Where is Panasonic in this game?

[mcbob]

Considering that's an entirely EXTREME end of telephoto range, it doesn't seem like it's a problem for the 99.9999999%

That's like saying, "This camera sucks in low light. I walked into a closet and shut the door an it's really hard to see anything, even at the highest ISO."

Too funny... I had a scientific shoot a couple months ago in a photographic darkroom, with only that dim, DIM overhead red light. Introducing any extra light would have ruined the process. Had to operate with the LCD closed, taped up the power and tally lights, couldn't even see the menu buttons on the back of the camera. The hacked GH2 performed brilliantly for that

But back to the original point, I personally don't care what is or isn't a problem for the 99.999% unless they're doing my work for me. If it's a problem for me, that's all that matters in my personal decisions, kind of like if I had an arrow stuck through my pancreas... most people's lives would be unaffected, but I would be rather pressed to find a solution.

The GH2 doesn't suck, it just doesn't work well for that particular necessary-to-me application. However, you can extend that problem (to a lesser but very real degree) to simpler everyday things like walking backwards handheld to follow persons of interest, quicker less-telephoto animal/vehicle/vegetable tracking (kudzu grows fast), and sports, which are things people tend to point cameras at with some regularity.

 

[TheDingo]

I shot it handheld with some movement and I got way to much jello than I like.

...Was the jello caused by you or the camera ?

i.e. If you shot it with a tripod / monopod / balanced shoulder mount / etc... would the results have been the same ?

I have learned the hard way that any camera I shoot with needs to be stabilized for hand held video work, and that I can't reliably hand hold with any lens much longer than a short telephoto lens, which would be 50mm with the GH-2. IS helps a lot, but shaky camera movement does not create great images.

 

[Erik Naso]

...Was the jello caused by you or the camera ?

i.e. If you shot it with a tripod / monopod / balanced shoulder mount / etc... would the results have been the same ?

I have learned the hard way that any camera I shoot with needs to be stabilized for hand held video work, and that I can't reliably hand hold with any lens much longer than a short telephoto lens, which would be 50mm with the GH-2. IS helps a lot, but shaky camera movement does not create great images.

I shoot handheld all the time without stabilization with the AF-100 and get very good results.
I wouldn’t call it shaky camera for the sake of bad cinematography. Please. I was walking, panning over from the back of a news camera op, pretty basic slow stuff I have done with the AF-100 many times. no whip pans or earthquake shots. Used a Voigtlander 25mm. I did a bunch of different stuff and I got what I need. And the good stuff looked pretty darn good.
I didn’t want a locked down shot for this particular shoot. I now know I cant do these kind of shots without skew on the GH2. Thats it.

 

[TheDingo]

I now know I cant do these kind of shots without skew on the GH2. Thats it.

Thanks for the update. I have used both cameras, but I've never compared them for skew. ( I know that Barry has stated many times that the AF-100 has a lot less skew )

 

[Barry_Green]

That's what I've found as well... I've been doing some ultra-long-lens wildlife stuff lately, and gravitated towards my GH2 as being simpler to rig on a tripod-supported lens and also having that occasional nifty ETC mode. While it works fairly well in 720 modes, I've been very unimpressed by the jello in 1080... even the most macho tripod has a hard time taming this at 1000-2600mm.

If you ever find yourself needing to do this again with a GH2, by all means use the ETC mode. Sure it's a little softer and noisier, but the jello performance is hugely improved.

 

[mcbob]

If you ever find yourself needing to do this again with a GH2, by all means use the ETC mode. Sure it's a little softer and noisier, but the jello performance is hugely improved.

I've noticed this as well... better rolling shutter but definitely noise and resolution loss.

 

[Berk]

back to topic: "where is Pan in this game?"
IMOH i don't expect any new cam from Pan at NAB.

Panasonic 2012 Q3: $9 billion loss, Sanyo writedowns, restructuring



Details here on engadget

 

[jmarkham]

They'll get it back together. It was a particularly tough time in Japan this year.

 

[spotts]

Not to ask too much here, but how about a bit more dynamic range. Couple of stops would be great. Just one would suffice. As the monkey said just before his tail was cut off...'it won't be long now." Hopefully technology at the current pace will make this a reality soon. Just some wishful thinking........

 

[Kholi]

If you ever find yourself needing to do this again with a GH2, by all means use the ETC mode. Sure it's a little softer and noisier, but the jello performance is hugely improved.

Try ETC mode on Hack. Definitely not softer to my eyes, and I'd like to see what people think about the aliasing (which seems to be at it's very very minimum... VERY.) It's swiftly becoming my favorite mode to use! Noisey, though, yeah. You basically have up to 640 ISO before it's crawling too bad.

160's pretty darn cleanish.

And yes, Jello is definitely massively improved.

 

[Kholi]

Kholi- is the hair something a pro mist would prevent? How bad is it?

Will try to cut at least 30 seconds of some of this stuff and throw it up on vimeo.

More stills for now.


Zeiss Ultra Prime 24 @ 4 | ISO 160? (I think, it might've been 200 | ND .9 | Soft FX 1 (full) | Standard -2 -2 -2 -2 | 1080/24







Same as above.

