works, but it can easily be overused. In the wrong hands, shallow depth of field becomes distracting, especially if you start doing multiple focus pulls within a shot to move the focus between subjects.

Michal Mann chose the Sony F23 (2/3" sensor) for "Public Enemies" because he wanted a little more depth of field. Danny Boyle's last 2 films, "127 Hours" and "Slumdog Millionaire" were both shot with on SI2k (2/3"). And "Citizen Kane" is famous for it's deep depth of field throughout the film.
 
I'm underwhelmed by the digital bolex...I think DSLR's pretty much fill the niche that the bolex did compared to 35mm back in the day. If you want that sensor size, and raw why not just buy an Ikonskop and start shooting tomorrow?

Plus the resolution of the EVF and video outs are pretty terrible.
 
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