Who will get a PAL GH2?

[Matthew P]

From a film-making perspective, the only obvious advantage of getting a PAL GH2 is to have easier camera support (returns etc).

Everything else, imo, is in favour of the NTSC version...

No recording limit,
60p option (for slowmo and for computer use, YouTube will probably go 60p soon, and no monitors are 50p),
Much cheaper

Of course, if Panasonic were to add 25p to the PAL version that would change things significantly!

 

[tcglog]

25p would not:

-bring 60p
-get rid of the recording time limit
-lower the price

 

[Matthew P]

25p would not:

-bring 60p
-get rid of the recording time limit
-lower the price

No, but it would make buying the PAL version worthwhile for PAL people, seeing as 24p is quite useless for us unless it's for Blu Ray or the internet. Besides, 60p at this price range for a large sensor consumer camcorder is quite unrealistic from a marketing viewpoint.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

No, but it would make buying the PAL version worthwhile for PAL people, seeing as 24p is quite useless for us unless it's for Blu Ray or the internet. Besides, 60p at this price range for a large sensor consumer camcorder is quite unrealistic from a marketing viewpoint.

Actually I have been playing with the GH2 PAL footage lately and I think that 25p is completely and totally unnecessary. Name one situation where you record 1080p @ 25 FPS video and then show it natively on a display that supports only 1080p @ 25 FPS. They don't exist.

If you are using a computer monitor then 1080p @ 24 FPS is the best choice for low motion and 720p @ 60 FPS or 720p @ 50 FPS is the best for fast motion.

If you are using a PAL HDTV then 1080i @ 50 fields per second is the best native choice and 1080p @ 24 FPS telecined to 1080p @ 50 FPS will work for footage that has been edited. There is no need for native 1080p @ 25 FPS since Blu-ray doesn't even support it. All PAL Blu-rays are 1080i.

Basically 1080p @ 25 FPS is not used natively on anything.

 

[Matthew P]

Actually I have been playing with the GH2 PAL footage lately and I think that 25p is completely and totally unnecessary. Name one situation where you record 1080p @ 25 FPS video and then show it natively on a display that supports only 1080p @ 25 FPS. They don't exist.

An can HDTV display 25p perfectly, actually. As can SD PAL TVs... the motion is also far nicer than 24p because, until recently, methods of displaying 24p have produced juddery motion, whereas 25p has always been smooth (pretty much like it'd be at the cinema) on PAL televisions.

If you are using a computer monitor then 1080p @ 24 FPS is the best choice for low motion and 720p @ 60 FPS or 720p @ 50 FPS is the best for fast motion.

Why? 24p can't go into 60hz (most monitor's default refresh rate) any more than 25p can... Though, I agree that for computer usage 720p60 is best, but deffinetly not 720p50, as that produces a weird stuttery look because most monitor refresh rates are set to 60Hz by default (most can support 50Hz, though, if you use your graphics card to 'force' it).

If you are using a PAL HDTV then 1080i @ 50 fields per second is the best native choice and 1080p @ 24 FPS telecined to 1080p @ 50 FPS will work for footage that has been edited.

I agree that 1080i50 is best if you want that look in PAL land... but having to use 24p is a massive no-no, as although it does work having it wrapped in an interlaced stream, it inherits the juddery motion that has plagued NTSC countries in the past. In PAL land we don't have to live with it

There is no need for native 1080p @ 25 FPS since Blu-ray doesn't even support it. All PAL Blu-rays are 1080i.

True about Blu Rays, but that's because 25p in 50i works quite well, and pretty much all televisions or players detect the progressive stream and treat it as such.

As for no need for native 1080 @ 25 fps, I agree (though it would be nice, because of the compression benefits...) but to have no option for 25fps at all? Come on now, Panasonic...

Basically 1080p @ 25 FPS is not used natively on anything.

As a distrebution format, no, there are not that many options for 25p. Just native on the internet, or wrapped in 1080i50 for broadcast (which TVs detect and show progressively at full resoluton). 25p is a STANDARD in PAL land, and one that's REQUIRED by many broadcasters and media producers etc.

Also, may I ask if you're actually in PAL land? If not, then you don't really have a right to say that 25p is "totally unnecessary". :happy: As I said before, it's a broadcast standard (distributed as wrapped in 50i), and has been for years.

Anyway, this isn't a duscussion thread about the importance of 25p in a PAL model (any pro will tell you that it's essential...), but a thread about what people in PAL countries will buy because of the limitations Panasonic have placed on said model.

 

[Rolf Silber]

Basically 1080p @ 25 FPS is not used natively on anything.

This purely and utterly and completely wrong for everybody who produces on a semi-pro or pro-base in PAL countries.

25 p is the production standard in more countries with more inhabitants than is the NTSC world. 24 p for us is the wrong format: We can hardly intercut with 24 p without sync problems, we do have sync-problems with down- or up-converting (whatever you believe up or down is) as the sound will have a pitch shift of 4% or we need to do another conversion, we have problems with coming into sync with the 50 Hz grid frequencies with 24 p and have more possibilties of flickering and pumping from non-tungsten-light sources..... while we are having about no problems with 25 p and we do not need to apply pull down removal.

24 p for us would only make sense, if we would need to bring our material back to film and show it in a theatre - a highly unlikely event. It is, in danger of repeating myself, a production standard not a distribution standard.

