Why are we not talking about The Raid: Redemption

Hi,

Since the film is being made outside the US, it is not my place to invite them to NAB. Europe could invite them to IBC, but that will be their decision. My scope for the videos we will be showing at NAB are the videos collected from the Shoot It Share It contest.

Best regards,

Jan
 
thats a shame jan! im pretty proud owner of an af100 after seeing this film.

truly snesor size/DOF whores proven wrong by this. talent still is the key
 
Well it isn't a shame to show the talent that has come forth out of the Shoot It Share It Contest. And there is work there that should make any owner of an AF100 proud to be an owner. And yes, talent in front of the camera and talent behind the camera along with a good story, makes all the difference in the world.

Best,

Jan
 
So, I had a chance to check out The Raid last night, in digital projection at Alamo Drafthouse.

First, let me just say that this is a movie that ANY aspiring action filmmaker needs to see. It really showcases just how inventive and creative filmmakers can maximize the small budget they have.

Now, as to the technical aspects of the film, and how the AF-100 looked on screen. I don't think there was a single person in the theater who thought for a moment that this film didn't belong on the big screen. And it certainly wasn't what people were talking about when they left the theater. I will say that I noticed two or three short segments of the film where noise was a bit of an issue, but sensitivity isn't the AF-100's strongest suit. But it wasn't overly distracting.

What really impressed me was the lack of rolling shutter/jello. Having shot with the AF-100 plenty, I know it's great in this regard, but they really whipped/moved the camera around quite a bit, and I didn't see a single instance of serious rolling shutter.

Bottom line… If you like serious movie ass-kicking with a healthy dose of the ultra-violence, check out The Raid. Good stuff.
 
Saw this film in NYC today, all I can say is WOW!
Owning an AF100 was the motivating factor, I came away with a better confidence of using my camera for things other than interviews. Just using the Fig Rig the DP whipped the camera to and from the action several times within the same scene and it worked great. Would love to know what lenses where used, most of the fight scenes where the DP had to move back and forth really held focus well - is the DP part of our DVX user group?
If you haven't seen this film - it's like Bruce Lee with knifes, guns and video surveillance.
Not a first date movie unless your date likes MMA.
 
So I saw the Raid last night and I have to say I was very impressed. Not only was it a super cool film and really well made in every facet but the AF100 did exceptionally well. I have to admit I have recently been falling out of love with the AF100 primarily due to some shortcomings and the increased competition from Sony and Canon. Even if the other cameras are more expensive they will still be compared to the AF100 add that to the amount of talk online that puts the AF100 down and you can quickly get the impression that the AF100 is not up to the job.

But wow, thats so far from the truth. On the big screen the image was fantastic, and sharp, and the slight amount of noise was far less than so many other films I've seen lately. I managed to pixel peep for a while but soon got caught up in the film. I've been a believer that talent is what counts on set, not gear but I obviously had some gear hang ups as this film has made me really appreciate that no one gives a s*%t what gear was used, they just want to be entertained.

Now Ive been starting on a big project for my company and very seriously considering purchasing a new camera for the job but after seeing this on the big screen I plan to stick to the AF100, cause it works and is proven to work. And if any one was to think that it was the camera that was going to let them down on a project then I would say they must be massively over estimating every other component of their project. or they are already failing.

So Im sticking with the AF100, wish I'd seen this 6 months earlier, would have saved me some anxiety :)
 
Sorry Jan, but I COMPLETELY disagree as well. Your response to this suggestion - brushing it off so quickly, and esp. the reasons given - was very disheartening.

In my opinion, Panasonic needs way more "Look at this amazing feature film playing in theaters that was shot with an AF100" kind of promotion and support of independent filmmakers (you know, the kind of thing Sony or Canon or RED would do...), and fewer little contests. Really.

If I were you I would be ALL OVER films like THE RAID - and anything else of this calibre shot with the AF100.

