Where should Wedding/Event section live?

[J.R. Hudson]

I didnt say all criticism is undesired. There are multitudes of comments I've read in many "first wedding video" threads by people such as yourself saying things such as

"Dude if I ever did weddings I'd kill myself" or

"Honestly this sucks. I hated it."

So whatever you're trying to say with that idealistic statement above, I think the majority of first time videographers would be better off not looking for help here (beyond searching) . The majority of dvxusers are discouraging toward commercial ventures such as wedding videography, and those pride-filled comments make new guys second guess themselves.

"Well if he second guesses himself he was never serious to begin with. I never second guess myself. I'm the bomb."

These are the kinds of critiques that are inevitable.

It's just an opinion. Don't fret over this site not being geared towards that profession and especially don't hold it against anyone if it isn't their bag.

As far as quoting me ? I stick to my opinions. I always am honest and never sugarcoat. Sue me. :violin:

It's just one mans opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have my own little wedding videography business and shoot shorts as well. The wedding business isn't exactly a dream job, but the longer I do it, the more I realize how wonderful it is as a training ground to work with the equipment in such a tense environment. It forces you to constantly make decisions on the fly, and you learn what works, what doesn't work, and what you are good at. It is a crash course in audio, composition, editing, lighting, and the list can go on and on.

It's true that most weddings are awful and unoriginal, but that doesn't mean that you have to follow. Your vision and enthusiasm dictate how impressive and powerful photojournalistic work can be.

I remember reading about how Scorcese said he benefitted as a filmmaker by shooting The Last Waltz, which in essence, was just filming an event.

Lastly, I have to mention how important it is to learn how to size up a situation and critical think on how to shoot it in the shortest amount of time. As time goes on, you learn how to align yourself with finding a story in the chaos. They are there, but you have to develop some serious observational skills. This isn't so different than dealing with a film set.

I used to be secretly ashamed as running a one-man business that got most of my work in weddings. As time goes on, though, I feel lucky that I have had the opportunity to be forced to constantly be sharpening my chops without letting them atrophy.

The quote, "Life is what happens when you are busy making other plans" always seems to resurface when I get frustrated. As a videographer, I am a lucky dude cause my work is constantly improving. Sure, it isn't a feature film, but I still have an audience, and they will watch it for the rest of their life if its really good.

AND you make your own freakin schedule! Nobody to answer to, and you get the winters' off to shoot a film every year.

Well put. If it works for you, fabulous.

=

My sentiments are with any 'film / video / shooting gig' outside of the ultimate goal. It is not a stab at the niche itself and especially not towards any person.

I recently did some BTS for a show; Yawn is about what I got out of it.

 

[Knoxworth]

It falls into the "if you don't have anything nice to say" category. And those aren't actual quotes from anybody. Just an amalgamation of everything I've seen in those threads.

You're welcome to say whatever you want. And I' m welcome to say that since everyone is welcome to say whatever they want, that wedding threads are doomed.

The problem isn't people trying to be unfriendly. The problem is people who feel obligated to post about anything and everything even when their involvement in the subject is less than enthusiastic... less than constructive... less than human

 

[DivotDan]

It falls into the "if you don't have anything nice to say" category. And those aren't actual quotes from anybody. Just an amalgamation of everything I've seen in those threads.

You're welcome to say whatever you want. And I' m welcome to say that since everyone is welcome to say whatever they want, that wedding threads are doomed.

The problem isn't people trying to be unfriendly. The problem is people who feel obligated to post about anything and everything even when their involvement in the subject is less than enthusiastic... less than constructive... less than human

And the award for best actress in what turned out to be way too much drama, .........Knoxworth!


Dude, a critique is a critique and its part of what usually makes people better. If you can't take it on the chin then what are you doing here. Last time I checked when someone shoots something that rules, you get a lot of praise too.

Based on your theory we should remove all the categories and have one "Everyone play nice and BS each other" catagory. Seriously?

If the people want it and know what will happen when they post then let 'em. No need to assume the worst before it starts.

 

[AloysiusK]

I think as long as someone is constructive or thoughtful in their posts, and doesn't make attacks personal, it's fair game.

 

[J.R. Hudson]

And the award for best actress in what turned out to be way too much drama, .........Knoxworth!


Dude, a critique is a critique and its part of what usually makes people better. If you can't take it on the chin then what are you doing here. Last time I checked when someone shoots something that rules, you get a lot of praise too.

Based on your theory we should remove all the categories and have one "Everyone play nice and BS each other" catagory. Seriously?

If the people want it and know what will happen when they post then let 'em. No need to assume the worst before it starts.

Jesus

I agree

Let it go.

Are we all here to be nice or be honest ? I've had people say 'Dude, I just did not get what you were doing with this ... ;

and I breathed it. I got it and learned something. If someone isn;t telling me I screwed up, then I probably am doing something wrong

Really, your taking it all wrong.

Less than human ? Over a wedding video critique ?

Come on.

 

[Barry_Green]

I can see where Knoxworth is coming from, and while I may not agree with the wording he chose, I think there's some validity in his sentiments.

