Where is the best HVX200 deal right now?

[Emanuel]

Many many of Fly by night companies have contacted me willing to pay my rent if i push thier unauthorized DVX's.. and I always turn them down. They usually get really mad then go away. Heck I even have turned down some authorized dealers away because I know they have treated my users wrong.

I will never advertise an unauthorized dealer on DVXuser.. because i hold my self morally responsible for who i direct people too.. kinda like if you told your best friend to buy a camera from B43 DIgital NY and they ripped him off.. it would reflect bad on you.

:thumbup:

:thumbsup:

 

[Osmicata]

Cool please do post new info, I assure you there are other PAL DVXusers waiting to hear info. The only Expandore I know is the Singapore office. I have never heard anything bad about them. In fact, if you do a search here, you will see a lot of positive feedback. Make sure you read the whole thread, since at first it appears they are not a good dealer, but then others jump on and say they have done business with them.

Thanks again, Rush, I will. Trouble in principle is with taxes, home customs have a very different oppinion on what "several hundred bucks" mean . So I would probably prefer going to UK or some other place with good deal and fly it myself. Damn, if it was not for the stupid PAL needs around here I would buy the NTSC in a flash. After all it has all I need: 24 p ... who knows if it turns that NTSC = EVS deal and PAL = after tax VAT and profit rip off approx SDX900 then screw PAL, go 24 p and eventually convert all NTSC for PAL for local customers (It would not be pretty, obviously). I do not know

 

[AppliedVisual]

If you're shooting 24p, the HVX's resolution is noticeably higher than the XLH1's.

Really? I do hope so... Even though DVCPROHD is encoded at 1280x1080 and Canon is encoding their HDV at 1440x1080... A lot still has to do with how the CCDs scan and the signal is processed into the actual image. But hey, I guess I'm just sitting here looking at XLH1 footage and still waiting (I'm trying to be patient, hehe) for more HVX200 footage. The only raw HVX stuff out there that I know about is the tradeshow floor clips. I have them here, but haven't seen them yet as I don't have DVCPROHD available via QT on any of my PCs. But I trust your judgement.

 

[Barry_Green]

The encoded frame size isn't nearly as important as you would think. For example, the JVC encodes 1280x720, the Sony encodes 1440x1080, yet the JVC can resolve and record just as much detail as the Sony does.

In 24F mode, the Canon loses about 150 to 200 lines of resolution. The HVX doesn't. So the HVX retains full vertical res (and both formats record 1080 lines, so the question is directly applicable) while the Canon gives up 150 to 200 lines.

 

[Rush]

In 24F mode, the Canon loses about 150 to 200 lines of resolution. The HVX doesn't. So the HVX retains full vertical res (and both formats record 1080 lines, so the question is directly applicable) while the Canon gives up 150 to 200 lines.

Holy Cow Barry, that's major! I had no idea...
Well, that and, where are you going to play back 24F? :embarasse Off the acquisition camera; certainly not a simple file transfer like off a P2 or P2-Store.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

In 24F mode, the Canon loses about 150 to 200 lines of resolution. The HVX doesn't. So the HVX retains full vertical res (and both formats record 1080 lines, so the question is directly applicable) while the Canon gives up 150 to 200 lines.

How did you arrive at that?
Have you been able to shoot res charts with both cameras?
I'm not challenging you here, just curious.

From what has been said before it sounds like it would be hard to test the Canon in 24F by shooting a res chart, as the drop is res would be much more aparrent in motion than it would on a static frame (that's what was said at one point, not sure I understood the logic seeing as the "24F" thing is a bit of a mystery).

I suppose the number of pixels on the CCD would play into that equation too, woudln't it? I mean, if the Canon loses 150-200 lines, but (hypothetically) the HVX starts out with much fewer pixels, I suppose it could be a wash, couldn't it?
I mean, mathematically it sounds great to say that the Canon loses 150-200 lines and the HVX doesn't lose any, but doesn't it matter what res they start with? I understand that they both record 1080 lines, but it seems that it would matter HOW they got to those 1080 lines to begin with.

Just curious where the numbers came from.

 

[Barry_Green]

How did you arrive at that?
Have you been able to shoot res charts with both cameras?

