Which cameras have IR issues?

Sony deff need to come out and address this problem.

Look at how many posts (and hours) spent talking about this......hours we will never get back.

What about that Schneider 486 so....buy or not to buy?
 
Yeah, shot under theatre lights a few weekends ago and had really bad IR contamination. Seems like to big of a problem to be ignored on professional cameras no?

Any idea when that Tiffen filter is supposed to be released?
 
asafb said:
Hello,
Does anyone know which cameras have IR issues and which ones do not - I know the following do:

Sony EX1
Sony EX3
Panasonic HVX200
Red One
Panasonic Varicam (Tape-based)
Click to expand...

Sorry of these cameras you have mentioned 2 do not have the issue. That would be the HVX200 and the Varicam.

Not sure where you got your info, but it is wrong.

thanks,

Jan
 
There are times when the IR issue is really a pain.. press conferences where the subjects are wearing black (brown?) suits, classical concerts where everyone is supposed to be dressed in black, but come out looking like burgundys and browns, and any combination of shooting situations where there are tungsten lights and black fabrics.

Honestly, no one has complained about it, but I do worry when the day comes that someone raises the issue and wants it corrected. I wish I knew the reason why my prosumer V1U does NOT have the IR issue, whilst the EX1 does.

If there is a design flaw, I would think that Sony should square up with it's customers and fix the problem, if not at no cost, then at least at some prorated fee.
 
Every camera has tradeoffs. People buy Panny for the color. People buy Sony for the detailed, photographic images. Most of the time the IR issue doesn't pose much of a problem, but for those times it does, ugh...
 
FWIW, CMOS or CCD... it doesn't matter. They are both silicon and that is where the IR sensitivity comes from. It is all dependent upon whether there is IR filtration and how effective it is. The IR filters can be a separate IR blocking filter or the IR band block could be built into the 3 color filters (in the case of 3 sensor cameras). Even with an IR block, there can be some leakage (not all IR filters are created equal, even from the same manufacturer). Filter manufacturing rejection rates for narrow band filter designs tend to be high and filter degradation can happen over time, especially if the camera is subjected to high humidity environments.
 
And Bic, as I pointed out above, the Panasonic cameras do not have this issue, Manufacturing and Engineering has figured out how to deal with the issue successfully.

Best,

Jan
 
Last edited:
mosttoys said:
Jan,

I have experienced horrible IR problems on the HMC-40 panasonic camera. Are you saying this isn't possible ?
Click to expand...

Haven't seen that myself. I certainly don't see it on the HPX300, as seen in Barry's review. But I when my engineer gets back on Friday we'll set it up and take a look. So what were you shooting and can you post some stills for comparison? Did you have a CCD camera there as well? What F stop, scene file, or scene file settings if different than the standard. Frankly this is the first I have heard that the little guy might have an issue. So am truly curious.

Let me know your conditions and we will try to recreate here.

Best,

Jan
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
Haven't seen that myself. I certainly don't see it on the HPX300, as seen in Barry's review. But I when my engineer gets back on Friday we'll set it up and take a look. So what were you shooting and can you post some stills for comparison? Did you have a CCD camera there as well? What F stop, scene file, or scene file settings if different than the standard. Frankly this is the first I have heard that the little guy might have an issue. So am truly curious.

Let me know your conditions and we will try to recreate here.

Best,

Jan
Click to expand...

Will do when I get home tonight, I can easily duplicate it and post some images with settings.
 
Last edited:
Luckily there is the Teffin IR filter to fix the EX1's IR issue. Still it's a drag, but the EX1 is also still the best way to spend 6 grand on a camera. And the EX1r doesn't have the issue. Lucky EX1R owners...

Here is a before/after of the EX1 using the T1 filter:

picture.php
 
Jan,

Here is an example of the IR problem on the HMC-40. Honestly, I was about to buy 3 more of them for a multi-cam shoot (Symphony on Stage) until I discovered they suffer badly from IR. So instead I'm using the inferior canon HFS100's which suffer from interlaced 24p encoding but not IR. So I live with jaggies instead of various colors of black. I'm also not quite sure why, but the ex1 looks better than it normally does, I have seen it go almost maroon. The EX1r represents what it looks like to the eye the closest.

The cloth in the picture is black velvet.

HMC-40 15DB GAIN 3.2K WB STD SCENE
hmc40.jpg



5D MK II AWB
5d.jpg



EX1R 3200K no gain
ex1r.jpg



EX1 3200K no gain
ex1.jpg



EX1 with 486 filter 3200k no gain
ex1-486.jpg



HFS100
hfs100.jpg
 
Mosttoys,

Thanks for posting the comparison. That's the first comparison I've seen of IR effect on EX1 vs. EX1R. Looks like Sony did good job fixing the problem on the EX1R. I'm surprised at the dynamic range the EX1R (and EX1) is showing. It has more highlight AND shadow details than the 5DMk2. Was this the case in the original pictures, or was there something lost in the compression?

BTW, you do have lots of toys.
 
Boy, it took a junior member to get to get truth and objectivity on this. Even without IR filter the original EX1 pic looks better than the Hmc40. Fantastic job mosttoys. It should be a sticky.

Also the slight green tint in the EX1 with 486 pic would go away if a T1 were used instead.

And I agree, the DR of the Ex1/R smokes them all.
 
mosttoys said:
Jan,

So instead I'm using the inferior canon HFS100's which suffer from interlaced 24p encoding but not IR. So I live with jaggies instead of various colors of black.
Click to expand...

And not to get off topic but I have a Canon HF10 and you can lose the interlace issues. If you are a mac user you can transcode using these HV20 methods and you will not get jaggies. I'm sure there is a PC compatible process someone can chime in with.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2410
 
mico said:
And not to get off topic but I have a Canon HF10 and you can lose the interlace issues. If you are a mac user you can transcode using these HV20 methods and you will not get jaggies. I'm sure there is a PC compatible process someone can chime in with.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2410
Click to expand...

This isn't true, yes you can get true 24 frames but they are still encoded using an interlaced method so you get jaggies (especially reds). Ref. Adam Wilts article Adam Wilt HMC-40 review. This is why the new canon HF S21 has an additional mode called Native 24p. I have tested this myself and the panasonic does not have the jaggies and the HFS100 via the methods you describe does. Violin bows are especially bad on the HFS100, looks like stair steps.
 
It is true progressive but the 24p is not flagged like the panasonic. Its 24p in a 60i stream. If you follow the directions you will get true progressive out of it. You will have to remove pulldown on unflagged 24p footage. Its not just switching to 24p recording that gets you a clean image theres more work to do. I don't think Adam Wilt is doing the conversion, he's just looking at the footage as originally shot in progressive mode where the color sampling is introducing the jaggies but he hasn't transcoded and gone through the necessary steps to get true 24p without the interlaced artifacts.

The tape based HV20 is basically the same and everyone holds that camera in high regard for its progressive qualities.

Like it says in the Apple document: " ... but due to differing characteristics in the ways that the media is handled, special care is required so that interlacing artifacts and pulldown cadence issues are not introduced in your work."

If you don't like the Apple method give the free cineform Neoscene trial a try to remove pulldown. It not only gives you 24p but it also correctly detects 4:2:0 and transcodes to proper 4:2:2.

http://www.cineform.com/neoscene/index.php
 
Last edited:
Sumfun said:
I'm surprised at the dynamic range the EX1R (and EX1) is showing. It has more highlight AND shadow details than the 5DMk2.
Click to expand...
That shouldn't be surprising. The 5D has about 8 stops, the EX1 around 10 stops, so yeah, it should show both more highlights and more shadow details.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top