Who Wants To Be A Moderator? (apologies to Regis Philbin)

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Glad to hear you’re recovering well. I remember your accident story from the exchange we had some time ago, wherein we shared our accident stories and lessons learned - and now I’ve read your progress report.

My accident was a very long time ago, and I had a bunch of hardware installed in me, both arms, wrists etc. - titanium - and at some point an offer was made that I can have some of it removed as what healed, healed. I passed on that - more surgeries, no thanks - but we know a lot more about such implants these days. Apparently, you don’t want any alloys, stick with titanium (with tiny additives), because even titanium, which integrates with bone pretty well, slowly leaks in the body and long term effects are not known. Not to be grim or anything, but you were older than I was at the time of my accident, so perhaps you won’t suffer consequences of quite as many decades of carrying hardware in your body... various pathologies usually manifest only with considerable time passing - of course, I wish you a very long life, so I don’t know how it’ll shake out.

These days, I occasionally feel my hardware-bound bones when the weather gets hinky, but I live in SoCal, so that’s not super frequent - yet another blessin of CA (oops, couldn’t resist :)).

Like I said last time - be religious about phys therapy. Really. The more you do, the more you’ll preserve mobility. If you let it freeze, you’ll be limited forever, because of things like tendon shortening etc. that are pretty irreversible - I was quite dutiful with PT, but even so, I must not have been 100%, because I have tiny issues with my fingers... in other words, as much as I did, I should’ve done even more. So, let me be a bore and urge you - DO YOUR MAX WITH PT! NEVER SLACK OFF!

Chronic pain - it is my fervent hope that surgery resolves this fully, though be prepared for other eventualities, like “diminished, but not gone”. There are a range of things you can do with chronic pain, biofeedback, electrical stimulation etc., and if you can, don’t rely on meds (but only if you can without it being unbearable). Meds can cause neurological changes which then become imprinted and are hard to break. Unfortunately, it’s a bit of a catch-22, insofar as people who have uncontrolled strong chronic pain, actually can become sensitised to pain, making things worse. I would strongly recommend, after all your treatments, if you still have chronic pain, to go to a pain management clinic, they really are pros at dealing with exactly that. And each of us is different - to some degree, pain is a state of mind, and you can get used to “managing” it, living with it, without it controlling your life. It’s just always there, like tinnitus, you feel it when you think about it, but you can filter it out so you’re not suffering 24/7.

Well, I don’t want to jump the gun here, maybe you won’t have any chronic pain - that’s my wish for you, successful treatment and no pain. I’m just sharing my experience and what I’ve learned through the years.

As to “moderator” - even if there was pay involved you couldn’t pay me enough. No thanks! I’m not nominating myself, and nobody is insane enough to nominate me, so I’m safe :)

Keep recovering, Barry!
 
OldCorpse said:
nobody is insane enough to nominate me.
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What the hell, I'll nominate you. We'll get 3 page essays on why, how and the history of the post in the greater context of the forum that violated forum rules...:happy:

PS (to quote a great scholar)- my wife is fused nearly top to bottom with titanium rods, plates and screws. Fused at about 17 levels, I think, and the pain that goes along with that, and the scar tissue and impinged nerves, but she keeps going like my Energizer Bunny (could there be Lithium in there, too?).
The possibility of hardware removal was brought up too late, it's all surrounded by bone- though she says I can hock her hardware when she goes...and it definitely keeps me from complaining about my 40yrs shooting Betacam Back...
But it was a long ago tumor, not a bike crash, so Good Luck Barry!!! :thumbsup:

As Spinal Tap said "Turn it up to 11!!!"
 
filmguy123 said:
Yes! And been watching Long Way Up on AppleTV more recently. Captures the spirit of adventure well, and inspired a handful of my own past moto road trips:

PCH from Olympic National Park down to almost LA, and back up through Yosemite/Lake Tahoe/Crater Lake - incredible. Camped the whole way without reservations, just rolled in and found new strangers to hang out with each night, some I still keep in contact with.

