where have the filmmakers gone?

Stephen Mick said:
I'd also like to hear what you'd like to see from us as site moderators. Do we need to take the focus away from cameras (as it has come to be) and return the focus to craft and technique? How can we re-connect with the filmmaking soul of DVXUser?
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Josh Bass said:
I, to this day, do not understand the search tool on this site. You search for something that you know was in a thread title three days ago, but get results going back 10 years ago NOT including the one you want.
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Yes, the best investment that the moderators could make would be to move DVXUser to better forum software:

Tags
  • tag threads instead of putting them in subforums. Instead of having to choose just one subforum folder, I could tag a thread about lenses for the AF100 as both "AF100" and "Lenses".
  • then the home page could be customized as the latest threads in each tag, or you could customize it to show specific tags that you're interested in
  • you could always search by tag

Search
  • search that is decent
  • no search time-out (what is this, 1999?)
  • sort results by post date but let you re-sort them by something else

Display
  • a page layout that puts the text of each post as most important. The rest (avatars, signatures, forum control cruft) should be smaller, take up less space (for example, see Hacker News)
  • more than 10 posts per page (what is this, 1999?) and a max of greater than 40 posts per page (if y'all haven't found out how to raise it to 40, you're missing out)
  • threaded replies (maybe, only if the indentation isn't too wide, see Slashdot as an example of how to do it right)
  • distributed moderation that works better (again, the best example is Slashdot, where perhaps dozens of members get moderation privileges for a few days at a time, if they themselves have a history of posts being marked as helpful)

Wiki
  • really, I think any forum should be paired with a wiki, for the community to put together tribal knowledge, to quickly answer that 100th post about what microphone to get, by giving them just a link. Stickies kind of serve this purpose but don't let the community keep it as tidy and well-organized as a genuine wiki
 
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Stephen Mick said:
I'm quoting you here, Josh, but please don't take my comments as being aimed at you personally. This is most definitely not an attack on you. I've checked out your shorts and your YouTube channel, and you've made enough shorts to stand apart from what I'm about to say.

I hear these opinions shared quite a bit lately. They generally boil down to… A) Filmmaking is hard. B) Without an audience, it's just not worth it.

The more I think about these as the reasons for the decline of filmmaking, the more confused I get. Sure, filmmaking can be an arduous affair. It can be expensive. It requires a level of effort and commitment that few other artistic pursuits call for. It requires a degree of collaboration that exceeds ANY other art form I can think of. And it can be frustrating to dedicate that amount of time, effort, and creativity to something that might only get seen by a handful of people.

But at the end of the day, the best filmmakers make films NOT because it's easy, or because they're looking to build a fanbase or monetize their art. The filmmakers I know and have talked to make films because they can't imagine not making films. There's something that burns deep inside them, and the only real outlet they see to share that heat and light is film. I have good friends who are stand-up comedians. When I asked them why they do what they do, they look at me like I'm speaking another language. They do what they do because that is who they are, at their very core. To NOT do that thing would be to deny what they are, to ignore the creative fire that sustains them. And that is an option that they just can't even see.

And believe me, I don't hold myself up as a true filmmaker. I'd like to be, and I've carved out a niche that allows me to respect the creative fire inside me while still making a living doing what I do. But I'm lazier than I'd like to be sometimes. I lose touch with my love of storytelling at times, and when I come back to it, I always have the same epiphany: that THIS is what I should be doing. And then I don't do it. Life gets in the way. Things happen.

I guess what I'm saying is this… Filmmakers make films. When they don't have the resources they'd like, they find a way to tell a story. They realize that the things that make a story compelling are the things that have always brought people together. Character revealed through action. Motive revealed through conflict. These things don't change, and they likely never will. Their focus is on telling a fascinating story, regardless of theme or genre. I believe that if we start from that point and work from idea to execution, we are all capable of making a great film.
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That's all fair. I guess I don't see myself as someone compelled to make films or die. . .I believe artists of any genre want an audience. I mean, I realize there are people that just draw or paint or play music by themselves and couldn't care less, but for most of us? Ain't buyin' it. Something like a film, especially--it's meant to be seen. To me it's really weird to just make films because you HAVE TO, even if no one ever sees them. It's a strong person (stronger than I) that can do that repeatedly without getting discouraged and feeling like they're wasting their life. If I received that encouragement, it'd probably keep me going. Without it, what's the point?

