Reframes over 133% will not be that razorsharp. Remember that RedRAW is still compressed quite a lot and there are lenses that don't resolve even HD (mostly anamorphics and the corner res of them). And I don't really see how 4k is a boon for secondaries. Explain?
Which announcement were you more satisfied with?
- Thread starter Hutchman
- Start date
Reframes over 133% will not be that razorsharp. Remember that RedRAW is still compressed quite a lot and there are lenses that don't resolve even HD (mostly anamorphics and the corner res of them). And I don't really see how 4k is a boon for secondaries. Explain?
combatentropy
Veteran
The important part was log gamma. Have you ever worked with S-Log? Admittedly I have worked with neither. I am just looking at the finished products coming out of various cameras. To me, the S-Log footage seems to give all the flexibility I need in post. Beyond that, I can't even conceive the difference of what REDCODE has, besides still needing to be debayered.
Agree 100%
5k is slightly larger than S35, 4k is slightly smaller APSC size. 3k is about m4/3 size, 2k is a bit larger than standard 16mm, bigger than 2/3", 1k falls between 1/3" and 1/2".
Compared to FF35 , 5k is 1.3 crop, 4k is 1.6, 4kHD is 1.7, 3k is 2.2, 2k is 3.2, 1k is 4.5.
I'm thinking of Scarlet more as an alternative to an entry level 2/3" camera for video at 2k plus a top quality stills camera at 5k. The intermediate formats are a nice bonus for large sensor motion work. But most of what I normally shoot video for would be just fine at 2k using 16mm glass.
Redcode at 3:1 compression is mathematically lossless, meaning that there is no difference in the extracted file between 3:1 and uncompressed. No data is lost. Compression ratios are user selectable between 3:1 and 18:1.
Just in case someone missed it: (Basics you'd want to know about the crops on Scarlet)
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?66210-Scarlet-X-Data-Sheet
..interestingly enough, I see it as an advantage (the crop) in some cases....for example:
This: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...gory=3323&_trksid=p5197.c0.m619#ht_500wt_1202
With Scarlet seems like a WICKED temptation....and with the Crop, it means that it would be HDRx, 3K, 24-70 (35mm equiv) F2.0...YIKES!!!!
Pretty special, especially seeing as I can turn around and shoot 4K, 24fps with this cheap lens: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tamron-SP-A...mera_Lenses&hash=item4ab05dd19d#ht_4722wt_905
and shoot a similar range but a stop slower...still crazy stuff!!!
Interesting, you CAN'T do that on EPIC....pretty cool!
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?66210-Scarlet-X-Data-Sheet
..interestingly enough, I see it as an advantage (the crop) in some cases....for example:
This: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...gory=3323&_trksid=p5197.c0.m619#ht_500wt_1202
With Scarlet seems like a WICKED temptation....and with the Crop, it means that it would be HDRx, 3K, 24-70 (35mm equiv) F2.0...YIKES!!!!
Pretty special, especially seeing as I can turn around and shoot 4K, 24fps with this cheap lens: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tamron-SP-A...mera_Lenses&hash=item4ab05dd19d#ht_4722wt_905
and shoot a similar range but a stop slower...still crazy stuff!!!
Interesting, you CAN'T do that on EPIC....pretty cool!
Erich Ocean
Active member
Can you shoot M4/3 lenses on EPIC?
Erich Ocean
Active member
I am far happier with the C300 announcement, because I have a very clear picture where Canon is headed, and I like it a lot.
I have an Epic-X in transit (arrives on the 16th). I learned absolutely nothing new about where Red intends to go. (I did attend the Red event in Hollywood.)
I think it's great that people can get a stripped down Epic on the cheap, but I'm far happier to see how serious Canon is about the motion picture market, and that they've really nailed the form factor, overall system, and what is important to filmmakers (including that time-to-market is important, even if it means a non-10-bit codec today).
I have until the 15th to order a Scarlet for early delivery, and I am strongly leaning towards putting my money into a C300, for both the form factor and the low-light capabilities. It'll intercut with Epic very, very well.
I have an Epic-X in transit (arrives on the 16th). I learned absolutely nothing new about where Red intends to go. (I did attend the Red event in Hollywood.)
I think it's great that people can get a stripped down Epic on the cheap, but I'm far happier to see how serious Canon is about the motion picture market, and that they've really nailed the form factor, overall system, and what is important to filmmakers (including that time-to-market is important, even if it means a non-10-bit codec today).
I have until the 15th to order a Scarlet for early delivery, and I am strongly leaning towards putting my money into a C300, for both the form factor and the low-light capabilities. It'll intercut with Epic very, very well.
