Which is Better: S-LOG w/o Ex Recorder or Ex Recorder w/o S-LOG?

I Still think getting a recorder is a better use of $3500....

That said, sLog>Sliced Bread.
 
I understand when shooting S-log there is only 3200 and 5600 white balance but how do you switch the settings?
Thank you in advance.
 
Press the 5600K button on the upper left corner of camera. When illuminated it will be set for 5600K. Same as you would do without S Log when wanting to change 3200K preset to 5600K.
 
That 5600K button is one of the camera's little quirks and so easily overlooked.

Note, however, that it is additive. If you are set to 3200K preset, it effectiely adds +2400 to make 5600. If you happen to be in either A or B, it will add to whatever setting you have whether from a manual wb, atw, or value you have set.

Ned
 
nsoltz said:
That 5600K button is one of the camera's little quirks and so easily overlooked.

Note, however, that it is additive. If you are set to 3200K preset, it effectiely adds +2400 to make 5600. If you happen to be in either A or B, it will add to whatever setting you have whether from a manual wb, atw, or value you have set.

Ned
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Does this apply in S-log too, or are you limited to absolute values of 5600 and 3200K?
 
In S-Log you're limited to either 3200K or 5600K. Thus, in S-Log you need to keep your white balance on pre-set (3200K) and toggle to 5600K
 
nsoltz said:
In S-Log you're limited to either 3200K or 5600K. Thus, in S-Log you need to keep your white balance on pre-set (3200K) and toggle to 5600K
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Thanks, that's what I thought. Wonder why this is.... and if it can be changed with firmware.
 
S Log gives you a heap of latitude and will improve your image enormously.
Dual record has saved my arse already. I recommend spending the money on the S Log & rent the recorder, until you find a cheap KiPro selling second hand!!
 
Mitch Gross said:
Even though it was Sony's intent that S-Log be used for later post color correction, we all know that often we find other ways to use tools. Just like FILM REC mode on the Panasonic Varicam was really only meant for film out finishes, but many people chose to shoot with in to get an extended gamma range and simply light and expose to that. Sony offers a very similar mode using their Hypergamma settings. The Japanese engineers might say that we're "using it wrong<" but so what if we like the way it looks?

Instead of the overly saturated, heavy-colored highlights look of Sony's Rec709, try this: shoot in S-Log and RECORD one of the Hypergamma viewing LUTs. I like the 800% with grey point at 40. You get an expanded Dynamic Range compared to Rec709, but with some protection from clipping at the top. Even more importantly you peel away Sony's color matrixing, which has the classic "Sony look" of over-saturated highlights that can both appear very Kodachrome-esque and can also lead to odd over-exposure highlight artifacts like white objects turning yellow. On film (and on the film-emulating look of the Alexa), colors desaturate as they reach overexposure into white. I much prefer that look.

Shoot in this mode and record it either externally or internally. You my find that you wish to add a little touch of saturaton to the final image, or perhaps not depending on your taste. But you won't have to go through a rigorous color correction and gamma adjustment, which is when the lower bit depth and heavier compression really bites you. Just light to this look and you can get stunning images out of the F3 which are remarkably better than the standard Rec709, no matter what you do in the Picture Profile menus. You can record this externally or to the SxS cards. It really turns the F3 into an altogether different camera.

Most jobs do not have the time, money or inclination to go through in depth color correction. This is a way to improve the look of the camera without recording true Log, so that what is recorded can be the finished image. Again, you may wish to add a bit of saturation to the colors in this mode, but it wouldn't be much and would likely be an overall adjustment to the entire project based on the look you prefer. That's pretty easy and the image is much better.
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Hi Mitch, everyone!, I need some help. Big time. I just received my S-LOG today and have updated camera.
I want to do record the picture with the LUT applied straight to my Samurai and also want to monitor the picture on my TVLOGIC monitor with the LUT applied with camera information (because I heavily rely on its focussing and Waveform monitor). The issue is, I only seem to be able to get a picture with the LUT table applied out of SDI OUT and not HD SDI 1 at the same time. I need the Samurai to naturally record a clean signal (with the LUT applied) and use the the second signal (again with the LUT applied) but with focus assist, waveform monitoring etc.
How can I get both the SDI OUT and HD SDI A to out put a picture with the LUT applied - but with only one of the signals displaying the picture/camera info - one clean and one dirty? I suppose that is the question! I have the latest firmware upgrade on the F3. There's a beer out there for a little help! Thanks, Sparky
 
