Which NLE you recommend.

Re: Which NLE you recommend.

Well, I know that the pan/crop keyframes don't move if you extend the clip.

I also know that pan/crop isn't good for doing some of the things that the Track Motion will do, like moving a cropped, resized clip around the screen (or moving the screen around the clip, I guess!).

Point being, you can do both in the same 2D editor in LE, and it will automatically move with the clip and will auto-adjust to the length if you resize it.

Again, not busting on Vegas; I'm just pointing out where something else is slightly better. Everything's got pros and cons.
 
Re: Which NLE you recommend.

I happen to use Vegas and like it allot for its responsiveness, Video and sound FX, compatibility with all kinds of video and audio files and media generators.
But, I will never use it as my main NLE for cutting footage because of these Shortcomings:


1.Single – as opposed to multiple – timeline per project.
2.No nested timelines available.
3.Unusual interface – unlike the Source/Record metaphor (not a two-monitor setup).
4.No dedicated trim window.
5.No multiple trimming points on the timeline (in different timecode, on different tracks) – even if clips are grouped together.
6.No hotkey for dissolves (keyboard and GUI)
7.Can’t preview on both VGA monitor AND Pal/NTSC monitor at the same time.
8.No out-of-sync indicators.
9.No In and Out points for the source and on the timeline (just "regions").
10.Somewhat slow rendering, although superior in quality compared to some of the competition.
11.Poor, unreliable media management tools, especially when dealing with long form projects.
12.Moving or altering pre-rendered clips (what other NLEs call "temp files") on the timeline makes you lose all rendering from current location and on (unless rendered to a new track, which takes a toll in losing TC reference and ending up with a more complexed timeline).
13.No over-record mode; if you drop a clip to the timeline on another clip, the original clip remains there instead of being deleted.
14.Transitions are not keyframeable.
15.No border option for PIP effect available in the Clip Pan/Crop Event (instead you need to use the Track Pan/Clip).
16.Keyboard not customizable (wait for version 5).
17.Can’t import log files (such as Excel and ALE sheets).
18.Each time you drag the timeline cursor it changes your IN or OUT points (region). You have to select a clip in order to make the "Add Edit" feature effective (unlike many other NLEs).
19.Very poor titler; no templates are available. If you wish to use a graphic with your CG within Vegas, you are forced to create it in another layer.
20.If you work with a one monitor only setup, you are forced to resize the timeline in order to be able to manage multiple keyframes - unless you prefer dealing with floating windows.
21.In some effects, the timeline cursor can’t be synched to the keyframe editor window cursor.
22.Weird and inconvenient controls on the Pan/Crop Tools (instead of having sliders, you have to deal with arrows).
23.Too basic a Capture tool, not in par with that of Avid or Liquid Edition.
24.If you apply a keyframed effect to a title and then change its duration, the key frames do not change their position respectively.
25.No option for In- and Out- picons for clips on the timeline.
26.No subclip creation.
27.Can't create or save workspaces.

Thanks
 
Re: Which NLE you recommend.

This discussion is extremely interesting. Once a Premiere 6.5 user, I switched to Pro 5 months ago and never had a single crash since then. I never thought I'd change for another NLE, but inability to edit in native 24p made me consider Vegas, which so many of you praise highly.

I even have a Vegas 4 box sitting on the shelf right behind me, and I was about to open it, but then I read Ran's long and detailed list of cons... What ? No multiple timelines ? No nested sequences ? Transitions not keyframeable ? ???

So I think I'll stay with Premiere Pro for the time being, until Adobe releases a 24p update... or until version 5 of Vegas. Furthermore, as a former Sound Forge user, I'll say Audition does everything I need, and Encore is an extremely powerful authoring tool, while this seems to be one of Vegas's weaknesses.
 
Re: Which NLE you recommend.

I went to the ShowBiz Expo in NYC in March, and a guy from Adobe told me he thinks there will be a 24p plugin for P.Pro soon....
For now, what do people with P.Pro (and DVX100A) use for 24p ?
 
Re: Which NLE you recommend.

[quote author=PurposeDriven link=board=nws;num=1081502471;start=0#24 date=04/15/04 at 16:59:13]AVID XPRESS PRO!!!![/quote]

Kinda need the asterisk:

AVID XPRESS PRO!!!!*





* with Mojo
 
Re: Which NLE you recommend.

I'm new to DVX100a but I am staying with Adobe Premiere Pro. I think the question surrounding Adobe vs Vegas vs Avid is one's familiarity with the Adobe products/Vegas/. Since I work very well in After Effects Professional, Audition and Encore as well as the other Adobe products, Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign, etc. and I have done so for years I would not consider working outside of Adobe since they have the most comprehensive package available. I'll edit 24p in After Effects. Of course, if I was relatively new I would look into all available but again---what are you most comfortable with since they each have their strengths but with Adobe they integrate very nicely. ::) Dave
 
Re: Which NLE you recommend.