I mean, if someone doesn't care about wedding videos, why not just have them stay out of the wedding video section? If I'm reading him right, Knoxworth is saying that having a wedding video section is going to be troublesome because there's going to be those who inevitably feel that they are "superior" and will want to come over and crap on the wedding guys. Which is pathetic and lame, because there is a *massive* market segment of wedding/event shooters, who are living the life of independent businesspeople doing what they want and making livings off of their gear. They're professionals and should be treated as such.

So it seems really simple: *if* we have a wedding/event section, and someone has nothing useful to contribute to that section, is it really too much to ask 'em to just stay out? We don't allow threadcrapping anywhere else, so why would anyone expect us to allow it here?

And that ain't talking about critiques. That's talking about the ... well, "racism" is probably not the right word but I can't think of a better word right now, so I'll use it -- the racism that some shooters seem compelled to show against other shooters just because those other shooters shoot (oooh, shudder...) wedding videos. Or news. Or corporate videos. Or video news releases. Or televisions commercials, or infomercials, or training videos, or anything else that isn't whatever they think is the one true form of shooting.

Now, that has nothing (NOTHING) to do with critiques. If we're talking about critiques of someone's work, then hey, a critique is fair game. If someone makes a lousy wedding video, and posts it for responses, they can expect to get some lousy responses.

But anyone who responds with anything like (as Knoxworth said he expects people to) "Dude if I ever did weddings I'd kill myself" or whatever, is just cluttering up an otherwise useful forum with noise and counterproductive garbage.

DVXUser should have a thriving business section, so people can discuss ways to make a living using this gear. And they should be able to talk about it freely without being hassled or razed.

 

[Drew Ott]

Well put Barry, as always.

I agree with all of that.

...and I still vote for the wedding section.

 

[Jared Meyer]

Very well said and I completely agree. Thank you for posting that, Barry.

 

[Jared Meyer]

The elitist attitude is baseless and is pretty easily spotted for what it is. It has appeared a little even in this thread since it was started, but I'd just chalk that up to it being in the cafe, where people saw the poll why they were cruising by - having absolutely nothing to do with weddings or events, but feeling they could chime in for whatever reason....cuz it's the cafe, I dunno.

Maybe I am an optimist, but I thought about it more, and I don't think the wedding/event sub-forum frequenters would be harrassed. It's a specific group of folks that it'd be appealing to - everyone else would never even peek inside. If someone really couldn't resist the urge to cruise over to the wedding forum and talk trash about those guy's chosen field of work, well, he'd be instantly spotted and probably dealt with accordingly...having identified himself as a "racist" dvxuser Which, as Barry put very well, is not at all what this site is about.

In general, actually, I'd say that we all could stand to try to avoid adding to the "noise" and the "clutter." I'm guilty of it too, probably, but we should second guess ourselves as to whether our input on a given topic in a particular sub-forum is intelligent, helpful or even necessary.

 

[Knoxworth]

Thanks Barry

 

[J.R. Hudson]

I think you've really made much about nothing

I'd make the same 'kill myself...' comment about being an accountant, but I doubt my brother the accountant would take any offense.

I also think worrying about transient traffic from 'Non Weddingoraphers' is silly. We have sub-forums in here for many topics people are not generally interested in but that doesn't (Won't) stop people in the community from sticking their heads in to say hi.

A sub-forum for weddings ? Bleh. Sounds better suited for a Wedding site. Then people will want sub-sub forums on other wedding event topics and on and on ...

Here's an idea KNOX

If you build it, they will come.

 

[Knoxworth]

Undercutting videography is your own mistake. I took it up because it helps hone the craft of documentary filmmaking.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

My two cents - as if anyone cared:

This site is a community, and for good or for bad that's what keeps me coming back.
The best way to split a community up into smaller cliques is to subdivide the forums too much.
We've seen it happen to other sites that grew too large and wound up with 10,000 subforums that wind up feeling like the hedge maze in the Shining.

Wedding Videography is a business like any other.
We have a 'Business Forum' now.
So, where is the problem?

Will people who don't shoot weddings respond to a wedding video thread?
Of course! That happens all the time here already with threads of different topics and it's part of what makes this site great.

I shot weddings for about 10 years of my life, and I've used alot of that knowledge to help people on here with things that had nothing to do with weddings. And on the flip side - I got many ideas for how to improve the wedding videos I was shooting from people here who wouldn't do a wedding video if their life depended on it.

My point is - we all have different aims, background, talents and goals.
And that is exactly what keeps this place thriving.
Splitting the board up too much into people with similar projects or goals only serves to split up the community.

I love nothing more than when I get some piece of insight from someone who comes from a totally different background with totally different experiences. Often times, those are the people who will give you the best feedback possible, because they are thinking outside of the box that you don't even realize you're in.

Alright - I'm rambling and unfocused here.
But the point is - we have a business section.
If someone wants to post something related to their business - they can do it there.
It's very simple - all that needs to be done is to change the tagline to the existing business forum that we have.

Like I said - just my 2 cents.
:thumbsup:

 

[J.R. Hudson]

Undercutting videography ?

When did I do that ?