Scottish Highlands, all around - the roads weren't as conducive to the thrill of cornering, but the scenery was second to none. Dramatic dynamic weather changes, small pubs, whiskey, haggis, castles, Distillery tours, scottish highland games, fish and chips, that scene from Skyfall, etc. All on two wheels. One for the books, for sure.

Central + Eastern Oregon, zig-zagging everywhere - it rivaled Scotland in scenery. Painted Hills, Rattlesnake Grade, Joseph OR, gold towns, hot springs, breweries and small town desert vibes, etc. By far the best in terms of roads/cornering - the pavement is near perfect, roads are empty, and they twist everywhere.

I've been getting my fix on the Long Way series until I can travel again. I'd love to take a trip through Canada - Whistler, Banff, Jasper, and back down to the States through Montana and glacier national park - that might be next on the bucket list. If the wife allows it. Or maybe I've had my memories and such risk taking is a thing best left to telling grandkids someday.
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You might enjoy this YouTube channel Harry Metcalfe, founder of EVO magazine. Has a collection of cars and more importantly about 16 off road Dakar replica motorcycles. He really knows what he is talking about and is straight to the point. It's the only car and bike channel I can bear to watch. Lives in the Cotswolds. Admittedly more cars than bikes but he has some interesting off road bike trips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_-Irf7D8V4
 
We'll get 3 page essays on why, how and the history of the post in the greater context of the forum that violated forum rules...

Ouch! Guilty as charged :)... In a futile effort to avoid inevitable misunderstandings, I am somewhat longwinded, and too old to change :)

But just to live up to my longwinded reputation, I’ll continue from my previous post, ha, ha. Because perhaps someone can find it useful - maybe even Barry! What I wanted to do is elaborate on the remark I made in passing about avoiding exotic materials in the hardware they put into you. I say this, because of personal experience. You might think - what role do I, a patient have in picking materials, doesn’t my doctor determine that?

And therein lies the danger. Yes, your doctor picks the materials, but often through no fault of the doctor, you can be in for a disaster. You might think - aren’t all these materials tested and approved by the FDA? Aha! There’s the problem - devices, such as metal implants (hip, knee, teeth, bone stabilizing etc.) are not approved by the FDA using the same protocol as drugs (and even drugs are frequently problematic). Due to various loopholes in the FDA protocol, device manufacturers actually rarely test many devices, not even in animals! It’s a giant scandal, and unfortunately, there is so much money at stake, that it’s not likely to change. And btw. I suffered the consequences myself.

If you want the background to what happened at the FDA, see this writeup.

The bottom line is the exact danger I warned Barry about - “newer” materials have no requirement to be tested, and as a result frequent disasters unfold requiring traumatic (to the patient) recalls (as we’ve had with hip replacements), all of which could’ve been avoided if tests on humans or animals were required before FDA approval. This is why I emphasized “newer” materials. The old materials, such as titanium with minimal additives, were approved after extensive tests and there is decades of experience with patients, so there is a track record.

Given that track record, with those materials, it’s the devil you know. I looked into them, and I liked the odds. Unfortunately, if you now substitute “roughly comparable” materials, you don’t need to test them to get the FDA to approve them - and as you can imagine, “roughly comparable” is a giant loophole you can drive an army of trucks through - as has been done repeatedly with disastrous results.

Here is my experience. I have a very good periodontist who has extensive experience with tooth implants. I have two implants, next to each other. One with the old materials - tested over the decades - smooth titanium. Never had a problem with it. Next to it, the perio decided to implant a new “improved” one, where there was a special process of abrasion and coating on the titanium to facilitate “even better” bone integration. Well, that new one broke. Which is supposed to be rare with implants. When I came in to have it replaced, the perio admitted that he has now had many patients with the new ones that all failed. I’m having the replacement put in a few weeks - and we’re going back to the old design.

Lesson learned. I didn’t realize that there were all these loopholes. I thought “FDA approved” was a safety assurance. I was wrong. I should’ve done more research, instead, I relied on what I was told, and the periodontist too - the last thing he wanted was for it to fail. But unless you are deep into all the nitty gritty, you won’t know.