I think it's a sad state when things like vines replace narrative comedy even in short form. Yes, most comedic things could use a lot more brevity. . .but 6 seconds is a bit much.
 
Josh Bass said:
That's all fair. I guess I don't see myself as someone compelled to make films or die. . .I believe artists of any genre want an audience. I mean, I realize there are people that just draw or paint or play music by themselves and could care less, but something like a film? It's meant to be seen. To me it's really weird to just make films because you HAVE TO, even if no one ever sees them. It's a strong person (stronger than I) that can do that repeatedly without getting discouraged and feeling like they're wasting their life. If I received that encouragement, it'd probably keep me going. Without it, what's the point?

I think it's a sad state when things like vines replace narrative comedy even in short form. Yes, most comedic things could use a lot more brevity. . .but 6 seconds is a bit much.
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Again, I didn't mean that to come across as a comment on you personally, Josh. So I hope you didn't take it as such.

And I absolutely agree that artists WANT an audience. But I don't necessarily think that, for them, finding the audience is the goal. That's largely a by-product of making something compelling, telling an interesting story. I also think that these folks would find an outlet for their stories one way or another. If it wasn't film, it would be writing, or dance, or anything that allows them to share the stories that drive them.

Ultimately I think the goal is different for everyone. For some, making genre shorts at home with friends on nights and weekends is enough. They enjoy the craft, and the joy comes from sharing both the experience and the final product. But maybe it isn't meant for any higher purpose, and that's okay. If that's enough for them, then they've satisfied the creative outlet they were looking for.

Others might want to achieve something larger with their films or their art. Perhaps someone wants to grow into being a working screenwriter. For them, it certainly makes sense to understand what the marketplace and the audience is looking for from the films they consume.

But in both scenarios, story should ideally be the engine. A good story, well-told, is going to elevate both filmmakers to another level of craft.
 
When I had that unquenchable passion that Stephen Mick talks about, I still needed an audience --- even if it was just my friends. I suppose if the fire came back, my Facebook friends or a few hundred Youtube subscribers would be enough. There are the one-hit wonders on Youtube. But also pockets of community can be formed around a channel, or a group of channels, about a particular topic of interest.

But if you have Youtube subscribers, you need to keep publishing videos. We could maybe go back to the old serial format that novelists like Charles Dickens used. He didn't publish Great Expectations all at once. He did it like a chapter at a time in a magazine, right? So instead of posting a 2-hour movie, you post 12 segments that are 10 minutes each, like once a week or once a month. Just an idea.

---

Just saw this in the news today: Jon Stewart to make short-form daily content for HBO. Stewart will create daily short-form content that will be showcased on the company's streaming outlets HBO Go and HBO Now. "Appearing on television 22 minutes a night clearly broke me. I'm pretty sure I can produce a few minutes of content every now and again."
 
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combatentropy said:
But if you have Youtube subscribers, you need to keep publishing videos. We could maybe go back to the old serial format that novelists like Charles Dickens used. He didn't publish Great Expectations all at once. He did it like a chapter at a time in a magazine, right? So instead of posting a 2-hour movie, you post 12 segments that are 10 minutes each, like once a week or once a month. Just an idea.
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I know some friends doing this now. They are shooting a movie that will be both cut into episodes for streaming/binge consumption that people can pop in and out of as they like to consume and then combining into a complete movie for another platform.

These days each content platform has a slightly different way of how users consume content and you need to provide the way the audience wants it for the intended platform. I can't say I've ever sat down and watched anything longer than 10mins on youtube.
 
FrameFarmMedia said:
These days each content platform has a slightly different way of how users consume content and you need to provide the way the audience wants it for the intended platform. I can't say I've ever sat down and watched anything longer than 10mins on youtube.
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EXACTLY.
No one will watch anything longer than that - most won't watch anything beyond 2-minutes. Hence VINES. And FuNNy or Die, and Key & Peele.
Short films are an art form without an audience.
 
Interesting thread. Where have the filmmakers gone... I can tell you about my experience because I'm one of the filmmakers. I'm here - I just don't talk about what I do. Why? Why would I?

I can explain, but please, I don't claim that I'm correct in what I'm saying. It's just how I perceive DVXUser based on my limited experience. And please don't get me wrong - I like DVXUser, I check it every day, and get very useful bits of information and wisdom about equipment and some other things. And when I can contribute to those discussion I post.