Pretty sold on Standard with cinema runner up. Tried Dynamic randomly today, too much sharpening in the curve.

Soft FX 1 does help a lot with the aliasing, and GH2 still rocks it on resolution.

So, Panasonic find a middle ground between the AF100 OLPF and GH2's, a tiny bit of aliasing that can be cured with softening filters, and an update 4/3 sensor with ETC mode option and I'll use your 'prosumer' large sensor camera.

Deal?

 

[TheDingo]

Will try to cut at least 30 seconds of some of this stuff and throw it up on vimeo.

...Just out of curiosity, have you tried the Tiffen Black Pro Mist instead of their Soft FX ?

 

[Barry_Green]

Aliasing is definitely much improved in ETC mode.

 

[bruceallen]

Aliasing is definitely much improved in ETC mode.

Right, right! Ah man, can't wait for Panasonic to get the sensor readout and processing power to the point where they can do ETC mode-level quality but across the whole sensor to make a nice >HD image!

Will try to cut at least 30 seconds of some of this stuff and throw it up on vimeo.

Beautiful stuff, man! Veeeery nice. Better skintones and sense of life than quite a few of the shots of girls on Red's reel on their fancy 4K Sony and Barco projectors (though admittedly I think they need to update the reel!).

Shooting 720p60? Yep, gimme this but at higher resolution please, Panasonic. RAW would be nice but if you have someone like Kholi doing it, it's not always necessary

RE: aliasing... I think that as processors get faster and Panasonic starts downsampling from the full thing, aliasing characteristics will change. I'd rather they just got work on processing power than futz around more with different OLPFs to counteract for pixel binning or whatever...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Kholi]

Right, right! Ah man, can't wait for Panasonic to get the sensor readout and processing power to the point where they can do ETC mode-level quality but across the whole sensor to make a nice >HD image!

Indeed. Or, someone tell RED to release their 2/3" Mini primes and we'll just re-purpose them. =P

Shooting 720p60? Yep, gimme this but at higher resolution please, Panasonic. RAW would be nice but if you have someone like Kholi doing it, it's not always necessary

RE: aliasing... I think that as processors get faster and Panasonic starts downsampling from the full thing, aliasing characteristics will change. I'd rather they just got work on processing power than futz around more with different OLPFs to counteract for pixel binning or whatever...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

xD I'm just hacking my way to better skill. I see your point about processing power. The OLPF thing could maybe be an "upgrade" and a path to an AF100-A model or so. But, going forward, deal with the real issue at hand.

What's also interesting is how much I actually like the slightly oversized 4/3" sensor. At first blush it always seems like it's a negative, the more I use the GH2 the less I miss the gains of an APS-C sized sensor, and I'm beginning to appreciate the benefits of being able to find faster, sharper, and cheaper glass. If you really want a larger sensor, why settle for APS-C/S35ish? Why not go APS-H or Full Frame?

Just musing, though. There's a place for every format as long as someone wants to use it. I rather like the 4/3" world now, though.

Aliasing is definitely much improved in ETC mode.

Maybe, possibly, the "softer" look is just less aliasing going into the image? SHooting with the Zeiss Ultras and getting to a 4~5.6, hair was super fine and distinct. Sadly, as you noted earlier, it's noisy. Light is a must.

Wonder if the AF100 or future 4/3" bodies could include this very awesome feature.

Could see a new market for S16 lenses popping up. :B

...Just out of curiosity, have you tried the Tiffen Black Pro Mist instead of their Soft FX ?

I have a 1/2 77mm Black Pro-mist, but haven't experimented with anything heavier than that in circular or 4x5 format. I'd like to, though, especially after seeing how well the full soft FX worked and how much the GH2 still managed to pull after that. The 1/2 definitely wasn't strong enough.

 

[Erik Naso]

Good stuff Kholi! I’m going to try ETC out on my GH2. This place just keeps on giving!

 

[groveChuck]

More stills for now.

Great grabs man! Look forward to seeing them in motion on Vimeo! :thumbsup:

 

[Gary Huff]

Good stuff Kholi! I’m going to try ETC out on my GH2.

ETC mode on the GH2 makes the Tokina useable as an all-around lens. I had to switch it out every time on a project with the Canon because it was great for the wide, but I had to switch it out with a 30mm for any kind of close-up so I wouldn't have to put the camera right up in someone's face.

I used the Tokina on the music video I shot last weekend, and I rarely took it off.

 

[Kholi]

I freakin' love ETC mode... I think I already said that, though.

Seriously, I'm rooting for Panasonic now... they're always taking notes, I'm sure people see what the GH2's up too and how the market's shifting. Oversized 4/3 is pretty cool to me, improvements here are welcomed and I'd be happy to jump back onto the train.

 

[Erik Naso]

ETC mode on the GH2 makes the Tokina useable as an all-around lens. I had to switch it out every time on a project with the Canon because it was great for the wide, but I had to switch it out with a 30mm for any kind of close-up so I wouldn't have to put the camera right up in someone's face.

I used the Tokina on the music video I shot last weekend, and I rarely took it off.

Your talking about the 11-16 right.

Does ETC double the focal distance? That’s what it looks like.