Panasonic was actually way out in front for a few months there with the AF100 (as a low-cost, large-sensor, removable-lens, advanced-featured, independent filmmaker's DREAM camera for its price point)....but marketing-wise (and support-wise), it was like crickets chirping.

Again, look at the messaging from Canon and Sony w.r.t. their cameras, their positioning, their support of independent filmmakers, Hollywood, episodic TV. Look at how people are talking about the F3, the FS100, the Scarlet, the C300. You just don't see the AF100 included in those same discussions enough....and it should be.

I'm a big fan of Panasonic and esp. the AF100 - but I've been worried for quite some time that Panasonic doesn't seem to see the potential in their own product w.r.t. the filmmaking community (professional, low-budget and amateur). It's like the marketing mindset is stuck in "broadcast" mode. There's such a big world out there beyond broadcast, NAB and IBC.

I mean, look at your two biggest competitors: they both have product lines with "Cine" or "Cinema" RIGHT IN THEIR BRANDING!

I really think Panasonic needs to jump in and start thinking bigger - and thinking more in terms of digital cinema. Bigger presence in filmmaking trade publications, bigger presence in Hollywood, presence at places like Sundance, at SXSW, at TIFF. More presence in online filmmaker and creative communities (vs. just DVXUser).

Basically, less of "look at the great variety of nice video you can shoot with this camera", and more of "Hey independent and low-budget filmmakers and episodic TV creators: we made this great camera for you, and WE'RE HERE FOR YOU".

Or, if that's not the business you're in (competing with the other companies serious about digital filmmaking, who are correctly postitioning themselves), then I think you should get out of the game and just concentrate on broadcast, corporate and event videography etc.

But if you are serious about this game - and are going to continue to develop digital cinema cameras for this niche - then I really think there needs to be a paradigm shift; a shift in ideology, focus, messaging, and support. I'm seeing it from the other companies with camera offerings targeted at this segment, but Panasonic seems to be lagging, or not understanding it.

I'm not trying to beat you up or simply be negative; I'm actually trying to give what I think is good analysis and advice. I WANT to see Panasonic succeed. I WANT to see the AF100's next-generation replacement (and/or higher-end "big brother"). But not if Panasonic doesn't properly position, market and (most importantly) support these cameras - and support the filmmaking community.
 
(And BTW - THE RAID isn't "being made" - it's in theaters right now.

And more importantly, it was a U.S. / Indonesia co-production, with a Welsh director, a U.S. DoP, and a Canadian Executive Producer; so pretty much anyone could say "not my territory, not my place to...".

Or, looking at it the other way 'round, pretty much anyone could embrace it).
 
@Steve R-

I like and agree with a great deal of what you say, but I think that some, if not all of that responsibility is on us to show what we produce with the tools we use. Honestly, the visibility of the other guys is due to their VISIBILITY! There just aren't many people using the camera in a way that allows for the kind of press the other guys get. I agree that there is more of a push (sometimes down our throats) of other technology, but there needs to be examples like The Raid to help solidify not only the validity of the camera as a viable image acquisition tool, but also the impact of the camera on the community as a whole, and that largely comes from the community. Without Laforet, all of the 5d's silknastyness, issues not withstanding, would not have had the impact and ripple effect that it did. Personally, I am glad that there is an example like this movie for those of us who are AF users, and while I think that it's a little late to cannonball, there is a significant splash here, but if there is gonna be any forward movement on the respect front for this system, it'll be us, who should have pushed this thread and others like it and others about this movie, into the double digits and who should be locked in a Kal-if-fee type life or death struggle with various fanboys about this and similar projects.
 