But now, let's look at most recent threads just from the top:
- Black Sun Problem on A7s II? Faulty Camera or a whole batch?
- Rodelink Interference problem
- C300: wide angle zoom for C300MK2
- Guess what sound this is....
- Issues with noise on the FS700
- Drop in LED Fresnel upgrade
...
- Just got a new camera - Sony F35 (286 Pages!!!)
....
and it goes on an on and on

There are threads where users talk about their films - if they get any attention, from I've seen, very little attention. Often zero response. I'm not complaining. I understand that Sony F35 deserves that many pages of discussion. That's what users are interested in. Moreover, even recently I've seen a couple of threads where users openly say that DVXUser is about equipment. May be I'm wrong, but I don't see any significant interest here in discussing indie films.

Another thing is I remember that on several occasions users were also openly talking about their reluctance to provide any feedback (one of the things that indie filmmakers would be interested in). Why? For various reasons. Like, why would I? it takes time to watch your crappy film and even more time to write about it. I suspect another reason is the combination of political correctness, ego and some other very human feelings - I got this not from DVXUser but from talking to other fiimmakers (and I simply assume that DVXUser is not immune to the human nature).

Filmmakers are there - and I can assure that it's a vibrant and active community. It's just our reluctance to be exposed to certain things. Yes, there is a YouTube phenomenon and whatever comes with it. But filmmakers are there, please make no mistake about it.

I have to confess, I'm also an investor and spend time on reading financial news among other things. It may seem off topic but here is an article By Therese Poletti I found today on MarketWatch: "How a 'third wave' of Silicon Valley leaders is building the future." And here is a small excerpt from it that seems to show some cultural differences in the two industries:
After about a year at young and fast-growing Cisco, Chambers [John Chambers is now executive chairman of Cisco Systems Inc. (CSCO)] felt that he still had more to learn about Silicon Valley, and he reached out to Lew Platt, then CEO of Hewlett-Packard, for advice. They went on to meet every quarter for the next three years. One day, Chambers asked Platt what he could do in return. "I don't want you to do something for H-P," Platt replied. "I want you to do for other young companies what I just did for you." Chambers has gone on to nurture young CEOs including Aaron Levie of Box Inc.(BOX) and John Donahoe of eBay Inc. , and he still hosts meetings and dinners with startup founders.
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I don't know Hollywood. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe John Chambers experience is 100% applicable to Hollywood. But it's certainly not a mainstream in Washington DC metro area where I'm.

So, what's next? Nothing. I truly respect and enjoy DVXUser and its members and members' needs and concerns. Many of them dedicate their lives to the difficult craft and art called cinematography and make their living - they simply are too busy to be involved in filmmaking (or discussing indie filmmaking) - an activity that offers very small chances of getting real money. Meanwhile, I'll keep doing what I'm doing (like next weekend two day of extremely complex production) because I love it and because I can (at least for now with my investment business). Some of us will keep hustle others on Craig list and such for help offering a pathetic "exposure" (condemned and ridiculed not once on DVXUser and probably for a good reason - for the record, I, personally, don't use Craig, and most of what I ask is paid jobs).

Anyways, as I said above, I don't claim to be accurate in my assessment - please correct me where you feel I'm wrong.
 
I'll add three more possible reasons people are less interested in making films. These are NOT the only reasons.


1) Socio-sexuality. Robert Rodriguez told us in 1993 to start calling ourselves filmmakers even before we had done anything. So for two decades, every douchebag in thick rimmed glasses was calling himself a filmmaker. Now you're just one douchebag in a sea of douchebags. Women in bars started to hear "filmmaker" and think "unemployed." You sure as f*ck can't support a wife and kids as an aspiring auteur, and now it can't even support a one night stand. I do better with girls telling them I shoot weddings than I do when I say I make movies. At least that means I have an income and my risk of being clinically delusional is a little lower.


2) Magical authority. Artists used to work for kings and queens, and if they f*cked up they'd get their heads chopped off. They believed in God and were paying tribute to divinity. Today we instead try to "express ourselves" and show that divinity actually exists inside our own bright shining minds. Since we aren't actually divine, we don't have any confidence. Our God then became money, and this wasn't actually so bad, because we were still able to get magical authority from an angel investor, and this would give us enough charisma and power to assemble a team and see a project to completion. Today filmmaking is so financially easy that we don't actually need an investor, and what we lose is the magical authority that came along with the money. We lose the gift of charisma and confidence when we can no longer claim that God, or at least some angels, have ordained us to create art for our community.