What I'd really, truly like to know is if there is any real advantage to editing in true 24fps? Or can I just import the Premeire project to After Effects, which is just a matter of opening up After Effects, and clicking on import. It lists all the edits, transitions, even timeline markers from Premiere. Is there a downside to doing this, then using the appropriate pulldown method to get a true 24fps. Also, what's the use of true 24fps if a transfer to film isn't quite yet in the cards? If I were to use Customflix, they wouldn't take true 24fps.

Unless film is a definite possibility, there isn't much use to edit in 24fps. Is that incorrect? All things are a possibility, in which case I'd say that any change from 30 to 24 for film could be easily done and paid for by whatever distribution company were to pick up my film. And that would mean I don't need to edit in true 24fps. Unless there is some issue that hasn't been brought up.

Back to the trump card- After Effects. No matter what the core NLE you use does, in After Effects somewhere and somehow you can do what you truly want. So unless the program isn't convenient to use with AE, you can look over other faults. Except audio stuff. In which case I'm kind of at a loss. But if there's a huge problem you can export from Premiere Pro or Avid Xpress to a wav file (just the small clip, or the entire audio) and do whatever the hell you want with Sound Forge.

Just how compatible is AE with Vegas? Obviously not as compatible as Premiere Pro, and that's a fault. Doesn't kill Vegas, though.

The only thing Vegas truly has over Premiere; something that Premeire in no way can do just yet; that which only Vegas can do that Premeire can't in some way do- edit in true 24fps. And that's just as of now. So unless it's just entirely better in every way to edit 24fps to begin with, instead of 30 and use AE to convert, then there's no reason to switch from one program to Vegas.

But if you're truly curious, it wouldn't hurt to pirate all of them and try them out for longer than trials allow. After actually learning the ins and outs, you'll be able to better decide where to spend $600+

PS- That free "Avid"... thing... totally rotten. Don't even bother trying it. It's like the preschool version, and doesn't allow a glimpse of the true power of Avid. It's even clunkier.
 
Re: Which NLE you recommend.

The world has just changed with the new release of Adobe Premiere which supports Panasonic 24/24p. Just bought the Adobe Video Collection Pro upgrade for $ 249 which will be released end of May. Adobe does it again. Dave
 
Re: Which NLE you recommend.

It's not earth shattering, but it definitely pleases DVX100 owners with Premiere Pro (like me). Same could be said about Vegas 5 new features catching up (dockable windows, user configurable window layout, customizable keyboard short cuts, etc.)
 
Re: Which NLE you recommend.

[quote author=HybridTactics link=board=nws;num=1081502471;start=25#31 date=04/19/04 at 16:44:24]It's not earth shattering, but it definitely pleases DVX100 owners with Premiere Pro (like me).  Same could be said about Vegas 5 new features catching up (dockable windows, user configurable window layout,  customizable keyboard short cuts, etc.)[/quote]

I see you have some perspective on it! ;)

By the way, Vegas 4 already had two of those things -- the dockable windows and the user-configurable window layout.

:D
 
Re: Which NLE you recommend.

So thank you for all the sharings; I am learning and researching... :o

And one more thing: the tool we use does affect the result we produced--that's my belief ::)
 
Re: Which NLE you recommend.

speed razor.
importing all DV footage via S-Video or Component. this tones the sharpness a bit down.

if you wanna go firewire /native DV (the only reason for me would be the automatic cliplogging) then try Blade2.2.

fastest compositor out there. but it is true that the audiofeatures of Vegas are great.

at the end of the day you can make any film with any tool. the worst you can do is search too long. they are all capable of great things. it doesnt matter where the hammer and the nail come from as long as the carpenter know how to measure wood (light?! lol)
 
Re: Which NLE you recommend.

on the PC I see the choice as between Vegas and PPRO.

Of course I'm leaving AVID Xpress Pro out of this but only because I feel the cost with Mojo is prohibitive, around $3000. Avid certainly has that BMW Mercedes reputation but I feel that pound for pound Vegas and PPro are catching up and have surpased Avid Xpress Pro in some areas. Many in the Avid community fear that Xpress Pro will always be limited by Avid's protecting of it's pricier and beefier apps limiting it's future because it competes with Avids more profitable products. I think this is a valid concern.

Back to Vegas and PPRo. I feel either is a valid choice. Personally since I have been using Adobe products for many years, including Premiere, I feel more at home with the interface and the work flow. For me Vegas is alien and non intuitive. If Vegas was my first NLE this probably wouldn't be the case. Both programs have a bright future ahead of them IMO it's just a matter of carefully deciding feature for feature which is for you. Now with support for 24pA in PPro that descision becomes easier for some people. Some people find the Video collection to be a compelling bundle. It certainly offers a lot of bang for the buck and the recent Adobe upgrades make it even more attractive.
 
Re: Which NLE you recommend.

Doesn't Premiere Pro make more sense if you've already invested in other Adobe products and enjoy the integration between the other products such as After Effects, Illustrator, and Photoshop. Even if you can export files between Adobe and other competeing brands it just makes more sense that the apps from this suite would naturally streamline workflow.
 
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