Who would not buy a GH2, if there are no 25p?

[AdrianF]

If it records more it is regarded a Camcorder an Panasonic has to pay 5%, only 5% !!! more tax. I would be more than willing to pay these 5% more to get a time limit free GH2.

Oops, sorry my bad, I wrote VCR, thinking back to the DV input fiasco.

At the moment it seems really unclear what the situation is regarding the standard 1080 output on the camera. If I understand correctly, we only have info from a pre production model and the 50i files don't seem to be interlaced correctly. I would 'hope' that when released, that we'll be able to extract 25p, as in the GH1. If the codec is improved, I would by in this case and having a higher bitrate 24p would be a real bonus.

As I'm looking for a second body to shoot alongside the GH1, not having the ability to shoot 25p would in that case, make it a no go for me.

 

[Matthew P]

No 25p is a no buy for me. It seems quite a big step back for Panasonic to NOT include such an expected framerate in a prosumer (?) camcorder. I really hope they notice these threads and revise their firmware before release.


Maybe we should all start chanting "The GH2 would be perfect for me, except that it's not got 25p", outside the Panna offices. :grin:

 

[volga]

VDSLR in the form in which they now exist will never compete with camcorders such as AF100. Purely technical and ergonomic reasons. Yes, and financial, too. If someone has enough money to AF100, he would never take its place VDSLR. If it is, of course, sane user who needs the right tool. And who the money is only enough for GH2, so he will not take so AF100. A different class machines. Of the different niches, only partially overlapping

Panasonic give 50/60p!
and puff our brains! 25P is already obvious that you need to embed in GH2
and then everyone was waiting for 50 frames and got 24!
Panasonic ashamed of you!

 

[AKED]

At the moment it seems really unclear what the situation is regarding the standard 1080 output on the camera.

Yes

If I understand correctly, we only have info from a pre production model and the 50i files don't seem to be interlaced correctly.

I think this is not correct.
The interlace in the GH2 is exactly, how interlace should be: 2 different fields.
Good: smooth motion.
Bad: you cannot get a decent 25p out of this any more.

The GH1 had not the correct interlace: 2 fields from the same full frame.
Good: it was very easy to draw 25 p of this 50i wrapper.
Bad: no smooth motion.

I really think, 50i and 25p could be included in the GH2.
Technically no problem and this way everybody can use the mode he needs for his production.

And more sales for Panasonic too.

 

[tcglog]

Right. Sorry that I did not clarify it for the PAL version.

Regarding the tax for the 30 minutes limit.
If it records more it is regarded a Camcorder an Panasonic has to pay 5%, only 5% !!! more tax. I would be more than willing to pay these 5% more to get a time limit free GH2.

Years before, this had beenj the same with the DV in with the DV camcorder. Through pressure of the customers they offered also some little more expensive versions, that had DV in and they were successful. Why not the same with the 30 minute limit?

Yeah, and let's not forget that the GH2 is already >5% more expensive in Europe!! So that should be more than enough to cover the bloody tax!

 

[qap15]

Right. Sorry that I did not clarify it for the PAL version.

Regarding the tax for the 30 minutes limit.
If it records more it is regarded a Camcorder an Panasonic has to pay 5%, only 5% !!! more tax. I would be more than willing to pay these 5% more to get a time limit free GH2.

Years before, this had beenj the same with the DV in with the DV camcorder. Through pressure of the customers they offered also some little more expensive versions, that had DV in and they were successful. Why not the same with the 30 minute limit?

What i don't understand, is how does Panasonic describe this camera? If it maintains the GH1 description as a still picture camera which can record video, then why did panasonic go the whole why to improve the video functions? so far no one seems to have expanded or mentioned any improvement made on the still picture functions.
With no still picture improvement, 30 minutes limit , minus the 25 p how does panasonic justify the improvement of GH1 to GH2 to the EU market?

 

[daveswan]

No 25p, no sale period.
However good the video is, if it doesn't do 25p then it's crippled.
Dave

 

[muroshi]

You should do a poll, where only PAL folks can vote, it's obvisous that americans will get it anyway.

 

[Vitaliy Kiselev]

Guys, poll won't get you improvements.
Panasonic is not bad at feedback, but it is not that good.
Instead, get proper Panasonic Japan contacts, translate all your stuff in Japanese and send it from each one who want to participate.

 

[AKED]

You should do a poll, where only PAL folks can vote, it's obvisous that americans will get it anyway.

I don't think that tis will be necessary.
You can see the tendency clearly:
at the moment (79 votes), only

27 % would buy the GH2 anyway.
71 % would buy the GH2 if 25p is implemented.
90 % !!! would buy a GH2 if 50/60p is available

This is a real clear vote I think.
And now exclude the NTSC users and the fiigures will be even more drastic for the European sales of the GH2.

 

[AKED]

Guys, poll won't get you improvements.

Sure, but you see the tendency of the people in one look, without having to read through 60 pages of the thread.

Panasonic is not bad at feedback, but it is not that good.
Instead, get proper Panasonic Japan contacts, translate all your stuff in Japanese and send it from each one who want to participate.

