When is Adobe support for FS700 and Odyssey 7q coming?

Hi Mitch,

Can you clarify something? You mentioned that Sony has given Convergent full access to FS700 RAW. So does that mean that the 7Q will be able to record Sony Compressed RAW soon?

Freiheit mentioned that the FS700 RAW from the Sony R5 recorder works well with Premiere (no color issues) and it seems to be much lighter (it's compressed RAW) and that he can edit RAW directly in Premiere on his Mac Laptop.

If this is the case, seems like Sony RAW would be the way to go and that way those of us who prefer Adobe can nix Resolve from our workflow. Seems like it would be easier on the 7Q end since the FS700 RAW wouldn't have to be converted to Cinema DNGs.
 
"Did they not promise compatibility in the latest CC update?

When is that coming?"

Yes they did. I heard it will be out any day (who knows what any day means though).
 
I have a workflow question, forgive me if this is the wrong threat to post in.

My question relates to transferring footage alone. Since I often shoot 4k2HD in conjunction with 120fps 2k RAW and 240FPS 2k RAW, I am looking for an efficient way to transfer and check my files. Currently, I copy all the files from both SSD's to my PC. Then, I move any RAIDed folders (SSD, SSD2) to their own RAW folder. I then run the CDClipMerger application which combines the RAIDed files into single folders. Great. Next, I use the CDProResTransfer tool to join any separated ProRes files. This is fine but then any 120fps clips in 2K raw still reside in a folder that has no indication that there is RAW DNG's in it (120FPS does not require the drives to be RAIDed). It looks like every other ProRes folder. Since the CDProResTransfer tool does not copy these RAW folders over, I am always weary that I will lose some files in the transfer, or some will get left behind.

Any words of advice on this matter?
Thank you!
 
can someone post the link to the adobe codec download here when the fix is available. i cant wait till its fixed aswell , im glad it will happen any day now
 
gene_can_sing said:
Hi Mitch,

Can you clarify something? You mentioned that Sony has given Convergent full access to FS700 RAW. So does that mean that the 7Q will be able to record Sony Compressed RAW soon?

Freiheit mentioned that the FS700 RAW from the Sony R5 recorder works well with Premiere (no color issues) and it seems to be much lighter (it's compressed RAW) and that he can edit RAW directly in Premiere on his Mac Laptop.

If this is the case, seems like Sony RAW would be the way to go and that way those of us who prefer Adobe can nix Resolve from our workflow. Seems like it would be easier on the 7Q end since the FS700 RAW wouldn't have to be converted to Cinema DNGs.
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In a word, no.

I believe I have noted this, but perhaps I was not clear enough in my explanation. It was news to us so I needed to restate what I had indicated earlier.

he FS700 uses a unique structure for its RAW encoding. It isn't anything terribly complicated or strange, but it is unique.

Convergent Design takes this compressed RAW structure and extracts it to a standard uncompressed RAW file structure, which we then record as Cinmea DNG files. All good so far.

For their solution, Sony takes the FS700 compressed RAW and feeds it to the HXR-IFR5 dock. This box is not just a pass-thru device. It takes that FS700 RAW compressed file and transforms it into the RAW compressed file used by the F5 and F55 cameras. This allows the files to then be captured on the R5 recorder, which docks to the HXR-IFR5.

For Convergent Design to transform the FS700 RAW files into F5/55 RAW files and do so in realtime as one is shooting would also take an outside box. There ismply isn't the processing available inside the Odyssey7Q.

The Sony post programs are designed for use with the files coming out of the Sony recorders. So we are not able to be compatible with this workflow.
 
thanks for clarification, Mitch.

As you mentioned there will be support for F5/55 in future, will there also be uncompressed RAW files only from these cameras?
 
Clermond said:
thanks for clarification, Mitch.

As you mentioned there will be support for F5/55 in future, will there also be uncompressed RAW files only from these cameras?
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We cannot physically access the RAW files from the F5 and F55. These cameras use a proprietary buss connection to attach their RAW recorder.

The Odyssey7Q will accept the 4K video signal off the SDI monioring outputs and record this as 4K video, compressed in a popular codec. We will also match file naming conventions from the camera as this is embedded in the SDI stream. Use of the Odyssey7Q will also provide the camera with a true 4K waveform and other tools; the next available 4K waveform costs more than $20,000. And as 4K video out of the F55 consumes all four SDI ports, it is useful to use the Odyssey's built in feature of taking the 4K in and outputting a realtime HD downconvert signal over two SDI outputs and one HDMI output for downstream monitoring.
 
Mitch Gross said:
For their solution, Sony takes the FS700 compressed RAW and feeds it to the HXR-IFR5 dock. This box is not just a pass-thru device. It takes that FS700 RAW compressed file and transforms it into the RAW compressed file used by the F5 and F55 cameras. This allows the files to then be captured on the R5 recorder, which docks to the HXR-IFR5.
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Thanks for the expiation Mitch, that makes sense now.

I have one more question. Right now, the 7Q takes the FS700 compressed RAW and transforms it into un-compressed RAW. Can the 7Q do what the HXR dock does and transforms the compressed RAW into COMPRESSED Cinema DNG RAW? To leave it in a compressed state and skip the un-compressing part? Or is that just too much processing power and that's the reason why we have un-compressed RAW.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, is it possible to for the 7Q to just record the RAW in it's compressed state? I'm not worried about it becoming F5/F55 type RAW as I'm fine with Cinema DNG.
 