That’s why I wrote in my previous post, to stick to the old tried and true, and avoid new exotic stuff, because there is no testing on those, and they have limited track record. It’s like my friend who waterproofed his roof with a new material that was supposed to last much longer - it came out just that year - and it failed within 3 years, whereas the old material lasts about 25 years. There’s the problem - no testing, and no track record.

The devil you know vs the devil you don’t.

I’d stick with old style materials for your hardware, Barry, no matter what your - well meaning doctor (unless they have hidden conflict of interest with the device manufacturers, which unfortunately happens all too often) tries to sell you. In my case, the changes to the tooth implant material seemed fairly small and the reasoning behind the process seemed very logical from what we know about how bones work, but unfortunately, biology is so complicated that it was enough for the thing to fail spectacularly. Bottom line, it’s not always malice that’s behind these failures - often it’s well meaning but with not enough of a track record and testing. So always ask: what is the track record of this material? And make sure it’s really THIS material, and not “oh, titanium has been tested for over 50 years” - because the change might be to the coating, or surface or some other minor thing that seems inconsequential, so the doctor will simply assume “titanium” without noting that it’s actually a new process - every detail matters. I’ve had the experienc a generic drug, where I asked what the track record was, and the doc told me “decades” based on the old brand name ingrendients, whereas the generic was on the market for only a couple of years and had to be recalled. That’s why you have to press for details - downside, the docs themselves are often unaware of the details or don’t think them pertinent enough to investigate. Yeah, you’re being a pain in the behind, but unlike a car repair, or roof that can be replaced, it’s your body and your health, and it’s the only model you were given :)

The older I get, the more I realize how you have to check and double-check and do your own research on whatever procedure or drug you’re prescribed. It’s exahausting, but unfortunately, in the end, only you can be responsible for your own health and you have to be your own advocate.

I hope this is helpful, and apologies for the length.

EDIT: btw. just a bit of a heads up regarding generic drugs:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7m...tion-gave-me-constant-nosebleeds-im-not-alone
 
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I'll step up if needed, I just don't get the time I used to have to come here so not sure how effective I'd be. Is this a phpbb forum or something else? Phpbb and Kunena are the two I'm familiar with the mod panels, but it has been a few years.
 
OldCorpse said:
We'll get 3 page essays on why, how and the history of the post in the greater context of the forum that violated forum rules...

Ouch! Guilty as charged :)... In a futile effort to avoid inevitable misunderstandings, I am somewhat longwinded, and too old to change :)

I hope this is helpful, and apologies for the length.
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No apologies necessary, Corpsie! 'Twas said with humor and respect for your thoughtful posts.

I'm longwinded in person (Every. Single. Detail. Can't self edit, haha!). Briefer online- atrocious typing skills. Still.

filmguy was right, that should be your new sig.

And filmguy, that was such an insightful response, I hereby nominate you for Mod! Do I hear a second???

Sometimes filmguy and Abe remind me of each other, 30-somethings (yes?), thoughtful, level headed, love their craft (you're not the same person, are you?).
But since filmguy's in Portland, and Abe's in NY, maybe they could divide the Mod position, taking advantage of time zones.
You know, East Coast/West Coast. What could possibly go wrong with that?

And Corpsie- please make it your sig. We would all love you even more for it! :thumbsup:
And keep rockin the boat!
 
I just remembered a recent moderating decision that I found troubling.

Someone made a post that Barry perceived to contain anti-American sentiment, so Barry subsequently locked the thread.

But before locking it, Barry posted a reply that was explicitly pro-American -- and not in a vague, patriotic sense but specifically endorsing certain controversial policies.

It would have been one thing to simply delete the anti-American post or to lock the thread after it was posted, but Barry took the liberty to have the last word with his own political viewpoint. And I know for a fact that some dvxusers were bothered by that maneuver.

