Which legs would you prefer?

The second one says it won't be available until September. Therefore, unless one of us has a time machine, it is unlikely you'll find anybody who has worked with it.

Just to judge by the pictures, though, the first one will be lighter and faster to use, but the second one is probably more stable. If I were shooting out in the field a lot (which is my usual style), I'd lean toward the first. In a more controlled indoor environment I'd prefer the second.

Actually, though, although Sachtler makes fine tripod heads, their legs tend to lag a bit in both sturdiness and convenience of the controls. If the price were competitive, I'd probably prefer to purchase the head separately and team it up either with the Miller Solo DV legs or the Manfrotto 535 -- these are both spreaderless designs similar to the first set in your original message, but with a more established reputation for quality and versatility. As I said, I don't know if that is still an affordable combination for you, however.

- Greg
 
The damn head is 1000 bucks by itself. How much do the Miller Solo DV legs go for?

Is this what you're talking about?

Combined, that would put me at 1700. Worth the extra 200 over the Sachtler kit?

Also, do you know where I can find a quick release plate system so I can mount quickly between my glidecam and the Sachler head?
 
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david_p said:
Vinten Vision Blue package
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/734610-REG/Vinten_VB_AP2F_VB_AP2F_Camera_Support_System.html

ive also got some other Vision heads on Miller Solo VJ legs. i love the versatility of the Miller legs but the above system is a steal and the Blue head is amazing.

david
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Will it be able to handle a dslr with a light weight lens? I need good performance at the very lower end of the spectrum.

Would you consider the blue head to be as good as the cinedslr when working with a 3-5 pound rig (if you can even call it a rig). Many times I will be using literally just a 60D with a small prime lens.
 
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So I need:

Tripod
Head
Quick release system so I can go from Tripod to Glidecam. Right now I'm using a nice Manfrotto system since I have a Manfrotto tripod, but I'm assuming that will be absolute when I upgrade to Vitten or Sachtler.

If the Vinten can handle a 3 pound set up well, I'll go with that. If it needs a 5-6 pound minimum to work well, I'll have to go with the Cinedslr.

The Miller CF legs appeal to me.

How much are we talking for a quick release system so I can go from tripod to Glidecam for Vinten or Sachtler?
 
HansSteinert said:
Will it be able to handle a dslr with a light weight lens? I need good performance at the very lower end of the spectrum.

Would you consider the blue head to be as good as the cinedslr when working with a 3-5 pound rig (if you can even call it a rig). Many times I will be using literally just a 60D with a small prime lens.
Click to expand...

according to the specs the Sachtler cine dslr head is suited for the really lightweight cameras. i havent tried it so i cant say if their claim of handling 1-2 lbs is effective or not.

ive got the Vision Blue and an older Vision 3 that uses the interchangable springs. for instance as to weight handling. if i put a T2i / battery grip & 2 batteries & a canon 24-105mm f4 the balance is usable. 45 degrees forward (down) and 45 degrees back is stable and will stay wherever you tilt it without trying to pop back. beyond that it wants to start coming up a bit.

i mostly use a 5DmkII on it. if i use it with a 50mm or 15mm fisheye then i need to add some weight if i plan to tilt downward to extremes which is not often. i have a little glob of large washers ill attatch to the top of the camera if needed if i need to tilt that extreme downward. if i only need to go from level to extreme downward ill bias the camera & plate forward so most of its movement is from horizontal to downward...not backwards. if i use my 5DmkII with grip and batteries & 24-105mm or 16-35mm 2.8 then the counterbalance is perfect.

the reason i suggested the Vinten Blue over the Sachtler is mostly because i think the Vintens are just simply better *feeling* heads and the package price for the Blue is amazing considering what it offers.

i recently bought a Sachtler FSB 8 after many years of great anticipation and ended up concluding that is was way over rated. having bought the Vision 3 first and after getting the Sachtler i was not impressed in the least having the opportunity to campare both side by side. i decided to give the Blue a chance and was blown away. had the same feel as my more expensive Vision 3. i didnt replace my Vision 3 but added 2 Blue heads & legs.

here is a thread i posted a few times. scroll down a bit and youll see my posts. there are 2 comprehensive posts with my thoughts about the two different heads. my 2nd post is more applicable to you i think. just my opinions of course.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?242066-Libec-LS-22DV-tripod-Head-and-pan-handle-issue/page4

good luck!
david
 
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So I just weighted my 60D + batter grip + lightest lens + the zacuto baseplate for Z-finder (always have it mounted).

it comes in at about 4 pounds 9 ounces.

