C300: Who else went from the FS7 to C300 MKII ?

[cane141]

Hi,

I recently sold my FS7 and opted for the C300 MK II.

There wasn't any real solid reason for doing so apart from preferring the Canon image and colour as well as the ergonomics.

I wonder who else has gone this route?

The price reduction obviously motivated the decision also but overall, after using the Sony FS7 for almost 2 years, I wanted to look at the RED Scarlet-W after it was announced but the wait was killing me and the thought the extra spend on RED aks was also stretching the budget a bit too much.

So I took a look at the Canon C300 MK II, and somehow it felt nice to return to the Canon menus and ergonomics, also the image does have a nicer feel.

The FS7 has been a real workhorse but I always seemed to be fighting it and the metabones always had annoying moments dropping connection on my Sigma Art lenses etc.

Most camera guys near me, mostly FS7/FS5 owners can't believe i've gone this route but after really researching the camera, it just felt like the right camera for me, even though it feels like it's going against the grain and hasn't gained as much popularity as the FS7 has in the last year.

Going from Sony's 180 fps FF to Canon's 120fps on a cropped sensor is a bit annoying but not as annoying as I thought since I rarely actually needed 180fps anyway. I tend to shoot around high speed at 60 or a 100 on most shoots.

On the downside, I've had the camera for around a month and I have noticed a few problems like a purple smear that appears in certain lighting situations, I have seen comments about this CMOS Smear and I guess it's something that I need to work around.

I am still getting to know the cameras log modes but if there are any tips on what log modes you prefer for any reason or lowering in camera sharpening or NR for a more cinematic image please chime in!

Otherwise, be good to hear your thoughts on why like me you went this route?

Cheers
C

 

[puredrifting]

I have only rented the FS7, didn't own it, but I find your reaons for spending the extra money and switching perfectly valid. The Sony is a spec monster, it blows the C300 MKII away in that department but putting all of that aside, the images from the C300 MKII, especially of people, objectively look more pleasant. If Sony could make the FS7 look like the C300 MKII, I don't think anyone would buy the C300 MKII, the Sony has much better features and is a lot cheaper. But both cameras are what they are and most prefer the colors, look and motion signature of the Canon. Nothing wrong with the FS7, but I have really not seen any images from it that impressed me whereas I have seen a LOT of images from the C300 MKII that blew me away. It just depends on where you place your priorities, features and specs at a cheaper cost for the Sony or better images from the Canon at a higher cost. That's my take on it. FS7 owners, please show us images you have shot or seen that you know were shot on the FS7 that absolutely blow you away. I would love to take a look, but the best I have seen was heavily massaged log footage that looked okay to me but not great.

 

[Jim Martin]

On the purple smear, are you doing the black balance on a regular basis?....every time I've seen color issues with theC300 MK II, it's fixed by doing a black balance....

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

 

[Parrot]

On the purple smear, are you doing the black balance on a regular basis?....every time I've seen color issues with theC300 MK II, it's fixed by doing a black balance....

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

I'll second this. I'm closing in on a year of ownership of my C300mk2 (I have a 2 digit serial no), and the black balance on the C300mk2 has been a lot more stable than the C300mk1. I typically black balance once a day, just because.

 

[jcs]

On the purple smear, are you doing the black balance on a regular basis?....every time I've seen color issues with theC300 MK II, it's fixed by doing a black balance....

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

One of the recent C300 II's firmware updates mentions a reduction of the smear: http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2016/c300mkii-firmware-update.shtml
This firmware update really improved the image quality, especially noise in the blacks reduced. The color in 'ARRI mode' is really nice for skintones, feels like an ARRI with DPAF. We sold our FS700 and didn't even consider the FS7 because we didn't want to have to spend a lot of time with skintones in post (and still not look as good as Canon/ARRI). That said, the A7S II's color really improved on the A7S, so Sony is moving in the right direction- their next cameras may close the color gap even more.

 

[puredrifting]

... their next cameras may close the color gap even more.