It's entirely possible I missed something Erich, but as I asked before (see above), can you shoot with a Micro 4/3 lens on an EPIC?
=====EDIT======
OK...no response, I guess you'll see this later. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
As a part of this annoucement, the Scarlet is "cropping" as it changes the resolution. What this means is that the Scarlet ***CAN*** in fact shoot with M4/3 lenses (from an image circle standpoint)...it is NOT my understanding that the EPIC can do this. Please DO correct me if I am wrong.
Here are 3 reasons why that is pretty cool for some of us indies:
1. Olympus Zuiko 14-35mm f/2.0
2. Voigtlander Nokton 0.95/25 mm
3. Olympus M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 12mm F2.0
I'm aware that there is NOT a adapter for these lenses (many will think to stack a M4/3 to Canon "dumb adapter" to the EOS to Red)....that doesn't solve the aperture, but, these are pretty interesting lenses. I'm pretty excited that the possibility is even there to shoot them on the Scarlet. (Again folks, set me straight if you can do this on an EPIC too....)
Oh...and BTW, this sensor/resolution size puts this in the 3K, HDRx, 24fps, range. DANG!!!!! That's pretty special!!!!
See here again: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?66210-Scarlet-X-Data-Sheet
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Erich Ocean
Active member
This is false. RedCode at 2.5:1 is mathematically lossless. It was part of the original Epic spec, but Red failed to meet that target. Search RedUser for Jannard's post on the topic.
I watched this very closely as (a) I had an Epic on order for 18 months, and (b) I wanted to see if Red's problems with skin tones were due to compression. Having the lossless compression would have allowed for direct evaluation of the compression quality vs. uncompressed. Sadly, that died during development.
Erich Ocean
Active member
With the right adaptor, yes. Epic has cropped modes the same as Scarlet; just the potential frame rates are much higher.
There's a really sweet S16 approach with Epic and Scarlet using 3K 2:1 and cropping to 2400x1350 with 1080p output. A set of S16 Illuminas covers the crop without vignetting and is only $12.5K for the 6 lens set; a really great option for budget minded shooters and people who like the S16mm look. Shooting at T1.3 (which they do) is like shooting T2.8 on S35mm, DoF-wise. It's a beautiful look.
J Davis
Veteran
I've been wondering about this too. Is there an adapter that lets you control aperture on m43 lenses? My main interest is for the m43 20mm f1.7 pancake as it would act like a 40mm when shooting 2k 60p
Thank you sooo much Erich for educating me. As EPIC has never been an option for me, I've NOT looked real close, so now I am aware. I TOTALLY missed that one. VERY COOL!!! (For EPIC and Scarlet) Obviously I knew that it has superior fps and data rates....I just didn't know about the crop(s). Thanks again! Cheers!
J Davis
Veteran
wow ! good to know ... thanks for the heads up
Erich Ocean
Active member
AFAIK, there is no adaptor for the Epic/Scarlet. I did ask around earlier this year to see if anyone had the electronic info on the lenses, but that's closely guarded by Olympic and Panasonic. Supposedly, Birger has reverse engineered (some of?) it, so they could come out with a mount in the future. I haven't heard Red say anything about it.
Barry_Green
Moderator
I don't understand why the sensor crop thing seems to be such a surprise to people. Every Red ever made does the same thing. My original Red One from 2007 did it. They all do. And this same feature gets praised through the rooftops on the GH2 (where it's called ETC) but somehow it's a bad thing on the Scarlet?My original Red One, the $17,500 body-only, had similar specs to the Scarlet: 4k mode at 1 to 30 fps. So the way I look at it, the Scarlet is the same basic feature set as the Red One, at half the price... except that it's the upgraded Mysterium-X sensor, which in and of itself was a $5,750 upgrade. So you're buying the same (basic) camera for $9,750 that people last year were paying $25,000 for. And the sensor crop mode is what lets 16mm lenses work on the Red. Just like ETC allows 16mm lenses to work on the GH2.
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Hi Barry,
Was the Scarlet package enough to make you buy Red again?
or are you waiting for other options...
Melvin Harris
Black Flag Member
I wondered how and if Red would revolutionize the mid-range.
Also, I wanted to know if Red would deliver anything close to what was promised, and if people, much like lemmings, would jump from the cliff and buy whatever was announced in any event.
Red did not.
People did.
Also, I wanted to know if Red would deliver anything close to what was promised, and if people, much like lemmings, would jump from the cliff and buy whatever was announced in any event.
Red did not.
People did.