Which Steadicam Systems

P

Propaganda

Member
I’m looking to purchase a Steadicam system but I’m on the fence about which unit to get. I have to unit in particular I’m really interested in, the Glidecam V-16 and a unit I saw in ASC Magazine the SilverArrow925 by Basson Steady. There a company out of Italy I believe www.bassonsteady.com.

My ultimate goal is to mount the Redrock system along with a Mattebox to my camera. I know this is going to add a considerable amount of weight to my system 15-20 lbs. I know I’ll also need the Zacuto Support System too. Plus a strong back

The advantage I see that the Glidecam V-16 offers is. Alan Gordon in LA offers a 1-2 day workshop on using the V-16 for $200+. Whereas if I get the Basson Steady system. There’s just me, practices and a book I saw on ASC’s website by By Serena Ferrara Steadicam: Techniques and Aesthetics. Even though next year I be in Cine 4 at my school here in SF. But I don’t want to wait that long to become more familiar with the unit. If anyone know of any other books out their that would be great! I also understand that you just can pickup a steadicam and master it in 6mth to a year but I still want to start off on the right foot like all of use do. The Basson unit looks more modern from what I see in the pictures and doesn’t have wire hang from it like the V-16 but for an extra $200 Al Gordon will run the wires through the center post.

I’m also aware of the Steadicam system made by Tiffin but that’s a little out of my price range. I still need to get the Redrock, Zacuto Support System too.:dankk2:
 
Propaganda said:
I also understand that you just can pickup a steadicam and master it in 6mth to a year [...]
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I presume that's a typo there. No one masters Steadicam in 6-mothes to a year. 6 Years of operating will start to get an opertor towards a "master of the art" level.


But, which rig...

Well first off, We (you) have ot look at why you want Steadicam?
It is a highly specialist tool that shouldn't be used too much, and requires a lot of dedication to become good at (note above). Normally a "Steadicam Oprator" is a profession. It's teh one thing that a person does. And a film requiring Steadicam will hire an operator with his/her gear to perform the shots.
I'll aslo ask why you want to fly all that 35mm adapter gear on Steadicam? That will add complication right away. How many shallow DoF shots will you want to fly. Keep in mind that to control focus on Steadicam you need a remote (prefereably Radio) Follow Focus system. These Alone start out at about $4000. There are many other complications with this as well. Not sayign that you shouldn't, poeple have, and do fly 35mm adapters regularly on Steadicam, but be aware of what it incoves and ask if the shot needs it.

A Ultra-low-DoF Steadicam shot at slow-motion shot with the HVX will look fantastic and is very very cool. But is 99% of the tiem nothign more than cool. Let alone EXTREMLY deificult to pull off, for both the Operator and the Focus Puller (yeah, that needs a 2nd person too..)



Ok, Rigs. To be honest, that has been MUCH discussion here on rigs. Run a Search and you'll find loads of detailed information.
But here's a short version of your situation:
The V-16 is a old, workable, but prety limeting rig. Overall it's prety crappy and a few steps short of the quality of the other gear you are looking at.
The Basson is heavy. I've never flown one, but I've head that they are definatyl a long way from perfect. They look good in the website photots - except that their model is holdign the rig compltly wrong.
Oh and about the wires: Basson Photoshops the cameras onto the rigs for the pictures on thair website. That JVC for example is a picture from elsewhere, look carefully and you'll notice the scale and perspective is all wrong. Interprit as you wish. Personally I'd stay clear of them.
I've never flown a Basson myself though, So I can't really say much about the rig itself.
Of course then there's the real Steadicam systems from Tiffen. My faves, and you won't find any photoshopping or quality shortcuts there. But that makes them an expensive option.



My adivce?
Go here: www.thesteadicamworkshops.com and sign up the the December workshop. It's $500 and a good reason to take a trip down to LA for a weekend in December.
You will have a blast and learn loads. It'll be a great & fun experience well worth the money. And that's the worst case scenario. Not to mention the fact that you'll get the proper training you need to get started oprating. You'll be tought by the best instructors (Peter rocks) with the best gear. After that you'll know what it's about and be ready to make a proper descision hwo to spen your heard earned money in the Steadicam world. You can ask as many question you can think of and get so much information that you'll need to sit down for a week just to think about it all.
After that you will be ready to take the next step and you'll already be off to that "proper start" that you are looking for.

- Mikko
 
id say get the glidecam2000 pro, with no bodybrace, and see how long you can hold it withj an arm. record it, host it on youtube, and bring us some popcorn and soda...
 
mikkowilson said:
No, In a nutshell: You should go to a Steadicam workshop. Really. :)

- Mikko
Click to expand...

I second that. Mikko is on the button . . . it will be the best money you can spend on steadicam. You will find yourself in an environment where you can learn first hand if steadicam is really something you want to get into (by actually training as opposed to looking at pictures), before spending all those other hard earned dollars.

You will get answers to your questions (and those asked by others that may be important and you might not thought of until later). Nothing better than having ones questions answered by an expert.

You won't leave the workshop as an operator but you will accumlate the proper application of more experience and knowledge than you would otherwise get chasing the dog around the backyard for the next six months (trust me).

best.
 
I agree that taking a class is a good idea. But as far as the equipment you should look around, Steadicam operators tend to be very faithful to their brand and often will put down other brands. I do agree that bassonsteady seems to be a pretty crappy camera stabilizer, but I do thing the glidcam is good, and you get more for your money than with Steadicam. The V16 is an older model, and should be replaced very soon with a newer one, probably something between the new V25 and the smooth shooter. If you budget is small, I have seen very good result with the smooth shooter, not as versatile as a more expensive stabilizer, but very good for the basic, and probably a good way to get into the trade. in the 8 to 10k, You might want to check out the Artemis DV Pro as well, it's a very well made camera stabilizer at a very good price. Of course you can't go wrong with Steadicam but unfortunately part of the price you pay is the brand. We can debate which is better all day long, and everybody will come with different theory to prove their point. I think you ought to try them all, and get the one that "fit" the best. After an 8hours day, it's not the brand that count, it's whatever match your physic the best.
 
