When will Macbook Pro be able to handle AVC Intra 100

J

jameswmulryan

Active member
OK, so we have this fabulous new format on the 300, 2000, 3000 and P2 Varicams - AVC Intra 100
Rumors have a 4 core MacBook Pro coming out, Leopard is coming out FCP 3 is coming out, this might add up to AVC Intra 100 editing on a Mac laptop by the end of 2009?
Has Panasonic and Apple decided to hold hands on this one?
Please do not suggest PC alternatives. Mac Laptops totally rule the portable editing realm. I know Panasonic makes a PC laptop, could this have any influence on Apple/Panasonic collaborations?
PS Barry you rule, please become a Mac evangelista!!!
 
Puredrifting, thanks for the info.
are you editing ProRes HQ? Are you using an AJA IO HD
What are you transcode times going from AVC Intra 100 to ProRes? ie how long would it take to
transcode 16G of material. 16G of DVCPROHD 720 24pn takes 8 minutes on my Macbook Pro
Are you using a RAID?
 
I just did some quick tests with Jan's 1080p MXF kart footage on my MBP (2.53ghz, 4Gbram) and everything seems to work fine. AVC-I was transferred to Prores HQ. Sure, it was longer to transcode than DVCPRO-HD, but Prores HQ files are larger than DVCPRO-HD files...
 
Minh:

So you can edit 1080p Pro Res HQ in FCP on a MacBook Pro, no dropped frames, no audio issues?

What kind of drives are you using?
 
I never tried Pro Res HQ, I have been told several times by editors and compositors who work at a much higher level than I do, that HQ is overkill for most uses, which I agree, based upon data rates. Unlike the prevailing wisdom that many users have, "I need the ultimate quality at all costs", I subscribe to the "use a working resolution that matches how your video will be exhibited" and very little of my footage is shown in theaters. AVC Intra 100 looks beautiful when transcoded to Pro Res.

But regular Pro Res is simple. It took about the same amount of time to transcode the AVC Intra 100 to Pro Res as it takes to ingest regular DVC Pro HD.
 
jameswmulryan said:
this might add up to AVC Intra 100 editing on a Mac laptop by the end of 2009?
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Why wait? You can do it today, if you just install Avid Media Composer.
Or you can do it in 4 days (or less, if they keep to their schedule), if you install Adobe CS4 with the 4.1 update. (4.1 update supposed to be downloadable by the end of this month)

Or you can do it today, if you install the Calibrated MXF importer.

Has Panasonic and Apple decided to hold hands on this one?
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Apple has apparently decided that they don't have to bother supporting camcorder formats. They think they're too big for that, and that all camcorder manufacturers must now bow to their demands. And the sad thing is, JVC did. And folks think that's actually a good thing! It's insane; JVC comes out with direct quicktime file recording, and everyone's all like "finally! How wonderful is this! native editing right from the camera's recorded media! Just plug in the card and edit!" and I'm like "where have you guys been for the last three years... native editing right from the camera's recorded media is STANDARD on just about EVERY OTHER EDITOR. Plug an SxS card into EDIUS and edit. Plug an SDHC card into Vegas and edit. Plug a P2 card into Premiere Pro and edit.

Sigh.

PS Barry you rule, please become a Mac evangelista!!!
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Meh, can't. I've tried a few times, and it's just not compatible with my philosophy. I find the whole thing way too limiting. Whenever someone tells me "It's my way or the highway", I will always take the highway, every time, no questions asked and not a single moment wasted, gladly and quickly and as fast as I can. Apple's all about "it's my way or nothing", so -- no way. Buh-bye.
 
I have been of FCP since it was beta and newly formed from Macromedia. It is a good overall package but I must agree that Apple as of late has basically decided to ignore all of their Pro Apps including FCS. The whole line but especially FCP are way overdue for a facelift, native AVC Intra, AVCHD, etc.

It's kind of like iTunes, iPhones and the App store have basically taken all of Apple's attention and effort for the past couple of years and FCS is being passed by by just about everyone. I still use it because I know it inside out and it is a good editing tool but it is feeling very long in the tooth.

Dan
 
For all that I know (and I know a little bit) Apple makes more money selling mp3s and ipods than any other product put together.

I have been a FCP user from the very start too and I also have the impression that Apple has been neglecting the Pro Apps department.
They lost an incredible amount of money with 'Aperture' and I don't think they are willing to invest much more on FCP which is lagging behind everyday. Too bad!
 
btw, Apple hardware is not what it used to be, but it's still incredibly stable and reliable.
And the OS is by far the best thing out there.
 
'FCS is being passed by by just about everyone. I still use it because I know it inside out and it is a good editing tool but it is feeling very long in the tooth. '

????? What other app would you use ... Avid... (no thanks been there done that)..
Premier (nobody going to take you seriously)... Vegas or Edius (well you might as well live on a desert island)...

For all it's flaw's FCP Studio has by far the best bang for buck... when they include Color as a filter within FCP (which I think will be soon) it will also be a pretty sweet editing setup..
 
Yeah, say what you will about FCP but it is what most people use. AVID is still legit for now but dying quickly. There is no way I could expect to stay working if I used vegas, edius, premiere, etc. Compatibility with other editors in my market is a must. If that means I have to convert some types of footage to prores to edit, so be it. It is a great format. Luckily I am making money editing so my client pays for that time spent.
 
I am not saying that FCP isn't good, it is, it's great. I am editing a web project right now with it as I type this.

But there are a lot of things that have needed revision and attention for years (Media Mangler, Color is great but interface is not so good, basic interface is ancient, underlying Carbon architecture is outdated, lots of little idiosyncrocies and weirdness that you have to just deal with, P2 log and transfer wonkiness with unlinked and incomplete files, etc.)