@Pharpsied

the fact is that with the launch of the canon and sony big chip cams/dslrs, the companies PUSH the marketing and get it in the hands of top known filmmakers to make awesome films to get the ball rolling. After which they PUSH those short films as you say it "down our throats" with interviews with the filmmakers,BTS and all sorts of stuff. When has panny done that for the af100? Did the film that Barry, Stephen Mick and the rest of the crew did... the western...get alot of push? I'm asking, because i really dont know, but if it did it certainly wasn't pushed like canon and sony. Even the gh2 (yes yes we all know its "consumer")....but guess what, its kicking canons ass in image quality and panny doesn't even care. Personally i could care less who does what...i have no allegiance to any of them. Whoever comes with a good product will get my $.
 
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It's interesting, I've seen a LOT of Af100 footage, from pro to amateur stuff, short films, commercials etc... and here, they nailed down a look I've never seen with the Af100 before. It really is amazing what lenses can do. Throw PL lenses on an Af100, FS100, RED and they all have a similar cinematic look. Each camera has widely differing capabilities, but as far as the straight up finished look of a production... it's aesthetically every bit as pleasing as RED except for extreme low light stuff. Glass + talent is pretty much everything. How I wish I could afford some nice PL glass.
 
Steve R said:
Sorry Jan, but I COMPLETELY disagree as well. Your response to this suggestion - brushing it off so quickly, and esp. the reasons given - was very disheartening.
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Hi, I didn't dismiss it, although it might have read that way. I just am not in the right place and time with NAB about a week away (NAB starts for me on Thursday next week) and I already have plans. I wasn’t aware that the crew was so multi-national, but I don’t have time to reorganize my entire NAB plans for something I don’t know enough about. I am honoring the people that have entered their films and works in our Shoot it Share it contest. I will not abandon the people that made it to the finals for one film and filmmaker I don't even know how to contact.

Steve R said:
In my opinion, Panasonic needs way more "Look at this amazing feature film playing in theaters that was shot with an AF100" kind of promotion and support of independent filmmakers (you know, the kind of thing Sony or Canon or RED would do...), and fewer little contests. Really.
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No it isn't a little contest, and sorry you feel that way but the work that we gathered out of it is very high caliber work. I will follow up on The Raid story, just as I am following up on another story about a film that debuted at SXSW. Just like we have on other films that we have written about.

Steve R said:
If I were you I would be ALL OVER films like THE RAID - and anything else of this calibre shot with the AF100.
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I am and you will see it being played in our booth. You may not realize that by the time this thread was started our timeline for the NAB show for the AF100 was well under construction. I believe it is being loaded onto a server or P2 card today and being shipped. This plan was hatched back in January. I am not going to disappoint the people that submitted their work in our contest and not show their work. And there is not time to find out and obtain The Raid and have it go through all the clearances. On top of that I just do not have the time and I do not have a person I could hand it off to.

Steve R said:
Panasonic was actually way out in front for a few months there with the AF100 (as a low-cost, large-sensor, removable-lens, advanced-featured, independent filmmaker's DREAM camera for its price point)....but marketing-wise (and support-wise), it was like crickets chirping.
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Perhaps you are not aware of the press releases that go out every week on the AF100, and they are as varied in application and the quality of the work they cover in them is amazing. We did a 42 city tour for the AF100. And in every one of those cities, we discussed the attributes of the AF100, we showed footage that people didn't believe was shot on it, and yes, we chose to use footage that was shot by people just like you, rather that some "name" because we wanted people to believe that the camera could be used to get remarkable results in the hands of just about anybody. Any DP with a NAME should be able to make great pictures with any camera. I would rather talk about and write press releases about my customers that have done something noteworthy with the camera. And there are a lot of them. There are no crickets chirping where I am.

Steve R said:
Again, look at the messaging from Canon and Sony w.r.t. their cameras, their positioning, their support of independent filmmakers, Hollywood, episodic TV. Look at how people are talking about the F3, the FS100, the Scarlet, the C300. You just don't see the AF100 included in those same discussions enough....and it should be.
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Hey we were at Slamdance, right down the street from Sundance as the Official Camera, we were at Cinequest also as a sponsor. Product introductions start the chatter. The FS100 has some chatter but no more than the AF100. The more expensive the camera the more the owner has on the line, and the more they talk about it.

