Why are dslr rigs so unjustifiably expensive?
- Thread starter Fellipe
- Start date
- Status
vision_filmz
Carbonite Member
Zacuto had a $1500 rig & Cpm Film Tools sell one for about $700. Who am I to say which one is worth it? All I know is from my own experiences, which everyone failed to comment on. These companies used to buy these led light years ago and sell them for $300, now I can get that same light for $60. There is no difference here other than it is the same object and rebranded. Wait till another company comes along here in the US and can rival the quality of Zacuto. IM more than sure things will change.... Us as film makers on any kind of level should be happy that our support gear is becoming more affordable.
At the end of the day, this topic has been great.... But it's now back to work!!
Meh, if you want, go ahead and pay for Zacuto gear, if you don't want to, don't. No big deal. Some people like the psychological reassurance of having paid a big price, it feels like they bought "quality"... sometimes they really did buy quality, and sometimes they're taken for a ride. Nobody can decide that for you - you have to do your own research.
And more competitors coming to the market is a good thing. No doubt it'll translate into better prices. But be careful to compare apples to apples. Take electronics - somebody mentioned music production studios being taken out by DIY homegear for a fraction of the price. Yep, that'll keep happening... with electronics! That's not necessarily the case with mechanical gear - take the example of lenses... insofar as computer design and computer guided production was involved, it cut the prices somewhat, but not that much - lenses are still expensive and hold their value. You can use a 20 year old lens, but you'd hardly use a 20 year old video camera. So too with this kind of gear - all these cameras the AF100 or FS100, in 5 years, they'll be dinosaurs, and cheaper better cameras will come out... but the lenses you buy today, will still be very good in 5 years.
Now we come to gear like the rigs - there's no electronics involved, so how are they gonna cut prices in the future? Are materials gonna get cheaper? I don't think so - metal and things like that are going UP in price. Design? Good design needs good designers - these will never drop in price. Machining - we already have computer guided manufacturing - not much margin to cut further. So I suspect that prices for rigs may not drop as dramatically as they do for electronics, so you may never see the same situation as home studios displacing professional full scale studios.
That said, competition is good. Sometimes you get what you pay for - they substitute poor quality materials for example, and you can't see that just looking at it, but in one case the rod will snap or bend, and the good quality rod will not. And don't forget fit and finish - they skimp on that as well. Painting it nicely is the least of it - you only find out poor gear when you use it.
Listen, I'm as stupid as the next guy. When I was very poor, I wanted to buy a bike - so I bought one of those $100 no-name bikes - and promptly stripped the gears which seemed to be made from butter... the bike looked great, but was crap quality. I then had to buy another bike, this time paying $400... only I was already $100 in the hole. But I'm stupid, so I didn't learn my lesson, and proceeded to repeat it with tripods for photography. I bought 3 cheap crappy tripods that all didn't work properly, one after the other, first I paid $100, then $400, then $500. Finally I stepped up to the real thing and paid $1000, and have it still with me after 10 years. I should have done that immediately. Instead, by buying crap, I paid in effect $2000 for it. Like I said, I'm stupid.
So these days I'm not as eager to buy a Yugo just because it "looks" like a car and is super cheap. Buy quality - but make sure you do. I am not going to get into whether Zacuto is overpriced or not, I'm just cautioning you not to make the mistakes I made. But I'm sure you are more clever than I am.
And more competitors coming to the market is a good thing. No doubt it'll translate into better prices. But be careful to compare apples to apples. Take electronics - somebody mentioned music production studios being taken out by DIY homegear for a fraction of the price. Yep, that'll keep happening... with electronics! That's not necessarily the case with mechanical gear - take the example of lenses... insofar as computer design and computer guided production was involved, it cut the prices somewhat, but not that much - lenses are still expensive and hold their value. You can use a 20 year old lens, but you'd hardly use a 20 year old video camera. So too with this kind of gear - all these cameras the AF100 or FS100, in 5 years, they'll be dinosaurs, and cheaper better cameras will come out... but the lenses you buy today, will still be very good in 5 years.
Now we come to gear like the rigs - there's no electronics involved, so how are they gonna cut prices in the future? Are materials gonna get cheaper? I don't think so - metal and things like that are going UP in price. Design? Good design needs good designers - these will never drop in price. Machining - we already have computer guided manufacturing - not much margin to cut further. So I suspect that prices for rigs may not drop as dramatically as they do for electronics, so you may never see the same situation as home studios displacing professional full scale studios.
That said, competition is good. Sometimes you get what you pay for - they substitute poor quality materials for example, and you can't see that just looking at it, but in one case the rod will snap or bend, and the good quality rod will not. And don't forget fit and finish - they skimp on that as well. Painting it nicely is the least of it - you only find out poor gear when you use it.
Listen, I'm as stupid as the next guy. When I was very poor, I wanted to buy a bike - so I bought one of those $100 no-name bikes - and promptly stripped the gears which seemed to be made from butter... the bike looked great, but was crap quality. I then had to buy another bike, this time paying $400... only I was already $100 in the hole. But I'm stupid, so I didn't learn my lesson, and proceeded to repeat it with tripods for photography. I bought 3 cheap crappy tripods that all didn't work properly, one after the other, first I paid $100, then $400, then $500. Finally I stepped up to the real thing and paid $1000, and have it still with me after 10 years. I should have done that immediately. Instead, by buying crap, I paid in effect $2000 for it. Like I said, I'm stupid.
So these days I'm not as eager to buy a Yugo just because it "looks" like a car and is super cheap. Buy quality - but make sure you do. I am not going to get into whether Zacuto is overpriced or not, I'm just cautioning you not to make the mistakes I made. But I'm sure you are more clever than I am.
You get exactly what you pay for.