According to B and H, the Vinten can handle between 4.6 to 11.0 pounds. Now, when I add a Manfrotto 577 quick release plate system on top of it (hoping this will work), that will add almost another pound.

So, I think in this regard I'm good. Vinten sounds appealing.

Now, why should I get this 1200 kit when I can get Miller Carbon Fiber legs + the head for the same price?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/734617-REG/Vinten_V4092_0001_Vision_Blue_Pan_and.html

+

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/293495-REG/Miller_1501_SOLO_DV_Carbon_Fiber.html

Are the Vinten legs actually better?

Do you know if the Manfrotto 577 release system will work with your vinten?
 
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I pretty much dislike floor spreaders and would prefer the mid-level spreader version of the Vinten tripod. Both are available, at essentially the same price. My objection is mainly using ground spreaders outside -- it's hard to find a flat enough spot and you have to get down in the dirt to set them up. The Miller legs are probably more suitable for spontaneous field production, and the Vintens (much like the Sachtlers) would work better in a more controlled environment. Your choice, really. I'm sure both are good.

I can't imagine a tripod that the Manfrotto 577 wouldn't work with -- it has screw holes in the bottom just like your camera, and the locking knob has a ratcheting action so you can still maneuver it even with a wide, flat base underneath it or a fat camera on top of it. I use one on my Sachtler DV6SB all the time and it works fine.

I may be mistaken, but I think the Vision Blue may be natively compatible with your Manfrotto QR plates already, though -- you wouldn't need the 577 at all. This would be worth a phone call or two to check on.

I'm pretty sure my next tripod purchase is going to be the combination of the Vision Blue head and the Miller Solo DV legs.

- Greg
 
How much more sturdy is the Miller compared to the other? Obviously something sturdy is important, but at the same time a lot of my work will be outside in uncontrolled environments.
 
Hans, the miller legs are sweet. for my main 3 tripod setups i have 2 sets of Miller Solo VJ legs and the other is the legs from the Blue kit.

strong points of the Miller legs from my POV are first...Solo VJ go insanely high. just measured a 5DmkII with battergrip w/vision 3 head is 4" below the blades of my ceiling fan in my house. if you value being able to shoot over a crowd...youll want the Solo VJ's. if you dont care about going high...then no need to buy the VJ's over the smaller Miller legs. Miller legs are very sturdy although i wouldnt say any sturdier than the Blue kit legs until maybe you have the Vinten legs fully extended then the tall Miller might have a small edge. Miller legs go real low...does the splits and nearly lays on the ground. this is as amazing of a feature as how high they go. its lightweight, folds down into a very compact package considering how high they go. (im talking about the Solo VJ specifically here). strap attached is very cool and always appreciated and convienent.

negative points foro Miller legs...for me not near as fast to set up as traditional legs like on the Blue kit. twist 3 knobs and drop, twist back and done. Miller nowhere near this for me.

the Blue legs have a mid level spreader and it can be removed so the tripod will go pretty low as well but its all a little more messy to have to do this vs the Miller where the whole rig is very very simple.

greg's point on the Vinten legs vs Miller i agree with completely. the Miller legs will excel in outdoor and funky places better overall. i wouldnt want to take the Vinten legs out in the woods or in a creek but the Miller's excel in rough and funky enviroments and ive been in a funky creek with the Solo's with no fear of any damaging. also

the biggest selling point for the Miller was the Solo VJ's height ability. getting the 2 stage Miller didnt seem as useful for me. having legs that go as high as the Solo VJ's is very empowering. like, you have an interview with a guy 6'4" tall and your in close proximity...? cant get above him with more normal tripod legs so your shooting up his nose a bit or getting too much of a double chin etc. shooting over crowds was the real selling point for me. always having to look for something big, sturdy & stable to set on with my old libec rig got old and usually unsuccessful.

if youve got the extra cash go for the Solo VJ and youll never look back.

all the legs mentioned are great quality so it really just comes down to flexibility and what you might want to do with your shooting.

david
 
Doesn't the VJ have a 100mm bowl? That will work with these 75mm heads?

VJ vs DV is basically a 10inch difference.

Thinking about doing the VJ + Vinten blue head, as long as you guys are getting good performance out of the blue head with a 4 pound 6 ounce load.

How important is a spreader when dealing with DSLRs? I'm assuming the Miller legs don't have one.
 