If I wasn't using FCS, it would be AVID. I work half in entertainment and half in corporate. In entertainment in many areas, AVID is still taken much more serously than FCS. In corporate, they generally could care less what I use, I could be using iMovie.

I definitely agree that FCS is the best value out there for the Mac and media wrangling of all kinds, thats why I use it. But the competition has a lot of features that are superior and if Apple wants to continue to dominate the market, they need to step it up a few notches to keep up.

Dan
 
Apple has apparently decided that they don't have to bother supporting camcorder formats. They think they're too big for that, and that all camcorder manufacturers must now bow to their demands.
Click to expand...

I have to respectfully disagree with Barry here. There are reports that a Panny rep is assisting Apple on the next release of the NLE suite. I don't know if that is true, but it has been reported I believe as early as IBC last year.

Also reported at IBC is native support for AVCIntra in the next version of FCS?

As to native AVCHD support, I to argue for that approach. But native AVCHD for full resolution, RT, full fps editing will invariably require a new, and very powerful computer. To me there paying that price for RT native editing, when invariably your delivery format will be something else does have much value..

I think a better approach is to get the footage to intraframe as quickly as possible.

It provides easier editing, grading, and eventually you have to deliver it in a format other than AVCHD.

FCP, like every NLE out there on either platform, has its positives and negatives.

Pick your tool based on what you see as the workflow that works for you.

best
 
There are reports that a Panny rep is assisting Apple on the next release. I don't know if that is true, but it has been reported
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And I have no doubt that it will be there. But I would be shocked, surprised, floored, blown away, gobsmacked, and otherwise be taken quite unawares if they actually support the camcorder format as it is. Will there be native MXF support? Without it, it doesn't really change all that much. If they continue to demand conversion to quicktime, then I continue to have no interest in switching to their approach. The conversion to quicktime places a wall between the user and their footage. It serves no valid purpose for the user. It only serves apple's interest. I don't really feel like paying a bunch of money to serve the vendor's interest. You want my dough, you'll do it my way, not the other way around. :thumbsup:

Talking about Apple as if it had a personality doesn't make much sense to me.
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I talk about it "as if it has a personality" because that's how it was explained to me: Apple has a mission and a goal, they want to enforce that Quicktime becomes THE one and only universal file format for all things media related. Which is why, when it was pointed out clearly enough, I began to lose serious interest in them. They require DVCPRO-HD to be converted to quicktime. Why? No good reason, certainly no reason that supports the user, it's for THEM, not for you. They are supposed to add AVC-I from what I've heard, but it will still require a conversion to Quicktime. Why? Because they say so. Not because there's any benefit to the end user. They may or may not add AVCHD support, but if they do, I am willing to bet it won't be as a direct file, it'll once again require converting to Quicktime. Why? Don't know. Nobody else requires that.

From what I understand, this is a directive that is being enforced on the FCS programmers whether they'd want to do it that way or not. It is a higher-level directive in an attempt to make Quicktime universal.

Why do you think talking about Apple "as if it has a personality" makes no sense? I mean, some things are obvious. Apple eschews user-interchangeable batteries. They like to put in batteries that last about a year, so that you have to replace otherwise perfectly-working equipment (meaning, buy more). They did away with interchangeable batteries on the iPod, they avoided them on the iPhone, and now they've even gone and replaced user-interchangeable batteries on the latest Macbook laptops. There is clearly a mindset, from the top down, that says "get rid of interchangeable batteries." Does this serve the end customer? No, in no discernable way. Hence another reason why I am not tempted by their products.

Panasonic has a "personality" -- they hold to certain tenets that you can find throughout their product line (format compatibility, using the same tape/media regardless of format, etc). Sony certainly has a personality, and largely it's all about "we control the media, we make media and keep it proprietary", etc. There are guiding philosophies established at the top levels of management that permeate throughout how a company operates. If we refer to it as a "personality", well, what else should we call it?

Regardless, the whole discussion started here because james wanted me to become a Mac guru. I have laid out my reasons why that is just not going to happen. Nobody has to agree with me, feel free to pursue your own course however you feel best.
 
I wasn't referring to you Barry specifically and I actually deleted that reference because it didn't make sense. What I am trying to say is that I don't see a single person directing anything at Apple with regard its proapps.

I'm not fan of the QT or the highway approach that Apple follows.

But I also believe that native support of every format out there doesn't occur for any NLE on any platform.

The cam companies ought to be blamed as much as the NLE companies.

As to Panasonic having a "personality," I don't think so.

It is as much culpable for not supporting on parity Mac computers as Apple is for not support native imports.

I don't think there is much of an argument there.

As you becoming a Mac guru.

Where do I sign the petition?

best
 
Panasonic's Mac support is certainly nothing to crow about! You're absolutely right on that, and even though I am not a Mac user, I recognize that a whole huge massive chunk of DVXUsers are, and they deserve equal support. I've written many times and bent many ears of factory folks to explain to them that the current situation just isn't satisfactory.

I guess "personality" is the wrong word; "governing philosophy" is probably the better choice. I like Panasonic's lineup because they say "whatever you want, that's what we'll give you"; I don't like Sony's or Apple's attitudes of "whatever's good for us, that's what we'll give you."

Notice there is no reflection on any individual user or their preferences here; please feel free to be happy with whatever you're happy with, and make your choices based on whatever criteria you prioritize.
 
From the brief experience I had with ingesting footage in FCP, it seems like it transcodes the footage to Prores 4:2:2, and niot Prores HQ 4:2:2. There's a difference there...
 
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