It contributed to a sense of biased enforcement of policy. And while I appreciate all his hard work, I would hope that future moderators and moderating decisions achieve greater neutrality.
 
Barry pointed out something to the effect of, "this is a private forum with its rules, follow them or be gone." Which is true, they're in print.

There is, of course, a difference between critical and anti. I remember the post as being critical, not anti.

Being a Covid thread, it's inevitable there will be a range of opinions of treatments, prevention, healthcare and how to handle the pandemic.

One can disagree (or be critical) of a person's (or country's) opinion or approach, without being anti-person or anti-country...

Bringing it back to film, I think 2001: A Space Odyssey is the best film ever made. A tour de force directed by a visionary ahead of his time.

You might say it's the most boring film ever made, a waste of celluloid. That's a critical opinion, and as long as you don't say "everything Kubrick made was a piece of crap", or attack me for having my opinion, it falls under critical thinking, not an ad hominem attack of me.

That's my 2¢

Healthy Healing, Barry
 
ahalpert said:
It would have been one thing to simply delete the anti-American post or to lock the thread after it was posted, but Barry took the liberty to have the last word with his own political viewpoint. And I know for a fact that some dvxusers were bothered by that maneuver.

It contributed to a sense of biased enforcement of policy. And while I appreciate all his hard work, I would hope that future moderators and moderating decisions achieve greater neutrality.
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Well Abe, you're right. I handled that one in the wrong way.

There was a post made that I found outrageous, and that violated our rules in many ways. The proper approach, following our rules, would be that I should have deleted his post and banned his ass immediately. But I'm flying pretty much solo here. And I wrestled with that decision. I don't want this board to be perceived as a kingdom or as "my way or the highway". It's "the rules or the highway". So even though I found his post personally offensive, and the follow-up PM's outrageously offensive, I instead offered my counter perspective and then locked the thread because it was so far out of bounds at that point that it was irredeemable. But you're correct, I shouldn't have done that, I should have done what the rules call for me to do, I should have deleted his post at the bare minimum, and infracted or banned him.

Which in and of itself was kind of ridiculous, because the whole THREAD had nothing to do with the purpose of DVXUser here. If the thread had never been here in the first place, then it never would have gone the way it did, and none of us would have violated the rules. So I have gone in and deleted it, which erases all turds from the punch bowl from both sides.

As said before, we (and I) have tried many things. We've tried PM'ing. We've tried deleting the whole threads -- that's what we used to do until about a year ago, to eradicate the poison and keep it from leeching into the board. But that seemed like it unnecessarily punished the law-abiding who had done nothing wrong and weren't at fault that someone felt he was above the rules. We've tried guiding the discourse away from the problematic topics. We've tried a lot of things.

One thing that used to really help was that we had a group of very active moderators, about two dozen. And a mod could post up a link and say "what do you guys think of this" and get a varied perspective as to what to do. But, as said, it's down to pretty much me. And I don't think that's right, and frankly I have begun to resent it that I have to be the "bad guy" every time someone decides to purposely shatter the rules here, even though they've been here for years and years and very well know exactly what they're doing is a direct violation of these rules. And I doubly don't like the perception that any mod action may now be seen as a personal vendetta rather than what it is -- you bust a deal, you face the wheel.

So I'm trying to fix that. I have reached out to the old mods to get them re-activated, but they've moved on in their careers and lives. So I'm reaching out to start a new group of mods, hopefully those will be folks who will care about what we've built and who will be invested in growing it into whatever it should be, to serve today's crop of filmmakers, video professionals, writers, and new media storytellers, and who will react and respond to the needs and unique challenges that are facing them today.

I don't know what the future holds for DVXUser. I know that what we made, what we as a community and as leadership built, was the most outrageously successful phenomenon at the time. But times are different. People's needs are different. And it seems like I'm saying "get off my lawn" a bit too much. So I'd like to turn it over to a new crop, those who want it, those who are passionate about the core principles that this place embodied, which are and were: it's about the user. It's about educating, informing, training, raising up, and encouraging the aspiring filmmaker (or youtuber or writer or poet or whatever form storytelling evolves into). That's what I'd like to see happen.
 