3) Parenting styles. Society has no fulfilling role for most parents to take after their kids have left home, so even when the kids physically must leave, the parents still refuse to let them go psychologically. This turns would-be artists into impotent failures who can't tell the truth in their art because they feel a weird, overbearing sense of parental guilt. Ingmar Bergman left home at age 18 and didn't speak with or hear from his parents for 5 years. Today if you run away from home you still have to ignore your mom's texts.
 
For me, whether or not my work ever receives a wide audience is not the point. I have things to say, and film is the medium through which I say them. I have definitely decided not to present my work on the internet, but only to a live audience. There are just too many distractions. It is a wonderful medium for things like BTS, talking about a particular piece of gear that no one else has used, and marketing, but not presentation, unless you are prepared to produce a short film on a weekly basis, impossible for an individual, or even a small company that has no patron. Eventually, all Youtube channels burn out - there are not enough things to say for this kind of medium which swallows everything.
As far as DVXuser is concerned, it is an exceptional resource for professionals just starting out. Yes, the interface is awkward, but that does not kill the deal. The reason there is very little content on art and craft is because the readers have voted with their clicks. But it would be useful to see a video of a film actually being shot. Or perhaps, a video showing a director blocking a scene. You can search youtube for those and you won't find them. This is the kind of real knowledge, as opposed to information, that people who have not gone to film school could use. No Film School does occasionally feature a very useful piece, but for the actual nuts and bolts of casting, directing, makeup, and costume, there is either no interest, or no one willing to present it for free.
 
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silyn said:
Interesting thread. Where have the filmmakers gone... I can tell you about my experience because I'm one of the filmmakers. I'm here - I just don't talk about what I do. Why? Why would I?

I can explain, but please, I don't claim that I'm correct in what I'm saying. It's just how I perceive DVXUser based on my limited experience. And please don't get me wrong - I like DVXUser, I check it every day, and get very useful bits of information and wisdom about equipment and some other things. And when I can contribute to those discussion I post.

But now, let's look at most recent threads just from the top:
- Black Sun Problem on A7s II? Faulty Camera or a whole batch?
- Rodelink Interference problem
- C300: wide angle zoom for C300MK2
- Guess what sound this is....
- Issues with noise on the FS700
- Drop in LED Fresnel upgrade
...
- Just got a new camera - Sony F35 (286 Pages!!!)
....
and it goes on an on and on

There are threads where users talk about their films - if they get any attention, from I've seen, very little attention. Often zero response. I'm not complaining. I understand that Sony F35 deserves that many pages of discussion. That's what users are interested in. Moreover, even recently I've seen a couple of threads where users openly say that DVXUser is about equipment. May be I'm wrong, but I don't see any significant interest here in discussing indie films.

Another thing is I remember that on several occasions users were also openly talking about their reluctance to provide any feedback (one of the things that indie filmmakers would be interested in). Why? For various reasons. Like, why would I? it takes time to watch your crappy film and even more time to write about it. I suspect another reason is the combination of political correctness, ego and some other very human feelings - I got this not from DVXUser but from talking to other fiimmakers (and I simply assume that DVXUser is not immune to the human nature).

Filmmakers are there - and I can assure that it's a vibrant and active community. It's just our reluctance to be exposed to certain things. Yes, there is a YouTube phenomenon and whatever comes with it. But filmmakers are there, please make no mistake about it.

I have to confess, I'm also an investor and spend time on reading financial news among other things. It may seem off topic but here is an article By Therese Poletti I found today on MarketWatch: "How a 'third wave' of Silicon Valley leaders is building the future." And here is a small excerpt from it that seems to show some cultural differences in the two industries:


I don't know Hollywood. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe John Chambers experience is 100% applicable to Hollywood. But it's certainly not a mainstream in Washington DC metro area where I'm.

So, what's next? Nothing. I truly respect and enjoy DVXUser and its members and members' needs and concerns. Many of them dedicate their lives to the difficult craft and art called cinematography and make their living - they simply are too busy to be involved in filmmaking (or discussing indie filmmaking) - an activity that offers very small chances of getting real money. Meanwhile, I'll keep doing what I'm doing (like next weekend two day of extremely complex production) because I love it and because I can (at least for now with my investment business). Some of us will keep hustle others on Craig list and such for help offering a pathetic "exposure" (condemned and ridiculed not once on DVXUser and probably for a good reason - for the record, I, personally, don't use Craig, and most of what I ask is paid jobs).