I bought a $300 19mm lens support (shall remain nameless), instead of the $800 arri one. its stripped already. Shoulda bought the Arri.
I bought a $300 19mm lens support (shall remain nameless), instead of the $800 arri one. its stripped already. Shoulda bought the Arri.
If someone's interested here's a 170+ pages thread at cinema 5d about the gini rigs:
http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6582&start=1570&hilit=Korean+Rig
http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6582&start=1570&hilit=Korean+Rig
HansSteinert
Well-known member
A possibility to consider is that as (or if) the DSLR video popularity increases for the average consumer market (which I think it will), perhaps companies like Zacuto will see it as profitable to lower their prices if it means their sales will increase sufficiently.
Something to think about. Might happen a few years from now, or it might not. Just depends if their "niche" audience remains truly a niche and doesn't expand.
Zacuto's products are worth it, though. Even at current prices... although I wouldn't recommend it to people who aren't working professionally.
Something to think about. Might happen a few years from now, or it might not. Just depends if their "niche" audience remains truly a niche and doesn't expand.
Zacuto's products are worth it, though. Even at current prices... although I wouldn't recommend it to people who aren't working professionally.
arniepix
Well-known member
+1!
I would also add that having certain experience and outlook colors your opinion about the price of gear, as well.
And, BTW, you if you can't afford to by, you can always rent when you need it!
Much of consumer perception about price has more to do with widespread acceptance cheap foreign products as the norm and that US customers have had stagnant wages/salaries and salaries for several decades. It costs a lot for the R&D, machining, and use of high quality raw materials to make good gear, especially when it is manufactured in the US or Europe, where a first world standard of living still exists.
My suggestion for people dealing with price shock is to buy the good stuff part by part, as they can afford it. Start with a DSLR base plate, a few well-built 15mm rods in versatile sizes, and a set of hand grips and expand outward from there as finances allow and deals arise. I do at least half of non-tripod my shooting without the full shoulder rig because it's just to inconvenient and cumbersome to haul around when I want some quick footage and not draw attention.
My suggestion for people dealing with price shock is to buy the good stuff part by part, as they can afford it. Start with a DSLR base plate, a few well-built 15mm rods in versatile sizes, and a set of hand grips and expand outward from there as finances allow and deals arise. I do at least half of non-tripod my shooting without the full shoulder rig because it's just to inconvenient and cumbersome to haul around when I want some quick footage and not draw attention.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Actually I was looking for an objective answer
http://www.differencebetween.net/language/difference-between-objective-and-subjective/
You're welcome for the link ^^
William_Robinette
Shallow Member
We're just pissing in the wind now.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
I'll draw you a graph so that you can better understand.
Why don't you just answer my question?
You don't add anything valuable to the discussion, but only write things like: "Don't want, don't buy" or "They're better. period."
You seem like you're totally blinded (buy marketing) and don't have an open minded.
If you don't have anything to add, please don't lose your valuable time here.
You don't add anything valuable to the discussion, but only write things like: "Don't want, don't buy" or "They're better. period."
You seem like you're totally blinded (buy marketing) and don't have an open minded.
If you don't have anything to add, please don't lose your valuable time here.
wgzn
Veteran
we have all answered your question. REPEATEDLY.
people here who have used all manner of rigs have told you that there IS a difference. and to many it IS worth the price difference. to others (who may not be experienced enough pay attention to certain aspects or to care) maybe its not.
again, having used ikan, genus, redrock, and zacuto. i can tell you without doubt there IS a HUGE difference in solidity, materials, machining, repeatability, reliability as well as aesthetics from the lower end to the higher end stuff. is it a matter of working vs not working? no. its a matter of working the way you need it to. and doing it reliably.
maybe that's a neurosis for some of us. and we COULD get by with lower priced stuff. but if the existing price structure fits into our budgets. and makes our work day that much more worry free. im going to continue paying the price.
if youre expecting a scientific or accounting reason to justify the price, youre probably not going to get it here. go interview the manufacturers themselves
: (
people here who have used all manner of rigs have told you that there IS a difference. and to many it IS worth the price difference. to others (who may not be experienced enough pay attention to certain aspects or to care) maybe its not.
again, having used ikan, genus, redrock, and zacuto. i can tell you without doubt there IS a HUGE difference in solidity, materials, machining, repeatability, reliability as well as aesthetics from the lower end to the higher end stuff. is it a matter of working vs not working? no. its a matter of working the way you need it to. and doing it reliably.
maybe that's a neurosis for some of us. and we COULD get by with lower priced stuff. but if the existing price structure fits into our budgets. and makes our work day that much more worry free. im going to continue paying the price.
if youre expecting a scientific or accounting reason to justify the price, youre probably not going to get it here. go interview the manufacturers themselves
: (
Last edited:
No.... McG is far from blinded by marketing. he's referencing 20+ years of experince. He could explain why all day, but in the end it really boils down to: 1 "its better", 2 "if its too expensive don't buy it" and 3 "you get what you pay for".
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Because you don't WANT answers to your questions from people who have evaluated, tried lesser models, found them lacking, and then have bought the more expensive, but better built models that stand the test of time.
I may use a companies marketing to find out about a new product, but I don't BUY it for my critical productions until I have tried it in the field of knock down and drag out field production.
So you'll have to excuse me when I see someone like you devalue other pro's views on gear when they don't jibe with your snide little unfounded opinions on gear that doesn't fit into your particular budget.
I may use a companies marketing to find out about a new product, but I don't BUY it for my critical productions until I have tried it in the field of knock down and drag out field production.
So you'll have to excuse me when I see someone like you devalue other pro's views on gear when they don't jibe with your snide little unfounded opinions on gear that doesn't fit into your particular budget.
- Status