I hope they do. I love Canon but they can be infuriating at times to deal with. It's been a long time since I owned a Sony camera, it would be fun to do so again. I had everything from a TRV-900 camcorder to a BVW-70 Betacam and an EX1. But that was where the Sony train stopped for me. I started renting Varicams and the F900s and comparing and it seemed as if Panasonic evolved their color science to a really beautiful image while Sony evolved to a much more sterile, clean, video-like image beginning with the EX1. At that time, I was still shooting film about 30-40% of my projects so I found the grain and colors on my Panasonic cameras like the HPX170 and the HPX300 to be a nice match for the look and feel of ASA200 S16 film stocks. At that time, shooting the EX1 was a chore, it was so surgically clean and boring, in comparison.

When I went to the DSLRs like the 5D MKII and MKIII, loved the color science too, but the too shallow DOF, DSLR form factor limitations drove me to the EOS Cinema line, which is where I am right now. Still love the Canon color science, but it would be nice if Sony too had better color science, not so "Sony" looking (too sharp, detailed, oversaturated colors with a blue magenta tint to skin tones plus a weird 24p motion signature that always seems "off" to me, something about the cadence?) I've rented and shot the FS700, FS7 and F55 and the F55 was the only one I really liked but can't afford it to own.

 

[jcs]

... the F55 was the only one I really liked but can't afford it to own.

Lucy and Oblivion have amazing color (F65). The F3 and F35 also have many fans of the color and look. Sony can do great color, just not everywhere (unlike Canon and ARRI). I like Panasonic, however when I compare say the GH4 to any Canon camera, especially skintones, I, and models/actors/clients, prefer Canon. The Varicams look decent (prefer C300 II color over it though); perhaps the GH5 will get improved color for skintones. RED can also look pretty good (esp. Dragon, Weapon), but something's a little off with skintones. At that level ARRI looks better to me- skintones look right.

 

[remsyatassi]

I have only rented the FS7, didn't own it, but I find your reaons for spending the extra money and switching perfectly valid. The Sony is a spec monster, it blows the C300 MKII away in that department but putting all of that aside, the images from the C300 MKII, especially of people, objectively look more pleasant. If Sony could make the FS7 look like the C300 MKII, I don't think anyone would buy the C300 MKII, the Sony has much better features and is a lot cheaper. But both cameras are what they are and most prefer the colors, look and motion signature of the Canon. Nothing wrong with the FS7, but I have really not seen any images from it that impressed me whereas I have seen a LOT of images from the C300 MKII that blew me away. It just depends on where you place your priorities, features and specs at a cheaper cost for the Sony or better images from the Canon at a higher cost. That's my take on it. FS7 owners, please show us images you have shot or seen that you know were shot on the FS7 that absolutely blow you away. I would love to take a look, but the best I have seen was heavily massaged log footage that looked okay to me but not great.

Sorry, but they subjectively look more pleasant. People buy the C300mkii because they want to stay Canon, DPAF, and obviously some think it looks better. That's perfectly valid.

Many companies near me switched from C300i to FS7. Colors are great in Cine EI. Many docs I've worked on will happily use either if they are doing real finishing. I have used and really like the C300ii but to say it is objectively better looking (I know, this is a Canon forum) is just a bit silly to me. The one thing FS7 objectively is doing is selling better.

 

[cane141]

On the purple smear, are you doing the black balance on a regular basis?....every time I've seen color issues with theC300 MK II, it's fixed by doing a black balance....

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

Hi Jim,

it's come up at least 2 to 3 times but I haven't noticed it lately, I guess it's best to black balance on every power up from now on.

Cheers,
C

 

[ChristianMoriarty]

My O2:
BB on any resolution changes before & from 4K.

 

[puredrifting]

One cannot deny, Sony is eating Canon's lunch in the mid-range and sales. I would still gladly pay $4k more though for the look and operational advantages of the C300 MKII, for me. If I had a hot new cable show I was shooting though and had to buy four or six of them, putting on my producer hat, that alone would save me $16 to $24k in going with the FS7. I would defer to my DP and a lot of it would depend on my post budget for grading and getting a look I could live with from the FS7. Hopefully I will be making a decision like this next year, if our shows are picked up. If the money is there, will buy six C300 MKII. If money is really tight, which it probably will be, possiby six FS7. Or we may throw both equations out and just rent Alexas or F55s, if our production schedule is not super long and drawn out.