Anyways, as I said above, I don't claim to be accurate in my assessment - please correct me where you feel I'm wrong.
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keep it simple shoot on film with a film camera super 16mm or 35mm..artistically ...
 
Drew Ott said:
I'll add three more possible reasons people are less interested in making films. These are NOT the only reasons.


1) Socio-sexuality. Robert Rodriguez told us in 1993 to start calling ourselves filmmakers even before we had done anything. So for two decades, every douchebag in thick rimmed glasses was calling himself a filmmaker. Now you're just one douchebag in a sea of douchebags. Women in bars started to hear "filmmaker" and think "unemployed." You sure as f*ck can't support a wife and kids as an aspiring auteur, and now it can't even support a one night stand. I do better with girls telling them I shoot weddings than I do when I say I make movies. At least that means I have an income and my risk of being clinically delusional is a little lower.


2) Magical authority. Artists used to work for kings and queens, and if they f*cked up they'd get their heads chopped off. They believed in God and were paying tribute to divinity. Today we instead try to "express ourselves" and show that divinity actually exists inside our own bright shining minds. Since we aren't actually divine, we don't have any confidence. Our God then became money, and this wasn't actually so bad, because we were still able to get magical authority from an angel investor, and this would give us enough charisma and power to assemble a team and see a project to completion. Today filmmaking is so financially easy that we don't actually need an investor, and what we lose is the magical authority that came along with the money. We lose the gift of charisma and confidence when we can no longer claim that God, or at least some angels, have ordained us to create art for our community.


3) Parenting styles. Society has no fulfilling role for most parents to take after their kids have left home, so even when the kids physically must leave, the parents still refuse to let them go psychologically. This turns would-be artists into impotent failures who can't tell the truth in their art because they feel a weird, overbearing sense of parental guilt. Ingmar Bergman left home at age 18 and didn't speak with or hear from his parents for 5 years. Today if you run away from home you still have to ignore your mom's texts.
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THIS is the best thing I've read all day.
 
Drew Ott, The second point is a lot more questionable. a lot of artists and great ones in the past were unknown until their death and sometimes way after. Thoses were not working for kings , they did art because they have to, ( or to eat ). Filmmaking, telling stories with pictures and sound is << easy >> nowadays, like you said. Ok it is easy like it was to write when you could afford an inkwell, as easy as painting when you could afford brushes. art is a process and come from constraints. what are u (we) talking about true Filmmaking ( art ) or masses ( king ) entertainment ? So the loss of magical authority even the loss of angels investors is not a reason to not doing art or at least not a reason to stop thinking about it and discuss about it on this great forum.
+100 for first and third point, our modern world is not designed to produce or reveal the artist inside of all human.
 
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Dvxuser started as a tech site focused on one camera, and expanded to more. But I don't think it can ever successfully have a screenwriting forum or story forum or whatever, because I don't think that's something particularly suited to the medium. Gear is technical and "objective" to some degree - you can either get it to do what you want or not, and that's knowledge that's easily shared. That's super suitable to a message board format. But the moment art enters into it, there is too much subjectivity and individual taste, and requires too much in the way of background explanation and too much writing - not suited for this medium. Take a borderline case - the cinematography forum... you'll find a lot of "how can I shoot this scenario" or "how to light this" or broadly technical things that have more definite answers, and you'll find many fewer discussions of the artistic effect of lighting... again, because one can be settled quickly with facts, and the other is a matter of taste. So the bottom line is: gear discussions are far more productive and more suited to discussing on a message board; screenwriting and art and story and so forth - not as suited (except for technical stuff, like "when do I write "off screen" vs "off camera"? etc.).