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you have to decide if 10 extra inches is worth it. if you shooting over standing people then the simple answer is yes. im 6'. standing next to my fully extended solo vj legs (and not even tucked narrowly which will make it even taller) there is about 12-13" from the top of my head up to the lens on my 5DmkII with battery grip. is this important to you? cant speak for you but for me it means im over the crowd although they are still in the bottom of my frame but not much. this might not seem tall but when you extend these legs you will be shocked how freakishly tall they are. this is why i describe owning them as empowering. extreme low and extreme high, sturdy, lightweight, folds compact and a nifty heavy duty strap that thick and padded. really the perfect package IMO.

yes you are right about the 100mm bowl and glad you remind me of that. first dont buy the Miller bowl adaptor. it was recommed by the Miller rep but it didnt work plus it was about $150 as i recall. i use the Manfrotto...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/374313-REG/Manfrotto_319_319_75mm_to_100mm.html
cheap and works great.

how important in the spreader you ask? your right Miller's dont have one and dont need one. they are very rigid...like concrete. its amazing how strong and sturdy they are considering how light they are. obviously the traditional legs like the Vinten's are built to need that spreader and needs it if want them to be solid. technically you could remove them but why would you if your looking for stability.

good luck and let us know how it works out.
david
 
Alright, I'm 99% sold on the Vinten with the VJ. What you described with the Vinten, the smooth deceleration and acceleration, sounds very desirable to me.

If you have a minute, I have one last question:

How much weight do you need to throw on your Vinten before it balances perfect? Does 4 pound 6-9 ounces sound acceptable? I just want to make sure that my 4 pound 6 ounce rig works perfectly with it.

Really appreciate all of this.
 
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5DmkII body only (no batteries) = 28.6oz
battery grip attached EMPTY (no batteries loaded) = 11.1 oz
Canon 24-105mm f4 L (no lens hood attached) = 23.52oz
if my math is correct this all adds up to 63.7 ounce or 3.98 lbs. this is perfect on the Blue head with counterbalance all the way off and drag setting to their lowest positions.
************************************************
5DmkII body only without grip (no batteries loaded) = 28.6oz
Canon 24-105mm f4 L (no lens hood attached)= 23.52oz
total 52.6 ounce or 3.2875 lbs. this is not enough weight

this is what i have so far. i dont have a machine to weigh my washers so ill try to come up with a perfect cutoff point here by trying other lenses & combinations of other gear that i can attach where i can get the manufacturers listed weight. im now curious to the exact weight needed to get perfect CB.

ill edit this as soon as i come up with the final number.

david
EDIT: first i had to revise my data above. the 2nd part i had listed was whacky and off. this is correct now. Vinten's specs of 4lbs is pretty well dead on. the 2nd entry above of 3.2875 lbs is not enough but ill tell you what the head does with that much weight. at about 35 degrees tilting down or back its ok. it will faithfully stay until you try to aim down at more of an angle then you will need to hold it from popping back up. thats almost 7/10ths under the stated weight requirement. the closer you get to 4 lbs the less this will affect you. so like i said in an earlier post if you ***dont need to go steep angles*** all in the same shot then being under the weight limit by a approximately 1/4 or even 1/2 a pound it is still fine because as you get closer to 4lbs the steeper angle will *hold*. for perfect balance on all the extremities though just about 4 lbs is the perfect weight.

on my Vinten Vision 3 i have 5 springs and i rarely change between a few. i use an EX1, HMC150, 5DmkII & T2i and a slew of canon glass up to 300mm 2.8. its set up for perfect balance with my EX1 with no accessories on. ill frequently put my 5DmkII with batt grip /2 batteries loaded & 24-105mm and just live with the CB not being perfect. as long as its in my needed angles of incline im good to go and never notice that its not the perfect spring for CB. also, if im holding the handle going to a steeper angle is no issue at all (unless i was to let go of the handle of course). if im on a casual gig and i have time to change out the springs then ill go for the better CB but not much of the time. now though i love the Blue's because they have adjustable CB instead of the springs.




 
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HansSteinert said:
Well.

I'm sold. Solo VJ + Vinten Blue +100mm adapter.

Thanks.

Vinten should pay you commission.
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haha! glad to be of help. God knows people have helped me mucho times here on DVXuser. its a great resource!

write back after you get to try out the new gear. id like to hear your thoughts.

david
 
david_p said:
haha! glad to be of help. God knows people have helped me mucho times here on DVXuser. its a great resource!

write back after you get to try out the new gear. id like to hear your thoughts.

david
Click to expand...

Won't be till early September unfortunately, but I will! September is when I go on my tripod-head/lighting equipment splurge.
 
If the weight is less, then you can try to raise it using some plates or raiser etc. When the COG is raised - you need to figure out by how much - the same weight will work.

Cheers,
Sabyasachi
 
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