I've shot with the HVX, yes. I didn't shoot the Canon charts, but Pete Bauer has one, and he shot the same chart in 60i and 24f and reported the differences, and posted his charts. He got around 600 lines in 24F.
http://www.geosynchrony.com/scratchpad.htm#The_XL_H1_is_here!

David Newman also reported getting lower res in 24F, although he said he got around 650 lines.

Here's Pete's 24F chart:
http://www.geosynchrony.com/images/Scratchpad/H1%2024F%20rez2%20HD-20x.bmp

Here's his 60i chart:
http://www.geosynchrony.com/images/Scratchpad/H1%2060i%20rez2%20HD-20x.bmp

From what has been said before it sounds like it would be hard to test the Canon in 24F by shooting a res chart, as the drop is res would be much more aparrent in motion than it would on a static frame (that's what was said at one point, not sure I understood the logic seeing as the "24F" thing is a bit of a mystery).

I wouldn't think so -- I'm pretty sure 24F is either a single field being interpolated to two, or a resurrection of the famous "Frame Mode" technique. In either case it should apply static/consistent resolution.

Well, yes, as I think about it, of course you have a point there as well -- the very, very best that HDV will ever perform is on a static res chart. However, I think the 24F mode is probably robust enough that it's not likely to fall apart with some motion in the frame, I think it's reasonably solid from what I've seen, and from what I've been able to speculate as to how it works.

I suppose the number of pixels on the CCD would play into that equation too, woudln't it? I mean, if the Canon loses 150-200 lines, but (hypothetically) the HVX starts out with much fewer pixels, I suppose it could be a wash, couldn't it?

Depends on the ultimate resolving power of the lens and chips. Having more pixels than you can resolve does you no favors. The Sony has 1080 pixels tall, but resolves a maximum (on a good day with a strong tailwind) of 780 lines of detail. So what do the other ~300 pixels buy it?

The HVX is noticeably sharper than the Sony. In interlace the Canon may be a match for the HVX, and may actually exceed it as far as luma sharpness goes; I'll have to do a side-by-side to know that for sure. But in 24F vs. 24P? Not a chance. Not when the very "24F" processing is giving back 150 to 200 lines (20 to 25% of the total possible resolution).

I mean, mathematically it sounds great to say that the Canon loses 150-200 lines and the HVX doesn't lose any, but doesn't it matter what res they start with?

Of course it does. But with these 1/3" HD cameras, the limit on res is not determined by the pixel count here, it's determined by the optics and the size of the wavelength of light. It looks to me like both the Canon (in 60i) and the Panasonic, and even the Sony, are maxxing out at around 750-780 lines depending on how generous you want to be in reading the chart. 750 to 780 lines, regardless of how many CCD pixels they start with. When going to 24P, the Canon gives up around 150 to 200 lines, the Sony gives up 200 lines, and the Panasonic doesn't give up anything.

Ultimate resolution can't be known until the same shooter shoots the same chart to the same standards of framing, views the output on the same monitor, and uses the same subjective viewpoint to analyze the convergence point of the resolution wedges. And that can't really happen until there's a released, serial-numbered HVX on the market.

But eventually we'll do that.

And I'll have more than one set of eyes judging the charts. And I won't tell 'em which chart is from which, either, so they'll inherently give completely unbiased answers. And, of course, the charts will be published for all to see.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

I've shot with the HVX, yes. I didn't shoot the Canon charts, but Pete Bauer has one, and he shot the same chart in 60i and 24f and reported the differences, and posted his charts.

Thanks for the links to the charts.
Seems pretty clear cut.

Did you see Shannon & Nick's F900/XLH1 comparison?
I was a bit bothered by the fact that they didn't post uncompressed frame grabs of the res chart, which of course made me a bit skeptical of their claim that the XLH1 was resolving over 800 lines. (at least I haven't seen any uncompressed res chart stills).

the very, very best that HDV will ever perform is on a static res chart. However, I think the 24F mode is probably robust enough that it's not likely to fall apart with some motion in the frame, I think it's reasonably solid from what I've seen, and from what I've been able to speculate as to how it works.

That's good to know.

Having more pixels than you can resolve does you no favors. The Sony has 1080 pixels tall, but resolves a maximum (on a good day with a strong tailwind) of 780 lines of detail. So what do the other ~300 pixels buy it?