Steve R said:
I'm a big fan of Panasonic and esp. the AF100 - but I've been worried for quite some time that Panasonic doesn't seem to see the potential in their own product w.r.t. the filmmaking community (professional, low-budget and amateur). It's like the marketing mindset is stuck in "broadcast" mode. There's such a big world out there beyond broadcast, NAB and IBC.
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First I have never created an ad to sell the AF100 to the broadcasters and the fact that we are showing it at NAB only means that we recognize a massive opportunity to show it to a large quantity of people and less than 1/3 of the people that show up at NAB are broadcasters. Perhaps you are not reading our ads, looking at the brochures, or reading any of our press releases.

Steve R said:
I really think Panasonic needs to jump in and start thinking bigger - and thinking more in terms of digital cinema. Bigger presence in filmmaking trade publications, bigger presence in Hollywood, presence at places like Sundance, at SXSW, at TIFF. More presence in online filmmaker and creative communities (vs. just DVXUser).
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Well if you look at our brochure for the AF100 the word Cinema or Cinematic appears 10 times. We cannot use that word in the branding of the camera because the folks that have it there have already pulled a Trademark on that usage. If you look at our advertising for the camera, it depicts a Digital Cinema scene.
We already do partake in the festivals. Note that there can only be one camera sponsor at Sundance and that has been sewn up by Sony for the last 15 years that I am aware of, but 4 blocks up the street we were the Official Camera for the Slamdance Film Festival which frankly feels more like the target audience for the AF100 anyhow as these films are in the <$100,000 budget unlike the ones in Sundance. We are sponsors at the Jackson Hole Film Festival and the International Wildlife Film Festival. And in all cases we talk, discuss and support the filmmaking community.

The hardest thing about relying on DVXUser to be the sole marketing of the camera(which in fact it is not) is that the majority of the negativity about the camera was initially born right here with all of its pixel peeping that started right from the get go from its release. Some of the work that I have had to do over the last year is to initiate countermeasures to the initial reports from the inexperienced users. The more experienced guys have always had no complaint. And as an example of the negativity, this film, The Raid, that you want me to overturn my plans at NAB for, already has negative talk about some of the darker scenes being noisy. If I made it an official Best that the AF100 can do, it would be vilified for being noisy in these scenes. Read this thread, it has been mentioned a number of times.

And for the record, I don't know of too many representatives from those other companies that routinely respond here and other places like Creativecow and DVinfo.

Steve R said:
Basically, less of "look at the great variety of nice video you can shoot with this camera", and more of "Hey independent and low-budget filmmakers and episodic TV creators: we made this great camera for you, and WE'RE HERE FOR YOU".
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Why don't you go and read the Press releases that we put out on the AF100. This is exactly what they say. You can find the majority of them on our Facebook page, https://www.facebook.com/panasonicbroadcast And by the way two of the stories on the very first page are stories about films and filmmakers, one of whom happens to be a member of this community. Take a look at the films that I have posted over on my Vimeo page: http://vimeo.com/groups/72874/videos/sort:alphabetic again a lot of films, clips and an assortment of other work, but clearly all supporting and talking about the people that use the camera to success. Or take a look at TheCriticalView where we highlight someone using the AF100 almost twice a week: http://thecriticalview.com/2012/03/mark-kluiszo-puts-all-eyes-on-africa-with-the-ag-af100/

Steve R said:
I'm not trying to beat you up or simply be negative; I'm actually trying to give what I think is good analysis and advice. I WANT to see Panasonic succeed. I WANT to see the AF100's next-generation replacement (and/or higher-end "big brother"). But not if Panasonic doesn't properly position, market and (most importantly) support these cameras - and support the filmmaking community.
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And I am trying not to take this personally but you’r e saying that we are not supporting the filmmaking community when in fact we are and we do, and there are no facts to back up what you are saying. Actually you would be better advised to have looked at the larger scope of all that we do in our marketing effort on this camera before tryng to tell me what we don't do. Our marketing scope is much larger than DVXuser.