 

[chrisso]

Back to the topic.....
I'd probably buy one eventually.
The main reason would be as a workhorse to protect my precious GH13.
So I guess any low light shooting, any dodgy security situations, or any projects where the camera might get knocked about, I'd take the GH2.
Spreading usage between two bodies would hopefully prolong the life of the GH13.
The 30 minute time limit doesn't really affect me.
With the Aussie dollar soaring in value, I'd me mighty disappointed if the PAL GH2 was significantly more expensive than the US model.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Looks like someone else is pretty pissed about the lack of 25p on the GH2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgdfzCu6yEw&hd=1

 

[mimirsan]

Looks like someone else is pretty pissed about the lack of 25p on the GH2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgdfzCu6yEw&hd=1

Slightly amusing (love how the PAL users are only about four left in the room...kinda like here on dvxuser from the amount of 24p obsessionites)
I would think most of percentage of dvxusers would be pissed if there was no 24P or 30fps.

Here in PAL land 25p is essential...so as a result Im keeping my GH13's..bollocks to GH2...well done panasonic..well done.

 

[Spectra]

An can HDTV display 25p perfectly, actually. As can SD PAL TVs... the motion is also far nicer than 24p because, until recently, methods of displaying 24p have produced juddery motion, whereas 25p has always been smooth (pretty much like it'd be at the cinema) on PAL televisions.



Why? 24p can't go into 60hz (most monitor's default refresh rate) any more than 25p can... Though, I agree that for computer usage 720p60 is best, but deffinetly not 720p50, as that produces a weird stuttery look because most monitor refresh rates are set to 60Hz by default (most can support 50Hz, though, if you use your graphics card to 'force' it).



I agree that 1080i50 is best if you want that look in PAL land... but having to use 24p is a massive no-no, as although it does work having it wrapped in an interlaced stream, it inherits the juddery motion that has plagued NTSC countries in the past. In PAL land we don't have to live with it



True about Blu Rays, but that's because 25p in 50i works quite well, and pretty much all televisions or players detect the progressive stream and treat it as such.

As for no need for native 1080 @ 25 fps, I agree (though it would be nice, because of the compression benefits...) but to have no option for 25fps at all? Come on now, Panasonic...



As a distrebution format, no, there are not that many options for 25p. Just native on the internet, or wrapped in 1080i50 for broadcast (which TVs detect and show progressively at full resoluton). 25p is a STANDARD in PAL land, and one that's REQUIRED by many broadcasters and media producers etc.

Also, may I ask if you're actually in PAL land? If not, then you don't really have a right to say that 25p is "totally unnecessary". :happy: As I said before, it's a broadcast standard (distributed as wrapped in 50i), and has been for years.

Anyway, this isn't a duscussion thread about the importance of 25p in a PAL model (any pro will tell you that it's essential...), but a thread about what people in PAL countries will buy because of the limitations Panasonic have placed on said model.

+1 - Excellent post.

If you need PAL progressive frame rates with interchangeable lenses and large sensors then Pentax have the K5, Canon have ALL of their current DSLRs supporting 25P and Sony now have the VG-10 and NEX's supporting it.

Nikon = FAIL
Panasonic GH2 = FAIL

 

[Daniel Krnac]

I would also love to see any purpose made PAL GH2 footage and I thank anyone in advance

And now some OffTopic:
PAL users, you are not alone 25P/50P is a standard! We need that in order to work properly.

Imagine that if our fuel octane numbers had the same measuring standard in the Europe as the are in the US (which they do not) then we in Europe simply would´t be able to run any car on a 89 octane fuel, because my 20 year old car has a minimum octane rating of 95... You can´t just ignore the standard!

For me, interlaced + cmos sensor is making my footage almost unusable and forcing me to use lower resolution cameras with CCDs (even prefer 4:3 PAL sometimes...)
Although, it may be better in some situation, vibration is really something that´s making this kind of footage useless.
Most of my shooting is from a car, camera attached to the car with a suction mount. And those cars don´t really have a comfortable suspension.
So vibration is present and there is almost no solution to that. So my best choice is a 1080 50P 3CCD camera. Now check the price of a cheapest one...

The GH2, even with CMOS, even interlaced and with no 50p is still very usable and a steal for its price. But imagine the 1080 50p.... A dream!
And 50p not avalible when sensor outputs 50p? I can only see marketing/money purposes in this... Don´t believe it´s hard to implement...

It´s very sad and not very nice from us, having to rely on hack to fix it Poor Vitalyi. No pressure on you, PAL
Sory for offtopic

 

[HKO]

I am getting the NTSC version. Will edit and master to 24p and to get 25p I will slow the master down in post using Cineform and maintain the audio pitch as well. Works a treat and Hollywood has been doing it this way for PAL for years as far as I know. Good enough for them......good enough for me - just watch the flourecent lights LOL but I am guessing that setting a shutter of 50 will deal with that no?

 

[roei z]

I am getting the NTSC version. Will edit and master to 24p and to get 25p I will slow the master down in post using Cineform and maintain the audio pitch as well. Works a treat and Hollywood has been doing it this way for PAL for years as far as I know. Good enough for them......good enough for me - just watch the flourecent lights LOL but I am guessing that setting a shutter of 50 will deal with that no?

once again i get confused- don't you have to SPEED up for 25p? you say slow down.. (i already saw some discussions of this, and it was clear it's speeding up from 24p to 25p..:undecided

 

[Matthew P]

No Roei, you're right. To get 25p from 24p you have to speed the 24p up. Just some typos that's all.

 

[roei z]

No Roei, you're right. To get 25p from 24p you have to speed the 24p up. Just some typos that's all.

tell that to Mr henryolonga

 

[paralion]

@ henryolonga: why dont you get the PAL version? special reason for that?

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Just looked at some prodution PAL 1080i footage. It is definitely 1080i/50 and not 1080i/25p psf. I wasn't really expecting it to be 25p though. Someone else checked the menu and said that 24p is the only other 1080 option. So it looks like true native 25p will not be an option on the GH2. If you absolutely need true 25p then the GH13 will be your best option.