Well, they are not good in communication and responding.
But a sales manager explained to me, that they do not do that, because other companies would know all the features of a new model clear ahead and they do not want this.
It happened once before .

See, now they have the telecrop which nobody knew about and this is a feature, that only Panasonic has. So i kind of understand that policy of not responding, even though it is frustrating for us, not to know it our input will lead to improvement or if not.

We have to wait and see..

 

[Vitaliy Kiselev]

Well, they are not good in communication and responding.
But a sales manager explained to me, that they do not do that, because other companies would know all the features of a new model clear ahead and they do not want this.

Sorry, but I do not get this.
You do not ask them about secret features of their future product.
But instead want to provide user feedback.
They are not sitting here and looking for your votes.

We have to wait and see..

I think that this is pointless.
Either do something or do not start this story.

 

[AKED]

As far as I remember, I have been told, that Panasonic is watching DVXusers.com closely.
So they can see.

And I did already something.

I informed and complained to the sales manager of Panasonic, who provided me with the information of the B-frames, about the missing 25p and that they should re-implement that feature to the GH2.

 

[Spectra]

Interlace is the work of the devil...no 25P/50P progressive PAL frame rates will be a fatal mistake on Panasonics part IMHO.

I will not buy ANY new model VDSLR that does not support the frame rates of the majority of the broadcast world and this was the reason I opted for a GH1 to begin with.....it finally freed me from interlace and its hideous artefacts - try time stretching interlace video and see what happens!!!! 50i and I might as well just use any run of the mill pro video camera.

 

[svecher]

My vote is for 50p/60p implementation in 1080 mode, although I consider omission of 25p a serious mistake as well (dropping functionality that was present in GH1). For my purposes, presence of decent high resolution 60p mode, a must for filming fast action (24 Mbps + B Frames), would make GH2 an upgrade to GH1. This mode would also be a good complement to cinematic 24 fps mode for proper slow motion.
Having interlaced modes is fine, but an option to get true progressive footage as captured by the sensor must be present.

 

[Peter J. DeCrescenzo]

... I have been told, that Panasonic is watching DVXusers.com closely. ... I informed and complained to the sales manager of Panasonic, who provided me with the information of the B-frames, about the missing 25p and that they should re-implement that feature to the GH2.

Thank you, AKED!

 

[libertas]

I've been waiting for the gh2, and will probably look elsewhere (d60, nikon, sony) if there is no 25p. The problem is mixing framerates in the timeline, it's too much trouble to convert everything that comes out of this camera.

 

[Lpowell]

I think the reason why Panasonic implemented 1080p24 and omitted 1080p25 is in plain sight. Check out the list of supported video formats in the official Blu-Ray Disc Specification:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Media_format

This document was authored by the Blu-Ray Disc Association, who's founding members are listed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Founders

Of the founding corporations, the most influential in technology development have been Sony and Panasonic, who are also largely responsible for developing the AVCHD standards implemented in the GH1 and GH2.

What's notable about the Blu-Ray specifications is how backward-looking they are. Great pains were taken to support the mechanically-encumbered 1440x1080 anamorphic recording formats of the soon-to-be obsolete HDV tape camcorders, as well as legacy DVD anamorphic SD formats. While support was provided for interlaced PAL 50i versions of these existing standards, the only 50p format that was acknowledged was 1280x720.

IMO, many useful video formats are missing from the original Blu-Ray specs:

* FHD Widescreen 2.35 anamorphic format in 1080i59.94, 1080i50, 1080p25, 1080p24 and 1080p23.976.
* FHD progressive format in 1080p59.94, 1080p50, 1080p30, 1080p29.97 and 1080p25.
* HD progressive format in 720p30, 720p29.97 and 720p25.

However, the Blu-Ray Disc Association has recently shown itself capable of responding in a pro-active manner to technological innovations in video production:

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3924

So thanks to industry leaders, we can look forward to someday soon watching 3D Blu-Ray movies in "full HD 1080p resolution", no doubt artfully letterboxed within a widescreen 1920x814 frame.

 

[svecher]

I think the reason why Panasonic implemented 1080p24 and omitted 1080p25 is in plain sight. Check out the list of supported video formats in the official Blu-Ray Disc Specification

Well, AVCHD is really just a delivery format. It would be silly, IMHO, for Panasonic to insist that GHx users perform acquisition in a delivery format only. To see why this is silly, let's analyze what's happening on the stills side of the cam -- photographer has a choice to use either an acqusition (RAW) or a delivery (JPEG) or, gasp, both formats at the same time to suit his or her particular needs at the current moment. The acquisition format is not much different, if not the same, as one used by "pro-level" cameras like say 5DmkII, "image quality" notwithstanding. So, while a GHx "photo" user is expected to be smart enough to not try to upload and share a RAW file on Flickr, it is somehow a given that a GHx "video" user is only witty enough to play back footage on their TV. I am not suggesting that GHx necessarily needs a RAW video codec implementation, but that a choice for quazi-acquisition format needs to exist on the video side as well as it does on the photo side. At the very least, this means a user choice of framerates, bitrates and compression schemes. As demostrated by GH13 project, all these targets are easily achievable. So what is the holdup?

 

[androoow]

well said Svecher