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MaverickLTD said:
I have a workflow question, forgive me if this is the wrong threat to post in.

My question relates to transferring footage alone. Since I often shoot 4k2HD in conjunction with 120fps 2k RAW and 240FPS 2k RAW, I am looking for an efficient way to transfer and check my files. Currently, I copy all the files from both SSD's to my PC. Then, I move any RAIDed folders (SSD, SSD2) to their own RAW folder. I then run the CDClipMerger application which combines the RAIDed files into single folders. Great. Next, I use the CDProResTransfer tool to join any separated ProRes files. This is fine but then any 120fps clips in 2K raw still reside in a folder that has no indication that there is RAW DNG's in it (120FPS does not require the drives to be RAIDed). It looks like every other ProRes folder. Since the CDProResTransfer tool does not copy these RAW folders over, I am always weary that I will lose some files in the transfer, or some will get left behind.

Any words of advice on this matter?
Thank you!
Click to expand...
I use the following quick method to sort the dailies:
1- Transfer all files into the same folder on the computer
2- run the CDClipMerger
3- sort your view by date (all folders are new created now)
4- put the new created (2K Slowmo) into a new folder "2K_Slowmo_DNG"
5- In DaVinci Resolve: open, correct and export it as ProRes into "2K_Slowmo_ProRes"

(6- I personally like to have all ProRes files not stored in separate folder – simply search for *.MOV and put the result into a separate folder)

@gene: I also would love to see compressed DNG recorded – compressing it later takes a lot of time.
 
"can someone post the link to the adobe codec download here when the fix is available. i cant wait till its fixed as well , im glad it will happen any day now"

It will probably only be included in the new versions of CC programs. I doubt it will be a separate downloaded codec.
 
gene_can_sing said:
Thanks for the expiation Mitch, that makes sense now.

I have one more question. Right now, the 7Q takes the FS700 compressed RAW and transforms it into un-compressed RAW. Can the 7Q do what the HXR dock does and transforms the compressed RAW into COMPRESSED Cinema DNG RAW? To leave it in a compressed state and skip the un-compressing part? Or is that just too much processing power and that's the reason why we have un-compressed RAW.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, is it possible to for the 7Q to just record the RAW in it's compressed state? I'm not worried about it becoming F5/F55 type RAW as I'm fine with Cinema DNG.
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Codecs don't work that way.

Every compression algorithm is different. The ONLY thing that can be done with a compressed format is to first de-compress it. Then it is on to the next step.

Everything the Odyssey7Q does has to happen in real time. We measure the time it takes to accomplish tasks in milliseconds and microseconds. We cannot reliably decompress this signal and then recompress it in the time available with the computing horsepower available. Not in 4K at up to 60p or 2K at up to 240p. And no, don't ask "what about only up to 24p" or something like that. It is simply not going to happen.

Sony can do it because they built a device soley to accomplish this one task. And it turned out to be a bit of a beast in order to make it happen.

Also, compressed Cinema DNG is not the same as either of the Sony compression formats. It's fine when Sony does it because they are essentially parallel processes -- they dismantle one and then basically recreate it with minimal additional loss. This is not the same as going from a Sony compression to a Cinema DNG compression. Concatenation would occur.

Here's a brief explanation of CONCATENATION:
http://www.convergent-design.com/Su.../On-Compression-Codecs-and-Concatenation.aspx


Suffice to say, this is not going to be something available in the Odyssey7Q.
 
rejdmast said:
"can someone post the link to the adobe codec download here when the fix is available. i cant wait till its fixed as well , im glad it will happen any day now"

It will probably only be included in the new versions of CC programs. I doubt it will be a separate downloaded codec.
Click to expand...
Info about the Adobe updates have been posted by them on their website and forum. It has been made quite clear for some time that these and future updates are for the Creative Cloud. That's sort of the whole point of CC.
 
Hey Mitch,

Thanks for the explanation. Now it's very clear. Well, I'm sure the 4K Pro-Res will be really awesome and I'm looking forward to that.
 
I'm confused, what needs to be updated on Adobe for it to work? I'm using the dng's in after effects...
 
dapoopta said:
I'm confused, what needs to be updated on Adobe for it to work? I'm using the dng's in after effects...
Click to expand...

Not sure about After Effects, but in Premiere the colorspace is still off. Not like it was before when everything was green or super fuchsia, but it's still off.
 
So what's the deal? Why is it taking them so long to update premiere? I started this post in January....
 
ilnow said:
So what's the deal? Why is it taking them so long to update premiere? I started this post in January....
Click to expand...

Not sure, but they psyched me out today with an email that said "check out the new features in creative cloud!" I thought the update they announced 5 weeks ago at NAB had come out, but nope! Nothing yet.
 
I believe last year's NAB announcement took some six months to release, but I'm told this one should come a lot sooner than that.
 
Hi Mitch,

For myself I just wish there was a good LUT to transcode RAW from Resolve. Currently, NONE of the S-Log LUTs make the RAW footage look like 4K2HD. It's always off no matter what. You can get somewhat in the ballpark with by using the BMD color space and BMD Gamma, but anything else and the color red is just super off.

I do know this is extremely difficult for some reason. Myself and Paul Curtis have been sending files to the main developer at a Cine picture profile company who makes excellent Picture profiles and he can't even figure out a LUT to match 7Q Cinema DNGs to 4K2HD and he tried really hard. I know Paul has been doing a lot as well.

Is there anyway that you guys can make an S-Log LUT that just matches RAW to 4K2HD? It's proving to be an impossible task.
 
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