Oh my. :undecided

==

Great post Luis

 

[Knoxworth]

Just when you added to the argument by saying you'd cry if you ever found yourself filming weddings. Don't worry about it. I appreciated the PM. I'm willing to admit that I've been playing devil's advocate a little and portraying a skewed opinion I never would have conjured in person.

I had to remind myself that before I filmed three weddings myself I hated what I had seen of videography. Set up 3 tripods and 3 cameras, switch back and forth. All you ever see is the back of someone's head. Lame transitions.

To me, documenting a wedding is really no different than documentary filmmaking. There's no narrator or anything but its just as challenging to get your shots. And the most positive aspect is knowing that your audience includes the children of the bride and groom, who'll be able to watch their folks get hitched for years to come.

 

[Jared Meyer]

Luis - your concerns about the site and the community becoming too fractured with the addition of more sub-forums are valid, and I completely see where you're coming from.

However, the addition of new sub-forums has happened over the past few years, and I would argue that there is not yet a section conducive to the discussion of wedding/event video production. There is a place for narrative projects (User Films) documentary projects, and Business/Post (which is more for funding and distribution, you'll have to admit) but nothing for the particular field of event/wedding videography. Which as Barry has stated, is realistically one of the most common ways the users here are making money with their cameras.

Again, Luis, I see where you're coming from, and Jarred/Barry et al will have to judge the pros and cons. But I really don't see more sub-forums being created ad infinitum. I think this sub-forum is one that would be well appreciated and put to good use - as in further helping interested dvxusers to get together and share wedding/event specific tips on running their business, marketing, dealing with clients, shooting, editing, etc.

Also, both you and John have reiterated the idea that nothing will stop non-wedding/event shooters from stopping by and saying hi. That is not in the slightest what Barry, Knoxworth, myself and others are concerned with. Of course cross-pollination of ideas is always welcomed and enjoyed in any of the forums here!

The concern, and I think it was elucidated pretty well, was that there would be members who might feel the need to disparage the profession and gum up an otherwise productive forum - as has been demonstrated in the past, both elsewhere and in this very thread.

 

[Scott F]

Crap, do a few years of these wedding videos and it will literally FORCE you to elevate your craft. It's like a "scared straight" program.

I don't know how many more times I can hear "Brown Eyed Girl" or "Play That Funky Music White Boy" before I DO "kill myself". Sorry, long, boring night yesterday. :furious3:

See, this is why we need that forum: To vent with stupid stories & rants. And I've got plenty.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

Crap, do a few years of these wedding videos and it will literally FORCE you to elevate your craft. It's like a "scared straight" program.

I don't know how many more times I can hear "Brown Eyed Girl" or "Play That Funky Music White Boy" before I DO "kill myself". Sorry, long, boring night yesterday. :furious3:

See, this is why we need that forum: To vent with stupid stories & rants. And I've got plenty.

I was just telling my wife last night that because of all the wedding videos I've done I can't stand to hear "Brown Eyed Girl"
I swear it doesn't matter where I am, if I hear that song I instantly feel very very annoyed.

Side effects of the job I guess.


Jared - all valid points and concerns. It cuts both ways I suppose and we may just have to agree to disagree. I really think we all want the same thing here, but perhaps are seeing things from different vantage points. As far as the concern of people posting unwelcome comments and the like - that's why we have moderators. People post rude things all the time on these boards, and the mods take care of it when they have to. Most of the time I think the community does a pretty good job of self moderating.

I guess I just don't see the problem with lumping all 'businesses' into one forum.
As soon as we have a 'Weddings' forum, then we'll have a 'Love Story' forum and a 'Family Reunion' forum....

Then again, I'm old and resistant to change.
I still long for the old days of flow and clunks - so what do I know.


I'm certain Jared and his army of moderators will come up with a Solomon-like solution that will please the masses.

 

[AloysiusK]

What's the big deal? If people wants a wedding section, let them have one. It's not like you'll visit anyway?

I think this is a lot of fuss over nothing.

It reminds me of that SNL sketch, "The Herlihy Boy, or something like that with Chris Farley and Adam Sandler. "Let the boy water your plants!"

 

[Jason Ramsey]

Wedding videos are money. And money using your equipment. I don't wanna do 'em, though At least not very many, and unless the price is very right.

My couple o' pence concerning a wedding section. It makes sense, but.... I don't see enough traffic in terms of queries about weddings to warrant one. I kinda like seeing it being 'mixed in' with the rest of the forum.... I like watching the occasional wedding clip in the grabs sections, and seeing a real nice one now and again... seeing someone doing something different with it. Being creative.

In all honesty, some of the better advice I have come across about weddingography has been on this site. Then again, I don't typically go looking around for it too much either...

I don't know. Seems like there is a lot of demand b/c a lot of folks here are paying the bills doing it, but it doesn't seem as though there is enough traffic... Just my itty bitty opinion. Personally, though... it doesn't bother me one bit either way... I like the filmmaking emphasis that we try to maintain, and that many here aspire towards. And, I like folks sharing the work that they are diong that is paying the bills, and sharing q's and a's about it.... But, I like that we talk about cameras (too much) and movies most of the time.

Later,
Jason