The SDI A will only output a clean, non-lut signal. You can output either a LUT or non-LUT signal from either SDI or HDMI out.
The Samurai has HD-SDI loop through. So I presume your TVLogic has HD-SDI, so just lopp the output through the Samurai. Since it seems that you don't want to record the non-LUT output, all that is really relevant to you is the HD-SDI with the LUT turned on. Personally, I would record non-LUT to the Samurai and monitor the viewing LUT through the SDI port to the TVLogic.
 
nsoltz said:
The SDI A will only output a clean, non-lut signal. You can output either a LUT or non-LUT signal from either SDI or HDMI out.
The Samurai has HD-SDI loop through. So I presume your TVLogic has HD-SDI, so just lopp the output through the Samurai. Since it seems that you don't want to record the non-LUT output, all that is really relevant to you is the HD-SDI with the LUT turned on. Personally, I would record non-LUT to the Samurai and monitor the viewing LUT through the SDI port to the TVLogic.
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Thanks so much for getting back. Never considered the loop through option - that could be the answer! I was planning to record the LUT through the Samurai as I think this will make my post production time a little quicker/ easier, and it seems to be a popular method by some on this forum. Cheers again, Sparky
 
sorry just trying to get my head around this. So I could record the LUT S-LOG signal through the SDI output directly to my Samurai, and send a clean non LUT signal through the HD-SDI A connector through to my TVLOGIC monitor, which I could use that to judge the exposure on its waveform monitor, and of course accurate focus. Make sense?
 
Sparky874 said:
sorry just trying to get my head around this. So I could record the LUT S-LOG signal through the SDI output directly to my Samurai, and send a clean non LUT signal through the HD-SDI A connector through to my TVLOGIC monitor, which I could use that to judge the exposure on its waveform monitor, and of course accurate focus. Make sense?
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I would have thought you judge exposure through the LUT one rather than the clean one?
 
Sparky874 said:
So I could record the LUT S-LOG signal through the SDI output directly to my Samurai, and send a clean non LUT signal through the HD-SDI A connector through to my TVLOGIC monitor, which I could use that to judge the exposure on its waveform monitor, and of course accurate focus. Make sense?
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Excuse me if I missed something in your previous posts, but if you are recording the LUT signal to your Samurai, where are you recording the clean S-LOG signal?
 
Doug, I think his original point was that he actually wanted to record the LUT signal rather than the clean signal.

Ned
 
Yes I understand he wants to record the LUT, but WHERE is he recording the clean S-LOG signal??
What is the point of having S-LOG if you are only recording the LUT? That makes no sense at all. Did I miss something?

Ned, I don't think you would disagree that all of the built-in monitor LUTS look terrible to compared using a nice Picture Profile. Even the camera's standard PP OFF look is better than a LUT. The LUTS are so bad, that I will not even allow a client to look at LUT when I am shooting S-LOG. I'd rather they look at the raw S-LOG output than see a half-assed LUT. No one in their right mind would record a LUT and then use that for their final edit. You might use it for off-lining and then comform to the S-LOG file for final grading, but you'd never want to use the LUT as your final image. So if you haven't even recorded the S-LOG, and only recorded the LUT, then what is going to be your final image??

So, I'll repeat my question to Sparky874, where is the S-LOG being recorded if the Samurai is being used for the LUT?
 
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I haven't done any pixel peeping on a LUT recording. I've only monitored it on a 5.6" screen and rarely that. Its a given that the colors and contrast will need to be tweaked, but in 10 bit that shouldn't be a problem. And ProRes HQ shouldn't be introducing too many artifacts compared to XDCAM.

So what's wrong with LUT recordings, are they noisy? Crushed? Bad highlights? I don't know why it would be either of those things other than crushed, because in a sense it is crushed.

What are the issues?
 
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