 

[Jim Martin]

One cannot deny, Sony is eating Canon's lunch in the mid-range and sales. I would still gladly pay $4k more though for the look and operational advantages of the C300 MKII, for me. If I had a hot new cable show I was shooting though and had to buy four or six of them, putting on my producer hat, that alone would save me $16 to $24k in going with the FS7. I would defer to my DP and a lot of it would depend on my post budget for grading and getting a look I could live with from the FS7. Hopefully I will be making a decision like this next year, if our shows are picked up. If the money is there, will buy six C300 MKII. If money is really tight, which it probably will be, possiby six FS7. Or we may throw both equations out and just rent Alexas or F55s, if our production schedule is not super long and drawn
out.

Good luck on getting your show green lit!....hopefully, you'll get the right money so you're not pressured into too many compromises....

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

 

[Eric Coughlin]

Good luck on getting your show green lit!....hopefully, you'll get the right money so you're not pressured into too many compromises....

Yeah, I wish you the best too in getting the budget to shoot on not-FS7 so your images don't all look like crud, in which case you'd have to sell your product on content alone.

And now for some cat videos maybe shot on the Sony FS7...

 

[brettsherman]

There wasn't any real solid reason for doing so apart from preferring the Canon image and colour as well as the ergonomics.

I'm on the fence about FS7 vs. C300 Mk II vs. waiting for something else. I currently shoot on the C300 Mk I. I'm curious as to why you think the ergonomics of the C300 Mk II are superior to the FS7. Genuinely curious as just from looking it seems to me the FS7 may be better in that department.

 

[puredrifting]

Good luck on getting your show green lit!....hopefully, you'll get the right money so you're not pressured into too many compromises....

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

First time show runners, I am counting on us being underbudgeted compared to what we want to achieve. But you have to start somewhere!

 

[puredrifting]

Yeah, I wish you the best too in getting the budget to shoot on not-FS7 so your images don't all look like crud, in which case you'd have to sell your product on content alone.

And now for some cat videos maybe shot on the Sony FS7...

Says the man with well over $100k in Canon gear ;-)

I am sure I could live with it but part of the concept for one our pitches relies on a specific look and feel that I think would be a lot more difficult to achieve on the FS7. Not impossible, just a lot more money/time spent in post. The other three concepts could be shot on anything from a Go Pro to an Alexa and it wouldn't really matter. We are at that point where we are determining "the look" for the strongest show concept. Content and talent are great, very entertaining and timely, but as the saying goes, God is in the details.

 

[puredrifting]

I'm on the fence about FS7 vs. C300 Mk II vs. waiting for something else. I currently shoot on the C300 Mk I. I'm curious as to why you think the ergonomics of the C300 Mk II are superior to the FS7. Genuinely curious as just from looking it seems to me the FS7 may be better in that department.

Have you ever dealt with Sony menus, under duress, in a hurry? Ergonomics go way beyond a shoulder pad and handgrip.

 

[Bern Caughey]

..shoot on not-FS7 so your images don't all look like crud...

Yawn.

Spent the last two weeks in four major cities filming a commercial that will be broadcast nationally. Used ALEXA, & FS7, side-by-side yet nobody who viewed the rushes could tell which camera shot which footage, though I'm sure there's pixel-peepers who could.

 

[Eric Coughlin]

Yawn.

Spent the last two weeks in four major cities filming a commercial that will be broadcast nationally. Used ALEXA, & FS7, side-by-side yet nobody who viewed the rushes could tell which camera shot which footage, though I'm sure there's pixel-peepers who could.

So, what is your point? That an FS7 is as good as an Alexa? I don't think that's your point.

Sure, in certain circumstances rushes can be indistinguishable between cameras, but obviously there's a lot more to an image and other factors than rushes for particular shots.

 

[chappelldigital]

Haven't used the C300ii extensively - but one thing that drove me insane on one of my shoots with it was the damn viewfinder being crooked ALL THE TIME - for a camera so expensive you think they'd have more than a piece of crap plastic mount for the entire top viewfinder section!! Ergonomics my @$$ lol what a pain