I see your point.
I suppose they could buy you less lattitude and more noise?

with these 1/3" HD cameras, the limit on res is not determined by the pixel count here, it's determined by the optics and the size of the wavelength of light. It looks to me like both the Canon (in 60i) and the Panasonic, and even the Sony, are maxxing out at around 750-780 lines depending on how generous you want to be in reading the chart.

Okay, now I see what you're saying.
Clear as day. Thanks for taking the time to step me through the logic of it.

I can't wait to see the side by side shootout.
A double blind res chart comparison like you described should be very interesting.


Exciting times!
:thumbsup:

 

[bmillen]

Hello:

My son Jim is a student in UNT's (the University of
North Texas) RTVF (Radio, Television, Video, Film)
department. He has been involved with many extracurricular
film projects using his current camera.

He is currently very interested in the Panasonic AG-HVX200
camera. He has worked hard and saved a lot of money. He
is considering ordering the AG-HVX200 camera from Specialized Communications Corp. My "assignment" has been to help him
find out about this company.

Usually I can do WEB searches and find positive or negative
"testimonials" by people who have dealt with various
companies. That effort hasn't turned up much in this case.
Apparently this company markets direct and through Ebay.
They *do* seem to have a very good track record with their
customers on Ebay.

After studying their WEB page I called Andrew Hoffman. I
had a very great chat with him. After the call I sent him
an email that included my "snail mail" address. A few days
later a very helpful, unsolicited packet of information
from him, including a DVD about the camera, turned up in my
mailbox.

Both my son Jim and Andrew had told me about DVXuser.com.
I noticed the following WEB pointer in one of Andrew's
messages in this thread.

http://www.spec-comm.com/References.pdf


I looked in this document for people I could call. None of
the TV stations I found listed were local to the Dallas,
Texas area. I did notice that the University of Texas at
Austin was listed. I called a UT Austin Video Engineer--who
wasn't familiar with Specialized Communications. Just for
grins, I made a similar call to UNT (not listed in the above
document)--with a similar result.

My impression is that Specialized Communications had its
start in the repair and servicing of video equipment. I
did find this recommendation for their repair service in
a different thread on DVXuser.com.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showpost.php?p=149681&postcount=2


Has any other member of DVXuser.com had experience buying
equipment from Specialized Communications? If so, could you
share your experience here? Is that "legal" according to
the rules of this forum?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

--Bob Millen

 

[redindian]

you called so many people to investigate on the company? lol... thats some research!

Well dont worry - Spec Comm is not like those brooklyn operators.. its an authorized panasonic dealer...

They advertize on this site - and 2 of their people regularly post here...(David and Andrew)....

They used to have the cheapest deal around.. not anymore.. AVSupply.com has the cheapest price... $5600 with a 4GB Card... call barbara....

I dont know if they will match the lowest authorized price like EVS (superstar around here)... if they do then its a good deal - if not try AVS

 

[dglasgal]

I started this thread a while ago- hi. We pre-ordered 2 cameras from Specialized Communications in early january for several reasons;

1) because they had the best price,
2) because they were giving a free extra capacity battery with each camera
3) because they were giving a free servicing of the camera at any time for regular maintenence
4) because they are the developers of the Cineporter external P2 storage hard drive and they know their stuff and lastly
5) they are offering 10% off the Cineporter when it comes out, and I just found out, priority for customers who bought their HVX's through them

We just got them this week and are very happy with their service. I'm not sure where, or what the best deal is right now, but everything from Spec-comm is grade A and legit, they seem to be ahead of the curve on p2 development and they have great customer service.

I didn't mind the wait, because there was no way I would ever buy a p2 card, too expensive compared to options like the firestore or the Cineporter. We'll rent until they come out. In my opinion p2 cards are great for run-and gun stuff, but for longer format shooting, the cineporter is really going to make the HVX a cost effective, on set production time-effective purchase.

 

[Spec-Comm]

David, thank you for taking the time and sharing your experience with us and sticking it out through the pre-order process. Most of our clients are in the broadcast community, so it's nice to hear from someone who is also a part of this forum.

Thank you again for your business and enjoy your cameras,

David