I'm largely unaware of these squabbles and have no interest in political arguments. I'm guessing people don't have enough work and are looking for an outlet? I don't blame you for not wanting refereeing these fights. I've seen other forums have an area set aside for that sort of thing. Of course they usually get out of hand without supervision. Too bad forums are almost extinct. Has everyone gone to Facebook or some other social platform? Kinda feels like it's just us old folks left.
 
groveChuck said:
One can disagree (or be critical) of a person's (or country's) opinion or approach, without being anti-person or anti-country...
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Agreed, constructive criticism is the foundation of human growth - personally in our craft, collectively in our families/relationships, and most certainly in our country and world. Democratic nations tend to be built on that principle. While I didn't actually see anything with the specific post or statement in question, so am not referring to anything in particular (for all I know it may have been a non-constructive complaint), I've never loved the sentiment if you don't like America the way it is to go live elsewhere. We are after all an international community of filmmakers here, not an American community, and I love hearing the input from people across the globe so long as its respectful and constructive.

Though to Barry's larger point - and this is not at all in response to your quote there groveChuck just spinning off to a general larger sentiment - it was equally sad and understandable to witness the recent thread nuke... it seems us humans in general have a very difficult time remaining calm and non-attached, both in real life but even especially when through the shield of the internet, and things can very quickly and very easily spiral to the point of no return... even to the point that bleeds outside the thread, where otherwise perfectly healthy forum relationships push people away from the forum all together. In fact I fear that may have already happen in the last thread. There was anger, insults, character assaults, and all sorts of things. What's particularly sad is that in truth, much of it probably revolves around misunderstandings, assumptions, and attachments. And such a thing cannot only be incredibly distracting from filmmaking, but actually detrimental to the health of the website itself... the forum relies on smart people who get along sticking around and contributing. If we lost even one member from that thread it's a huge loss to our community and it makes me sad.

So... I get the predicament. In an ideal world, the approach (one which Barry said was tried in the past) of gently steering the conversation back to a constructive, respectful, agreeable place seems to have failed. It certainly seems to have failed just recently despite a number of individuals trying to find common ground or stay factual. I agree that it would be "ideal" to have a section of the forum where everyone could do that in the ideal way, but it seems it has been proven time and time again that in practice it just doesn't happen. Unfortunately, because many of us here fundamentally respect each other (probably why we are always asking each other for advice and thoughts) and so it's only natural to want to talk about other things as well. I definitely want to hear the thoughts of others and be challenged by them in areas outside of filmmaking because after so many years here and so much help from people, I just really respect everyone and love having my perspective expanded and challenged.

In reality, we can't collectively seem to handle it and so it may be as pragmatic as "keep the filmmaking community alive" or "experiment with more liberal rules that lead to our ultimate demise".

On the death of forums - yes - this forum is a bit of a haven because social media platforms and reddit simply don't allow for the depth seen here. The post structure with social media/reddit is too transient, it doesn't allow for robust focused discourse or cataloging of topics like a forum. Maybe I'm just an "old" 30 year old "who doesn't get it" but I have always, and likely always will, prefer the forum structure over the new social media structure... and there aren't many places like this around. I really want to see it preserved.

We all like Barry, and Barry's not perfect (and wouldn't claim to be) and that's not really the point - perhaps 20 years of collected "Barry Wisdom" may be enough to tingle our Spidey senses and for us all to say "perhaps the unideal forum tradition of 'all or nothing' really will be for the best, because imaginary ideal forum traditions only work for imaginary idyllic people, and humans are by definition not idyllic."

Well, I am not saying I have the answers or that any solution is pragmatically that clear. That's the problem right there. The world has changed in 20 years and the amount of things considered political today has certainly expanded, and the associated polarized stakes are now higher than ever, and so it's quite unfortunate. What to do?