Now, it might be better suited to discussing actually completed work, such as the user forum, but there is a terrible problem here. First, most of the work is very, very bad - not surprising, because Sturgeon's Law applies to art in particular ("90% of everything is crap"). Who wants to comment on really bad work? But there is an even worse problem - crappy attitude of those seeking feedback and comment. The submitter gets mightily offended and flames anyone who is not 100% pat-on-the-back. It takes time commitment and effort to watch the work and write thoughtful feedback and after you do all that work, you get nasty posts from the submitter. Just. Not. Worth. It. So in answer to the question "why can't we have nice things (like comments and feedback etc.)" - "well, that's why we can't have nice things" - there is massive disincentive. It speaks to a lack of understanding - I mean, if you disagree with the feedback, just keep it to yourself, problem solved! No need to attack the guy giving you his time and attention. Take from it what you need, and discard what you don't - but ARGUE against the audience's reaction, and INSULT them? Wow. I felt it was a good thing to give feedback, because as anyone who has dealt with hollywood knows, the hardest thing to get is to get read, get your work seen, get acknowledged and get feedback. And I've been brutally attacked often enough, that I just gave up - then a few months pass and I try again... and there it is again. Not from everyone, but too often. Recently I and one other poster really tried to give feedback to someone who was asking for it, and then the asker got super offended and basically "I'm not interested in your opinion", and had the whole thread removed by a moderator... there went all our efforts. Thanks, but no thanks.

So guess what - folks will congregate in gear threads. At least those are useful to everyone.

But there is another thing that's very true:

Curtis Mack said:
[...]As far as DVXuser is concerned, it is an exceptional resource for professionals just starting out. Yes, the interface is awkward, but that does not kill the deal. The reason there is very little content on art and craft is because the readers have voted with their clicks. But it would be useful to see a video of a film actually being shot. Or perhaps, a video showing a director blocking a scene. You can search youtube for those and you won't find them. This is the kind of real knowledge, as opposed to information, that people who have not gone to film school could use. No Film School does occasionally feature a very useful piece, but for the actual nuts and bolts of casting, directing, makeup, and costume, there is either no interest, or no one willing to present it for free.
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Really valuable knowledge outside of gear is not transmitted. People will ask questions about "can I film this" "copyright", "license", "trademark" and various legal questions, but really nobody can give a good answer, because that's why lawyers exist - it costs money. You won't get it for free on a messageboard. How to use a piece of gear, sure. But filmmaking is so much more than about gear - and all that other stuff may simply not be suitable to being discussed on a message board, whether makeup or costumes or the business side of it nitty gritty. Which is why dvxuser has a million threads about gear, and not so much other stuff.

Why fewer filmmakers? Humbly: I have some hunches, and some suspicions and some theories, but I can't say "I know why". I mean, there are still tons of crappy films made every year that never get seen by anyone except family and friends at best, so I'd guess feature film making activity is not really dropping off. Why do fewer of 'em come to dvxuser - not sure, but maybe some of the reasons I gave above apply (not a good medium for getting feedback, or for discussing art). Of course, maybe it really is a different crowd these days, but this sounds more like "kids these days, get off my lawn". I suspect there are still equal numbers of young people who like making films, and even if the old guard has burned out, there's always fresh blood coming. In the end: I'm really not sure! Hey, at least I admit not knowing, rather than making up "deep" theories about society and artists and the shape of the universe.
 
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I think money is still very tight right now. As an example, I have a friend who is a very well known actor that was a lead in a movie which ran out of money, so it has yet to be released. Sad because it's some of his best work, but there is a good chance nobody will ever see it. Unfortunately this happens more than folks realize.
 
I'm fairly young for these boards (I'm 26). I average about 1 to 3 personal works a year (mostly narrative) and all of them have been logistical nightmares haha. They get made, just poorly because of budgeting issues. I love to do it, I just don't love to show it.
 
My guess?

I think a lot of it comes down the accessibility and affordability of large-sensor camera technology these days. Back in the day when I first started lurking forums like DVXuser, people were jumping on things like 35mm adapters, attempting to figure out how the hell they might access a filmic aesthetic for their short films/independent projects.

The 5DII changed all that, and brought large-sensor video to the masses.

As the technical barriers to entry dropped. The need for would-be filmmakers to seek out the kind of technical answers you used to only find on tech-minded forums fell.

I work primarily as a cinematographer, so the technical component of the job keeps me coming back to learn more. But being a cinematographer, I work with LOTS of different writers, directors and producers - and I can certainly tell you that very few would have ANY interest in spending their time on forums. Those crafts are simply very different from the more technically minded aspects of production.
 
yeah but at the low budget/amateur level many times the director and cinematographer are one and the same (i certainly was both), so it still follows they would post here ("what tamron lens for pie-centric torture porn?")
 
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