Best regards,

Jan
 
I wouldn't confuse ad campaigns featuring films like Joyride, Mobius, or Reverie (-excellent works btw) as constituting a support of the filmmaking community per se. The money paid for those shorts supports the filmmakers who made them- to help sell cameras. Panasonic periodically sends reps to my alma matter Chapman to show them how to use the AF100 cameras that are used by the filmmaking students there.
 
Well, I'm very active in the filmmaking community, and I have been a big time AF100 supporter - and all I can go by is what I see - and what I see is a very large presence by Canon and Sony, and very little by Panasonic. I see a big difference in what I perceive as their "big time, serious presence", and Panasonic's "small time, half-hearted presence". I see a big difference in the quality and commitment of the support infrastructures, websites, utilities, firmware updates etc. etc.

This is, of course, all just my opinion - but I believe it's an informed one.

I really think Panasonic needs to get more serious about digital cinema. Product-wise, and support-wise.

I also think there needs to be an AF100 replacement pretty quick, on the low end - and a "big brother" pretty quick on the high end. Or you're going to get left in the dust, lunch eaten (to mix some metaphors).
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
And for the record, I don't know of too many representatives from those other companies that routinely respond here and other places like Creativecow and DVinfo.
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For the record, much respect for that fact. cause I don't see this happen in any of the other forums I partake in. So thank you for that Jan. Please don't be put off.
 
Wow. Steve, you got off easy. The way your message was written was one of the rudest, most presumptuous, arrogant things I've ever read. You basically told the marketing department they were ... Well, sitting on their hands and doing nothing.

If I was Jan, I probably would have slapped your face.

And then, after she not only responds politely and in depth, you not only don't apologize for being an ass, you double down!

Wow.

Spend some time thinking of how you're coming across here. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. And how YOU say it is patently offensive.
 
EndCredits said:
For the record, much respect for that fact. cause I don't see this happen in any of the other forums I partake in. So thank you for that Jan. Please don't be put off.
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I wish I could find the HPX170 wish list thread, man. Newcomers need to look at that and SEE what happened. NOBODY else manufacturing cameras ever did ANYTHING like that up until Panasonic did it. Nobody had presence amongst users like Panasonic did, nobody.

Now, maybe, and even then I don't see any Canon reps on forums interacting with communities.

Seriously.
 
Steve R said:
Well, I'm very active in the filmmaking community, and I have been a big time AF100 supporter - and all I can go by is what I see - and what I see is a very large presence by Canon and Sony, and very little by Panasonic. I see a big difference in what I perceive as their "big time, serious presence", and Panasonic's "small time, half-hearted presence". I see a big difference in the quality and commitment of the support infrastructures, websites, utilities, firmware updates etc. etc.

This is, of course, all just my opinion - but I believe it's an informed one.

I really think Panasonic needs to get more serious about digital cinema. Product-wise, and support-wise.

I also think there needs to be an AF100 replacement pretty quick, on the low end - and a "big brother" pretty quick on the high end. Or you're going to get left in the dust, lunch eaten (to mix some metaphors).
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Here is what's going wrong all over this place. This is HYPER emotional, and you're directing it at someone who basically put her ear to the community and blatantly pulled from everyone's wishlist what they would like to see in a camera.

Not once, but three times counted now.

You may feel like you're informed, but you are not. And, if you consider your points from being "deeply imbedded" in the independent scene, I dunno WHAT scene you've been hanging around in but clearly not this one.

This attitude will drive off the chance we get to interact freely with Panasonic, it's a shame that this was even allowed to live long enough for Jan to see it, but I'm happy that she took the time to respond and break it down for you.

Man.
 
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