Contractor laws for filmmakers was a recent thread - both political and highly relevant. COVID restrictions and filmmaking - this is a real topic that is helpful to discuss, and yet it's teetering on politics with every breath. Even throwing away a manual will probably be hyper political in 5 years at our current trajectory. Potential diversity mandates on crew is and will be an increasingly practical, a real professional working issue that we all struggle to figure out in our variety of unique expressions. Even when we share and critique each others work, there is often some sort of political or ideological undertone in any piece.

The real point is only to say, the health of the forum relies just as much on all of US as much as it does on a moderator/moderators, and I think we've all collectively dropped the ball a number of times. Because we're human. It's incredibly easy for conversations to get away, and finding an "objective" constructive balance in a world of grays is not black and white, and I certainly do not envy any moderator... even the slightest single misstep is a hot button issue and opens oneself up to criticism and even potential resentment from everyone.


groveChuck said:
And filmguy, that was such an insightful response, I hereby nominate you for Mod! Do I hear a second???

Sometimes filmguy and Abe remind me of each other, 30-somethings (yes?), thoughtful, level headed, love their craft (you're not the same person, are you?).
But since filmguy's in Portland, and Abe's in NY, maybe they could divide the Mod position, taking advantage of time zones.
You know, East Coast/West Coast. What could possibly go wrong with that?
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Aha, fortunately I'm level headed enough to recognize that in my 30s-something state, I lack the requisite wisdom and experience of age to fill the large shoes of the individuals that built this place into what it is. I stand in the shadows of giants here (not just the mods, but all of you) and it would feel backwards to me to moderate people whom I feel I am still learning so much from. I love this place because it's a collective repository of wisdom from those with much professional and life experience, and I'm humbled by all the sage advice and perspective here that has helped me grow. With some work and luck, perhaps after another decade in everyone's company, I may yet be ready to stumble through such an endeavor with much extended grace.

Besides, even if Abe and I split duties all the overseas-ers would come wreak havoc in our sleep anyway :D :D (kidding).

In all seriousness, I love this place so would help fill duties within a larger team of people if needed for the health and survival of the forum if it came to that, though I perceive there are others here older, wiser, and better equipped for such responsibility. Besides, if we're using long-windedness as a disqualifier, I certainly have that card to play as well!

Since we're playing ice bucket challenge here, I'll add to the list... I nominate NorBro and Run&Gun!
 
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Thanks for responding, Barry. I feel bad giving you grief because I know you're the glue holding this place together. I've been a longtime reader of dvxuser but only a regular poster since last March. I've thoroughly enjoyed the community both for the information and the camaraderie and the debate. Incidentally, it was the coronavirus impact and economic threads that lured me into posting regularly because it was a stressful time and everyone was trying to help each other through it both in terms of morale and in terms of tips for grants, etc. And to be honest, I hadn't felt confident before about giving technical advice, but once I started regularly posting, I opened up to contributing to a broader array of discussions.

Thank you for holding down the fort and helping provide a place for us to shoot the ****. It's an invaluable resource for technology, technique, and commiseration. We should all do a better job sticking to neutral territory (especially me :)). I think that political polarization has increased in recent years (and some pundits think that's partly because news media make more profit by riling up their viewers...I'm not sure if that's a political comment or not). But I think that, if anything, it makes it even more valuable to have a site like this.

I do think that some political issues overlap with how sets are run, and it's difficult to avoid those topics. And also it would make me glad to see a broader mix of voices (such as more women) contributing to the forum, but I don't think anyone can do anything to speed that up.

I appreciate all your hard work and I look forward to dvxusering until we're all replaced by cambots
 
I feel bad giving you grief because I know you're the glue holding this place together.
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Well, not anymore, I'm moving on. But thanks for the nice words, to you and to everyone else who has said so.

Back on thread topic: thanks to all who have volunteered to take on some moderating duties. I will be forwarding the names over to the admin crew and the other active mods here.

If anyone else wants to volunteer, please send a note to David Saraceno or Alex H. or Brent@DVXU.

Thanks!

Over and out.
 
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