You pay a premium for Steadicam.
But you are getting the best product out there. I have tried many different rigs and hands down the Steadicam always beats out the competition because of:
Quality build,
Ease of use,
Thoughtful design.
It's not just the name you are paying for. I owned a Steadicam EFP that was 15 years old...and sold it a few years ago. I had a job recently and rented a new Glidecam V20. My more than 15 year old Steadicam blew the Glidecam away as far as design, ease of use, ability to boom and tilt, simple balance adjustments, degree of motion on the arm, comfort of the vest, lack of positioning adjustments, size of the components...and the list goes on. There is a reason why the Steadicam is the choice of most professionals. BTW, I don't own one anymore (my back couldn't take extended flying of big rigs). But I've been thinking about getting the Flyer.
But you should definitely try a few different rigs and see for yourself. Your eyes will be opened. And don't miss out on taking a class. I've done the Steadicam workshop at the Maine Workshops twice and they were a couple of the most fun weeks. You learn a lot...and you find out if you have a knack for flying a rig.
 
Workshops always include gear to work with.

Here's what you get at a typical Official Steadicam workshop:
* The tuition.
* Use of the rigs, and a huge array of possible accessories, lowmode, antlers, had-mounts, rickshaws, vehical mounts, etc, etc - The big workshops can also include even more, like gyros, skyman. All rig costs are included, you just go play. Workshops are also teh places that new toys (products) are tested and previewd, so there is no saying what else could be there too.
* The workshop facileties of course, this varies on where it is.
* A certificate of completion, which is accepted as proof of your proficiancy making it possible to rent Steadicam equipment worldwide without trouble. (Rental companies like to know you know what you are dooing before they rent out their gear)
* A workshop manual/textbook with loads more information than you can absorb during the course or find online.
* A t-shirt or two. :)
* The bigger workshops also include all the meals for the week, that's 3 hot meals a day. I'm not sure what the Flyer ones include.
* The priceless contacts you make at the workshop, normally resulting in people you can go back to ask ask advice when you need it long after the workshop is over.
* Some workshops also include a discount on memebership to the Steadicam Operator's Asscociation
* Workshops often also include a discount at some local hotel for accomodations (which is about the only thing not included in the price)

I'm sure there some more smaller benefits, but that's the main list of what you get for the money. There's more information on workshop contents at www.steadicam-ops.com and www.thesteadicamworkshops.com (Flyer specific)

So all you need to go is show up and all your needs are catered for. :) Thgouh there is of course nothgin stopping you from taking your own gear too if you so wish.

- Mikko
 
You don't need to bring anything. But you can of course if you want to. A still camera at least is a good idea.
If you take a video camera, don't spend too much time videotaping the class instead of participating. :)

- Mikko
 
If you want to take photos :) - Irrelevant to the actual course.

Give Peter a call and he'll tell you all the specifics you need to know.

- Mikko
 
I am good at manythings. But as Mikko pointed out, sometimes you need a professional, who is a MASTER, not just good. There are pros in Los Angeles, where I am from, who get paid 6 figures to pull focus. I mean, can you imagine the pressure, and skill you need to be able pull focus and if you dont pull it right and the acting was 100%, and WHAM no more phone calls from people who heard about your mistakes.. Sometimes it just makes sense to pay for the professional work.
 
Just a clarification here on Flyer workshops versus the week-long workshops. I've taken Peter's two-day Flyer workshop twice, once in California and once here in Colorado. They generally do not include a lot of the extra accessories like vehicle mounts and antlers. Depending on who stops by, there may be a rickshaw, but the focus is really on operating technique for the Flyer as it comes out of the box. I've found I prefer it that way.

Peter may discuss vehicle mount techniques, and will certainly answer any questions that come up about other accessories, but it's really all about getting your posture right, getting used to the rig, and understanding how to move. You're just starting to feel competent, and then you have to do your final test shot and go home. (Wonder why I took it twice?) But for $500, it's a no-brainer, and Peter is a great teacher.

Oh, and bagels for breakfast, and lunch are included.
 
Which Steadicam Systems

I am seriously thinking of getting a stabilizer, the Flyer being one I am considering. I need to know if it is posible to replace the SD LCD monitor with the Marchal V R70P HD.
I can't imagine focusing with an SD monitor, and I can't afford to get the F-24. Maybe there are other solutions I don't know about...

cheers.
 
As allready discussed in this thread, if you are seriously looking at a rig. Look at a workshop more seriously first. :)

And yes, the Flyer uses a standard 1/4"-20 mounting screw for the monitor. You may need to do a bit of work on teh cable though which is a special connector on the stock flyer. A breakout cable would probabaly be the easiest.
You don't need a HD picture for operating, and you shoudlnt' be pulling focus when flying either (that's what 1st AC with a focus remote is for).

But I digress, take the workshop and you will learn all this.
Heck, you are in LA, no excuse not to go to the one next month. I would if I could!

... At least go by the Factory in Glendale and check out the systems in person. :)

- Mikko
 
Oh bummer!

Not surprising though, it's only a few weeks away. Steadicam workshops ALWAYS sell out. For a reason too. :)

There will be another one in LA sometimes soon I'm sure. Probably February/March/April.
If you are interested, contact Peter Abraham anyway and let him know there is interest and he'll start getting another together.

- Mikko
 
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